Hi I need help with what may happen to my carrier. I am a Cpl and have just been told that I will most likely merit low enough this October to get promoted. I just got posted to my new unit and love it there. If I get promoted there wouldn't be a spot for me and I'd have to be posted out. So what I'm asking is can I, and if I can what would happen to my carrier if I was to what to stay and defer my promotion.
Promotions in the CAF [Merged]
- Thread starter Soldier of Fortune
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punch your OC right in the face...that should do the trick
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aesop081
Guest
LieutenantPrivate said:
Do you have anything useful to say or is this the limit of what you have to offer ?
Towards_the_gap
Sr. Member
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Herb said:
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LieutenantPrivate said:
Uncalled for ...... you are being watched now lad.
MILNET.CA MENTOR
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Towards_the_gap said:
That may be a little drastic. Although it's not common, I believe a member can turn down 1 promotion without negative career consequences. Turning down another one triggers the AR process. PM me and I'll find the ref when I'm in to work on Tues.
Herb said:
As an outsider, the first thing that came to mind was "how do you know you will be posted out for sure?".
Have you actually asked or just listened to barracks talk or scuttlebutt?
Is being posted out necessarily a bad thing. There's a reason why you are being considered for promotion....go with it....enjoy it.
:2c:
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LieutenantPrivate said:
Keep it up and you will be banned. Welcome to the first rung of that ladder.
Milnet.Ca Staff
I'm in the cook trade and this is not just talk. I was told by my Sgt. that if I do get promoted that there is not Cpl spots open for me and that I'll be posted out. He told me that he looked at my file and that I should get promoted next year. As I have just got posted to this new unit. I'd like to stay for more than a year. It took me a long time to get this posting. I just don't want to screw my carrier if I turn down the promotion. Just want to know if anyone out there has turn one down or know what will happen if that is what I tell the carrier manager.
MJP
Army.ca Fixture
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Herb said:
I would honestly write a memo stating exactly what you are saying here. Be honest and frank with your CoC and you may just be surprised to see that they can work out something that benefits both you and the CF.
In my experience I have worked with and been in charge of quite a few Cpls that have chosen to stay Cpls. There is nothing wrong with it. These folks IMHO are a strong part of the core of the CF and are just as valuable as those that choose to go further up the chain. The ones I know that have decided later in their careers to go forth and do leadership training haven't been hindered by their earlier decisions.
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aesop081
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Herb said:
MJP has valid points but i would like to add the other view.
Your situation is not uncommon and reflects reality. Embrace it and take the posting if and when it comes. Further to that, stuff they talk about now is just that - talk. Allot can happen in one year and the "no spot for you" situation can change in a heartbeat.
I first was told i was posted out of my last unit in 2008. I did not leave until 2011. I was told i would be at my current location for 3 years, i am leaving after 11 months. "posting talk" is just that until an actual message shows up.
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Furthermore, a posting doesn't happen until your F&E are packed, loaded and on the way to your new destination. I know of at least one posting that was turned off just before the member closed his house sale, and this was followed by a cancellation of posting message.CDN Aviator said:
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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Dude. I got promoted to MCpl, was told they couldn't keep me another year...lo an behold, a position was invented within a new unit that became an attachment from my real unit and was absorbed by them. I got to stay another year. Until you hear something from the career manager or at least the local trade advisor AND you have the message in hand, don't count your chickens. Like a few folks mentioned, put something on paper and staff it up - if you don't, the answer will definitely be "tough tiddly winks" vice might be "tough tiddly winks" or might be "OK, you can hang out another year or two".
MM
MM
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The above policy seems pretty clear for the OPs stated intent.
"It is important to note that a request for a
promotion refusal shall not constitute posting evasion for members that wish to remain at the same
location to avoid a posting to another geographical location."
He's SOL, end of story.
Time to move on.
"It is important to note that a request for a
promotion refusal shall not constitute posting evasion for members that wish to remain at the same
location to avoid a posting to another geographical location."
He's SOL, end of story.
Time to move on.
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recceguy said:
I think you may have missed the "not" in there. The policy does clearly state that he can refuse the promotion in order to remain at the current location, without running afoul of "posting evasion". However, that doesn't preclude the CM from posting him at his current rank, and single year promotion refusals are treated much differently than multi-year refusals.
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Herb said:
If you have access to DWAN, go to the DGMC Website, left side, "Promotions" and have a look at "Promotion Refusal". Pretty self explanatory.... The previous posting by Occam throws some caution to the wind, so you have to be careful in what you choose to do. Even if you refuse the promotion, there is no guarantee you will stay in location.
