Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[Old Sweat]

James,

This gives the CDS the final say in establishing the criteria for promotion, free from political interference, or at least that is the intent. In its early years the army in particular was patronage ridden and plagued by the political party in power at the time, promoting its friends in both the regular force and the reserves.

To get back to the main thrust of the discussion, if you read the statement, you will see that the CDS has the authority to direct, delegate and supervise the professional development of officers. The statement does not mean that there are no controls, quite the contrary.

 

[Bloggins]

For each promotion you do need a prerequisite amount of time in rank. And with the exception of Cpl you require a leadership course. As far as I know in the regular force you need three years time in as a Pte after completing DP 1 in order to be promoted to Cpl. After that you require PLQ and 2 years time in rank to be eligible for Mcpl (by which time you should have completed DP 2). Then 2 more years in rank with DP 3A you are eligible for promotion to Sgt. 3 years time in rank with ALQ and DP 3B and you are eligible for promotion to W.O. After that 2 years time in rank with QL 7 (the QL 7 hasn't changed yet) and you are eligible for promotion to MWO. They have just come out with a course for the appointment to RSM and I a do not know what it is called. Keeping in mind that after promotion to Cpl you require to merit for each promotion. As well promotions can be back dated. Now as for accelerated promotions and DAPS to the best of my knowledge this is how it works. In order to be DAPS'd it has to be justified with course reports and assessments and sent higher. A soldier is only allowed one  DAPS in their career. As far as accelerated, a soldier can be accelerated every other rank if they merit it. And as for the practice of DAPS and accelerated promotion we are not unionized and the best man gets the job. Our units depend on the quality of person. If a particularly smart, driven and fit young person is more capable of doing the job than someone who has been in a bit longer there is no reason to hold the young soldier back.

Cheers.

 

[Pte_Martin]

I've done searches on this topic and have found conflicting information.  

For Reg Force,

Is there a minimum time in for each rank before one can be promoted?  

I've read that a private can get accelerated promotion after 3 years to corporal.  But I've also read someone say he got promoted from private to corporal after 2 years.   After corporal, does one need to be in that rank for at least 2 years to be considered for promotion.   I've also heard that one can only get accelerated promotion once in their career, is that true?   After attaining the rank of corporal, is accelerated promotion still possible?

I'd also like to know if it's possible for a private to get commissioned (if one has all the prerequisites other than not having been in the military for that long).  

It also depends if you have done other service for example if a reserve cpl transfers to the regs usuallywill get promoted faster

 

[Greywolf]

Hmm...sorry...what's DAPS?  That's not the same thing as accelerated promotion?

 

[jwsteele]

I have a question about this.  The staff really never explained the process to us at St.Jean.  I am an OCdt and realize that when I graduate I will receive my commission to 2Lt and then Lt shortly after but who decides when you get promoted thereafter and what are they looking for?  Surely it can't just be time put in=promotion.  This was never described to us.

 

[735_winnipeg]

i'm in the reserve, from what i can see it's time in plus training courses passed equals promotion.  might be the same for regs.

 

[George Wallace]

Everyone in the CF is promoted on merit after their initial promotions to Cpl or Lt, depending on whether they are NCMs or Officers.  Your Unit and Trade will have Merit Boards annually and everyone in your Trade will be Merit Listed.  A certain percentage (changes every year) are then promoted.  

Merit Boards start within the Unit, and then culminate with a Merit Board with the Career Managers in Ottawa, for everyone in your Trade.  It is like a pyramid, in the way that the selection is done, from unit to the final Merit Board in Ottawa.  From this Merit Board the Career Manager will send out the messages that promote people.  

In the Combat Arms, all the Regimental/Bn/School COs and RSMs have seats on the Merit Boards in Ottawa, along with a "Fair Dealer" (Officer and CWO from another Trade), and they will go through all the candidates several times to pick those to promote.

 

[cdnsignaller]

Omg, i was in in the early ninety's and remember these Merit Boards.

