Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[Sgt_D]

Sup boys, I'm stuck and need some assistance.

Soldier X is informed by his career manager that he has to take a X crs to go from MCpl to Sgt.

Solder X declines.

Soldier X informed that his career within the CF may be terminated.

What CFAO / DOAD / QR&O is associated with this?

So far I've only been able to come up with CFAO 49-4 (CAREER POLICY ON NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS REGULAR FORCE) Sect 40C. but it does not state anywhere that the member could be terminated from the forces or a time frame.

Any help would be appreciated. Cheers.

 

[jeffb]

Are you sure that he meant terminated as in release or just that his future career prospects would be terminated. ie. no change of getting the course in the future and therefore, no chance for promotion?

 

[Sgt_D]

Are you sure that he meant terminated as in release or just that his future career prospects would be terminated. ie. no change of getting the course in the future and therefore, no chance for promotion?

Exact words from the manager are that X will have to submitt a request for cease career progression thru his CoC
. I assume this cat means that his contract will not be offered for renewal nor will he be considered for future X crses.

 

[dogger1936]

Exact words from the manager are that X will have to submitt a request for cease career progression thru his CoC
. I assume this cat means that his contract will not be offered for renewal nor will he be considered for future X crses.

SgtD

No this doesn't mean he get's released. A few years back we had a few older type Cpl's hanging about and after years of attrition were course loaded on their PLQ. Not wanting the responsibility (or to  show their incompetence). They had to write a memo stating they wished to cease career progression. This kept them in the bottom third pile and ensured their names were not coming up for future courses and landing another guy on crse last minute. All mbrs remained in the forces from what I have seen.

We also had a Mcpl who was near release date (1 year) and was looking to ride out his final time. He had to submit a memo ceasing career progression when he turned down his 6A for no other reason than "I don't want to".

 

[aesop081]

I have a subordinate who will never get beyond MS, at his request. He does  not want to move or assume the responsibilities.

No problems keeping him in.

 

[GAP]

That may have been the case awhile back, but with the forced attrition I keep hearing about, could it not become a factor?  :dunno:

 

[PuckChaser]

Exact words from the manager are that X will have to submitt a request for cease career progression thru his CoC
. I assume this cat means that his contract will not be offered for renewal nor will he be considered for future X crses.

You found the right CFAO. He can refuse a career course or posting, it gets deferred. He'll get another shot to take the course or decline, then he's subject to an Admin Review with which one of the outcomes could be release. As CDN Aviator pointed out, another outcome could be retained but no longer offered any career courses. Your MCpl better be prepared for both of those outcomes.

 

[Sgt_D]

awesome thanks all.

The reason X cannot do the course is he's a single parent now. Solid dude. Just wanted to find the reference so he can plan to fight it if the Admin review goes South. According to the CFAO and DOAD the Redress of Grievence process covers it in the event he disagrees with the decision.

Again, thx for being quicker then my Coy Clk

 

[dogger1936]

awesome thanks all.

The reason X cannot do the course is he's a single parent now. Solid dude. Just wanted to find the reference so he can plan to fight it if the Admin review goes South. According to the CFAO and DOAD the Redress of Grievence process covers it in the event he disagrees with the decision.

Again, thx for being quicker then my Coy Clk

Him not being able to go for that reason should be deferred by a simple talk to the SSM. If that's the only reason the RSM should be able to sort that out with the career mangler with a phone call. No reason to stop his career due to a temporary personal problem.

 

[GAP]

Him not being able to go for that reason should be deferred by a simple talk to the SSM. If that's the only reason the RSM should be able to sort that out with the career mangler with a phone call. No reason to stop his career due to a temporary personal problem.

That makes a lot more sense....

 

[dapaterson]

Use of language is crucial in this case.  Make sure that your solider asks to defer the course - that is, take it later instead of now, and then provide the reason together with when he anticipates being able to take it.  Declining the course means he doesn't want it.  Deferring means he wants it, but can not do it right now.