I can appreciate that people have informed you of where you can obtain the information you need to make an informed choice - so kudos to them.
Having said that, your idea to initiate paperwork for a promotion that has yet to occur is in my opinion fool hardy. Secondly, refusing a promotion because you want to stay at a place that you consider great is an equally poor decision.
Getting promoted provides you additional experience and opportunities. If you get posted you will go to a new place that can be great or perhaps it will suck. In general most people will concur that wherever place you get posted to it is you yourself who will determine how good or poor the posting will be. There are a lot of places where I thought a posting to there would suck (in my head) but knew many friends who went there and loved it.
Your early on in your career, your promotion would not be deferred - it's not like okay we'll promote you next year then - there are no guarantees my friend (unless you are going from Pte to Cpl). So you lose out on a promotion, your peers pass you by - they get promoted to the next rank even quicker and the possibilities for meaningful employment are boundless. You on the other hand still remain at your old rank and a new supervisor has come along that hates your guts and not only are you not promoted your not leaving either.
All this to say - is that your plan is short sighted and if I was your supervisor I would tell you that straight to your face and if you still wanted to do it I would re-evaluate if you are as good and as smart as I initially thought you were.
Lose-lose.
Having said that, your idea to initiate paperwork for a promotion that has yet to occur is in my opinion fool hardy. Secondly, refusing a promotion because you want to stay at a place that you consider great is an equally poor decision.
Getting promoted provides you additional experience and opportunities. If you get posted you will go to a new place that can be great or perhaps it will suck. In general most people will concur that wherever place you get posted to it is you yourself who will determine how good or poor the posting will be. There are a lot of places where I thought a posting to there would suck (in my head) but knew many friends who went there and loved it.
Your early on in your career, your promotion would not be deferred - it's not like okay we'll promote you next year then - there are no guarantees my friend (unless you are going from Pte to Cpl). So you lose out on a promotion, your peers pass you by - they get promoted to the next rank even quicker and the possibilities for meaningful employment are boundless. You on the other hand still remain at your old rank and a new supervisor has come along that hates your guts and not only are you not promoted your not leaving either.
All this to say - is that your plan is short sighted and if I was your supervisor I would tell you that straight to your face and if you still wanted to do it I would re-evaluate if you are as good and as smart as I initially thought you were.
Lose-lose.
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Whoa...
Only the member can decide if choosing to stay at a location is a poor decision or not.
After having spent an entire career in the CF, I can say that sometimes your peers passing you by just isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things.
He's also got to consider that due to the lag between signing a PER and an actual promotion resulting from that PER, that it may well be worth the gamble of getting a new boss he doesn't get along with.
I hope you're not suggesting that you would evaluate someone negatively simply because they made a single promotion refusal.
Only the member can decide if choosing to stay at a location is a poor decision or not.
After having spent an entire career in the CF, I can say that sometimes your peers passing you by just isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things.
He's also got to consider that due to the lag between signing a PER and an actual promotion resulting from that PER, that it may well be worth the gamble of getting a new boss he doesn't get along with.
I hope you're not suggesting that you would evaluate someone negatively simply because they made a single promotion refusal.
All I am saying is that people make poor decisions everyday and I certainly have the right to take that into consideration in future evaluations - of course that is only one piece of information.
In addition, it is also my opinion that if you look at all the pros and benefits of accepting the promotion and refusing it the negatives of refusing the promotion outweigh the positives. You can not stay in one place for all your career so get on with it. Also just because you refuse that promotion doesn't mean they can't post you out anyways at your current rank - even if you have only been there a year - you just never no.
I mean every situation is different - I know MSE Ops for example who may refuse a promotion because they like driving over admin - that is a little different and yet of course there are still consequences for such a decision.
As a supervisor, given the reasons given by the individual in this particular case - my first course of action would be to try talk him out of it and I think you have an obligation to do so. Your thoughts?
While it is ultimately the member's decision, the consequences of that decision do not fall exculively within the domain of the individual.
In addition, it is also my opinion that if you look at all the pros and benefits of accepting the promotion and refusing it the negatives of refusing the promotion outweigh the positives. You can not stay in one place for all your career so get on with it. Also just because you refuse that promotion doesn't mean they can't post you out anyways at your current rank - even if you have only been there a year - you just never no.
I mean every situation is different - I know MSE Ops for example who may refuse a promotion because they like driving over admin - that is a little different and yet of course there are still consequences for such a decision.
As a supervisor, given the reasons given by the individual in this particular case - my first course of action would be to try talk him out of it and I think you have an obligation to do so. Your thoughts?
While it is ultimately the member's decision, the consequences of that decision do not fall exculively within the domain of the individual.
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