Sounds like a delgation of Amway distributers HAHAHAAHA :dontpanic:

 

[jwsteele]

All makes sense now.  Are you allowed to turn down a promotion?  What if you're happy as a Captain and don't want to be a Major...can you just say no?  Also I've heard that to get to the senior officer ranks that you need to take a bunch of administrative and staff courses and possess a masters degree.  Do you take these before a promotion to improve your chances or are they mandatory after you recieve it?  I personally woudn't like to be much more than a Captain and get stuck behind some desk or even worse NDHQ and eating lunch at Rideau Center everyday expanding the waist size.

 

[MattyH]

Please tell me you don't need a masters to get in to the senior ranks!

As far as being promoted to Lt... I'm going for Armour, DEO. Do you get to Lt. after battle school or is it after your first overseas trip? Thanks

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

JSweetle,

What program are you in?

Once you are commisioned (2Lt) it is one year plus your DP1 qualification (MOC qualified) to Lt and two more to Capt.  RMC grads generally get promoted to Lt in May of the year following their graduation from RMC (since they get commissioned upon Grad from RMC and they usually finish their MOC training in the summer).  This means that RMC grads are usually 2Lts in their Regiment for about a year (they get their in Sep).  DEO people are usually promoted to Lt upon graduation from MOC training since their clock started upon grad from St Jean (since they already had a degree). 

Promotion to Major is based on the merit list as George described.  Once you enter the promotion zone (based on the minimum time in rank) you are "merit listed" within your MOC.  You are "ranked" among your peers and as promotions come up the top of the list gets promoted.  Your place on the list depends on a host of things such as:

  a.  your last three PERs (Performance Evaluation Reports)

  b.  your Potential which is based on elements of your PER plus a host of other things (second language, education, professional development (courses), etc).

To be honest I don't know if you can turn down a promotion but I suppose it could be possible.  Bear in mind, as a combat arms officer your continued service in your profession depends on getting promoted.  By this I mean that you can't be a Troop Leader or Battle Captain/Battery Captain for life.  Everyone gets posted out of the Regiment sooner or later and generally to return requires getting promoted.  You could end up at a staff job for ten years as a Captain or a Major.

Regarding courses, for most officers you get to Captain on your DP1 training.  I think that the artillery have some extra stuff but I must admit I never paid attention.  Captains take ATOC in Gagetown and AOC in Kingston.  Those, plus your OPMEs are your required "courses" for Majors. 

Matty H,

When you finish DP1 (used to be called Ph IV) at the Armour School you could be promoted to Lt if you are DEO and have commissioned for at least a year already.  Your first posting should be as a Troop Leader for at least two years.  This timeframe could include a deployment but this has nothing to do with promotion.  You don't need a Masters to get promoted to Maj but it is worth "points" at the merit board. 

Cheers,

2B

 

[Dog]

Is it the same sort-of deal for NCM's?

 

[jwsteele]

2Bravo, to answer your question, I am ROTP civi U and my trade is Infantry.  I will be graduating from university in June of 2007.  The information I've been given is that once BOTP is complete and I have a degree I will recieve my 2Lt commission which means that will be in June 2007.  I also understand that 2Lt is like a probationary period and you are promoted to Lt within a year regardless and that Captain natually follows within 2-4 years.  Thanks for the information on how the merit listing works but what I don't understand is why they would promote a really good battle Captain in his prime to Major etc and stick him in an admininstrative job.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Dog,

In principle yes.  Getting to Cpl requires time (four years) and qualifications (usually your DP1 training plus some extra MOC specific stuff) after you've gotten to the Regt).  After that it takes time in rank, qualification (courses) and merit listing to get promoted.  Getting to MCpl requires your PLQ course, although support trades sometimes get promoted "acting/lacking" which means they get promoted but have to take the course within a certain time.  Getting to Sgt requires the DP3A course (although some trades may well have extra courses in there), while WO requires the DP3B and the ILQ.