 

[cdnrn]

Good day everyone,

My question is in regards to the EPZ date of a member. I do not have DWAN access at the present time so I am unable to see the latest regulations with respects to this topic. From the search in this forum I have come across  the reference CFAO 11-6 -- COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY -OFFICERS -REGULAR FORCE".  I see that a member will be at the rank of Lieutenant for 2 years before entering EPZ to captain. On review of my latest MPRR, I see that the date for my EPZ is  24-sep-2014, three years after enrollment. I am a Nursing Officer (NO) who was simultaneously promoted to Lt. upon graduation from basic back dated to enrollment date (12-sept-2011). While I understand that each and every member may have different circumstances, I'm under the understanding that promotion to captain in general is "time in".

Thank you for your time,

 

[Shamrock]

Never read policy in isolation.

Whilst I don't know it by heart, I do know it says members who are silmutaneously promoted to Lt must spend three years as an Lt after their date of promotion.

 

[DAA]

CFAO 11-6 Annex B deals with promotions for Nursing Officers.  Promotion to Capt is based on the minimum time in rank requirements as shown in Appendix 1.  I believe the minimum time in your case will be 3 years in the rank of Lt  but can go as high as 6.  You will have to get access to a DWAN computer to look at the CFAO to see which column applies to your personal circumstances.

 

[mitsulance]

Hello,

I was wondering if Naval Operators (NCI OP, NES OP, SONAR OP) reach LS before the end of their 4 year VIE? I understand that there can be an extended period of time during the PAT phase when waiting for clearance, but on average, do operators reach LS rank before they have to sign a CE or IE?

Thanks and Happy Dominion Day!

 

[Occam]

You actually require 2 years 6 months service to be promoted to AB, and 4 years service to be promoted to LS (disregarding advance promotion).  Since you're usually offered your new contract some time before your contract actually expires, it's pretty unlikely that you'll see your LS unless you accept new terms of service.  Advance promotions to LS typically aren't offered to those who have declined further TOS.

 

[mitsulance]

You actually require 2 years 6 months service to be promoted to AB, and 4 years service to be promoted to LS (disregarding advance promotion).  Since you're usually offered your new contract some time before your contract actually expires, it's pretty unlikely that you'll see your LS unless you accept new terms of service.  Advance promotions to LS typically aren't offered to those who have declined further TOS.

4 years total service correct?

Also, is there is a difference in benefits to those that release at the end of their VIE, through right of release, in comparison to those that sign a CE and then apply for release at the end of their 4 years?

I think I'm mainly confused since I'm looking at the pay scale hoping that there is some sort of direct correlation between time in a position and pay. Since OS and AB are both at the private level (one trained) and since it only goes up to 3 years, that usually people get promoted to LS by the 4th year.

 

[medicineman]

4 years total service correct?

Also, is there is a difference in benefits to those that release at the end of their VIE, through right of release, in comparison to those that sign a CE and then apply for release at the end of their 4 years?

4 years total service.  Now, unless things have chnaged somewhat since I got out a year ago, the odds of you getting a CE after your Basic Engagement is nigh on impossible...it's generally something that you get after an IE is complete.  If you're in one of those trades, I'd be surprised if you weren't on a longer BE to be honest, due to the length of time it takes to get trained...

MM

 

[mitsulance]

My apologizes, I misread the TOS Sequence by Occupation document. It appears that all of the naval operator trades don't have anything listed in the CE column and that after the 4 years you would have to sign a IE25.

But still, is there a difference in benefits when you release at the end of the 4 years compared to the sign a IE25 contract and then apply for release?

 

[Occam]

But still, is there a difference in benefits when you release at the end of the 4 years compared to the sign a IE25 contract and then apply for release?

Your best bet is to look on the DWAN for your local BPSO website.  On it, you should find the Powerpoint slides from the most recent SCAN seminar, which would summarize the benefits you would get on release very nicely.  They would break down how the benefits compare depending on the release item.