Getting PLQ and then promoted to MCpl is the first big promotion hurdle.  For combat arms NCMs the PLQ course is a critical step.  You usually get on that course as a result of being merit listed high enough within the Regiment (as a Cpl).  This in turn in based on your performance and perceived potentia (in the eyes of the chain of command but particularly the SSM and RSM).  

Others here can elaborate better than I can but I hope I gave you the 5 cent tour.

Cheers,

2B

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

jwsteele (sorry I spelled your name wrong up there),

In theory, you should be promoted to Lt in June 2008 and Capt in June 2010.

The danger of a Battle Captain suddenly getting promted to Major is pretty low (you'd need some fairly high casualties).  In order to get the required PER scores to be considered you generally have to have completed the duties of either Adjt, Ops O or 2IC HQ Sqn/Admin Coy.  You only get these after completing Sqn/Coy level Capt jobs and there would usually have been an ERE somewhere in there (extra-regimentally employed).  Once you've been an Ops O/Adjt/2IC HQ at the Regt/Bn you generally get posted out as there are no other Capt jobs to do and there are people coming up behind you.  The only way to come back is to get promoted and be a Sqn/Coy OC.

A Captain's career could look like this:

  a.  year one to three of being a Captain - posted to the School as an instructor or a reserve unit as RSS

  b.  year four to six of being a Captain - posted back to the Regt.  Yr 1 Sqn BC, Yr 2 Sqn 2IC, Yr 3 Ops O

  c.  year seven to eight - post out of the Regiment for two years at a senior Capt staff job and then (hopefully) promotion

Not all may get to Ops O, Adjt and 2IC HQ.  Some may never get promoted and once posted out will not come back.  You might see "streamers" who skip out on the first Capt ERE and steal a march but that depends on the Regiment.

For now, just focus on getting through university and your training in Gagetown.  Then focus on doing your best as a Platoon commander.  The rest will either happen or it won't.

Cheers,

2B

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Reading my last post again this morning, I'd like to add a couple of things.

My timeline starts once the young officer has completed his first "tour" at his Regiment, which can be anything from two to three years.  For ROTP people getting posted after three years will also usually coincide with getting promoted to Captain.  Infantry officers tend to stay at their Regiment for a few years after being a Platoon Commander, so their timeline will be a little different.

Cheers,

2B

 

[jwsteele]

2Bravo, thanks very much for taking the time to provide those answers.  It doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

[Acorn]

jwsteele,

Here's a bit of advice from one of the other ranks (NCM - WO) - decide what you aspire to. I'd offer that aspiring to be a Capt is not setting your sights very high, especially if you're Infantry. You should, IMO, aspire to command - at least to command a Company, which means you will be a Major. If you want to be a Commanding Officer strive to become a LCol. That means lots of schools, lots of effort, lots of time in the "staff jobs" you say you don't want. In today's infantry, as a Capt, you won't be commanding much unless there's lots of attrition. Don't assume that as a Major you'll be stuck with admin jobs (you will, but you can also command a company - ask some of the posters here - like Devil39 - what that feels like, in combat).

You're joining at an exciting time for the infantry junior leader (the section commander (sgt) and platoon commander (lt)). The majority of your superiors for the next couple of years will have no combat experience at the junior level. You have an opportunity to get that experience now, and use it to your betterment and the benefit of your men when you achieve Command. Don't seek to stay at a low level for your own benefit/gratification.

Good luck,
Acorn

 

[jwsteele]

Acorn, thanks for the reply.  All you say makes sense.  I intend on making  a career out of the CF and do aspire to become a Colonel or something one day but my restless nature never wants to see me put behind a desk for very long.  Thanks again.

 

[Dog]

Sorry to give this one a shove back in the direction of NCM's... I've come across a few references in the media of "MCpl bloggins who has been in the military for 14 years.".... am I staring at a bleak career of little mobility? The prospect of being a Mcpl after 14 years in the infantry is bloody discouraging to say the least... when I see things like that it gets my mind racing about what else I could do with my life after my VIE.

I joined excited at the possiblity of starting a career of possibility am I kidding myself?