Proper protocol for Officer Cadets
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ArtyNewbie:
I'll pretty much agree with MedTech here - except I wouldn't have used the word "please".
Other than that - MedTech sums it up to my complete agreement.
Roy
I'll pretty much agree with MedTech here - except I wouldn't have used the word "please".
Other than that - MedTech sums it up to my complete agreement.
Roy
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I don't belive I was calling your leadership into question, you were reading far too much into it. I was simply saying that for any instructor to state that there is no place for given names in the military, and for your information yes I knew and used the given names of all of my peers on all of my career courses, in the shacks, in the mess, in the middle of the night on fire picket, during the middle watch when you're shooting the breeze just to stay awake. we'd talk about things like home towns, kids, dreams, ambitions.
In the classroom, on parade moving about the base its nothing but business as it should be, formal like.
you see we have a publication dedicated to heritage and tradition that dictates how we address each other, it does provide guidance on the use of given names.
The following is provided for reference to show I'm not just talking out my a@#$% but have taken the time to research the topic a little.
A-AD-200-000/AG-000 THE HONOURS, FLAGS AND HERITAGE STRUCTURE
OF THE CANADIAN FORCES Chap 11 Art 11
11. Nothing in this order prohibits the continued
use of given names in a social setting within the
bounds of normal etiquette and traditional military
discipline.
Generaly unit standing orders amplify on this one to identify just what "social setting" means.
If I personnally offended you I appologize, but please do not take offence when I make a statement towards actions that are not yours.
In the classroom, on parade moving about the base its nothing but business as it should be, formal like.
you see we have a publication dedicated to heritage and tradition that dictates how we address each other, it does provide guidance on the use of given names.
The following is provided for reference to show I'm not just talking out my a@#$% but have taken the time to research the topic a little.
A-AD-200-000/AG-000 THE HONOURS, FLAGS AND HERITAGE STRUCTURE
OF THE CANADIAN FORCES Chap 11 Art 11
11. Nothing in this order prohibits the continued
use of given names in a social setting within the
bounds of normal etiquette and traditional military
discipline.
Generaly unit standing orders amplify on this one to identify just what "social setting" means.
If I personnally offended you I appologize, but please do not take offence when I make a statement towards actions that are not yours.
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Well maybe you and I just have had different experiences then. I rarely addressed my course mates by their first names. When it got down to it I did shoot the sh^t with my course mates when we were on stand-to and pickets, but even then I rarely used their first names. There was nothing wrong with my instructors' instructions. They said we should never address each other by our first-names when we're working. The last time I checked work was neither a time to social nor to chat it up, and by your reference, it merely reinforces my point that there is no place for first-names when we're working, and that's where the whole point originated from. Etiquette at work. Another point by your reference is that 'use of given names in a SOCIAL SETTING within the bounds of NORMAL ETIQUETTE and TRADITIONAL MILITARY DISCIPLINE.' Normal etiquette and traditional military discipline says nothing about addressing your subordinates or superiors by their first names.
Lastly I took offence not because it was directed towards me, it was exactly because it was about my instructors. I can honestly say that my section 2IC and later section commander was one of the most professional soldiers I have met thus far. The wealth of knowledge and professionalism my instructor had earned my never dying respect. That is why I was offended. I was offended because with out knowing the individual, you had criticized their leadership capabilities. Actually, you had insulted his leadership capabilities which I just could not let go. If we really must talk about leadership, there's one right there, loyalty.
Lastly I took offence not because it was directed towards me, it was exactly because it was about my instructors. I can honestly say that my section 2IC and later section commander was one of the most professional soldiers I have met thus far. The wealth of knowledge and professionalism my instructor had earned my never dying respect. That is why I was offended. I was offended because with out knowing the individual, you had criticized their leadership capabilities. Actually, you had insulted his leadership capabilities which I just could not let go. If we really must talk about leadership, there's one right there, loyalty.
A
aesop081
Guest
MedTech said:
Your workplace must be some boring....glad i dont work there.
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oh come on 
you know what I mean CDN Aviator the long dull moments with that tiny bit of excitement. You'll like it here 
especially in my office, I get to go and visit Nursing Schools and explain to the 30/40 beautiful nursing students that their future lies with the Canadian Forces Health Services ;D
you know what I mean CDN Aviator the long dull moments with that tiny bit of excitement. You'll like it here especially in my office, I get to go and visit Nursing Schools and explain to the 30/40 beautiful nursing students that their future lies with the Canadian Forces Health Services ;D
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Med Tech,
Your loyalty to your intructors is indeed commendable as it should be.
"They said we should never address each other by our first-names when we're working." the examples I gave included in the mess (a practically rank-less environment), and in the shacks, just because my contract says 24 hrs a day 365 days a year doesnt mean I can't socialize at work.
And I can see your points, I was at one time about 8 years ago, a reservist and the use of first names was almost non-existant, so we have indeed had different experiences. I'll tell you from experience 6 months on a ship addressing everyone by thier last name and rank/appt with no socialization grates on everyones nerve, there still needs to be a relaxed atmosphere even at work, but thats where the mess comes into play.
I will agree with your instructors comments about the use of given names at work to a point, ie in mixed company but it's not wrong for a Cpl and a Mcpl to address each other by first name, unless of course there are Pte's present and likewise up the chain. It tends to make a more efficient workplace day to day.
Also another point, I live in married quarters, my neighbor is a MS should I address him by rank and name when we're in the backyard having a beer, maybe I should have him put his heels together and address me as Mister, just how far do we take it
Your loyalty to your intructors is indeed commendable as it should be.
"They said we should never address each other by our first-names when we're working." the examples I gave included in the mess (a practically rank-less environment), and in the shacks, just because my contract says 24 hrs a day 365 days a year doesnt mean I can't socialize at work.
And I can see your points, I was at one time about 8 years ago, a reservist and the use of first names was almost non-existant, so we have indeed had different experiences. I'll tell you from experience 6 months on a ship addressing everyone by thier last name and rank/appt with no socialization grates on everyones nerve, there still needs to be a relaxed atmosphere even at work, but thats where the mess comes into play.
I will agree with your instructors comments about the use of given names at work to a point, ie in mixed company but it's not wrong for a Cpl and a Mcpl to address each other by first name, unless of course there are Pte's present and likewise up the chain. It tends to make a more efficient workplace day to day.
Also another point, I live in married quarters, my neighbor is a MS should I address him by rank and name when we're in the backyard having a beer, maybe I should have him put his heels together and address me as Mister, just how far do we take it
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I think if you were in my back yard I'd give you a beer tell you to sit down and relax. As for the MS, well I'd give him two beers, sit down and address me by my first name Why does he get two and you only get one you ask? Well, because we both know that OCdts dont work nearly as hard or as efficiently as MS/MCpls do 
.
Problems resolved I say. Different experiences, both valid to a point. Do we now have a gentlemen's accord?
Why does he get two and you only get one you ask? Well, because we both know that OCdts dont work nearly as hard or as efficiently as MS/MCpls do .Problems resolved I say. Different experiences, both valid to a point. Do we now have a gentlemen's accord?
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Sounds good,
I tend to say what I want in the worst possible manner sometimes.
I tend to say what I want in the worst possible manner sometimes.
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The first thing I was told when I got to my old unit is : "Up to captain (an including Captain), it's first name."
In more formal context (courses for example), I understand that using Ranks/Sir/Ma'am can be required...
Max
In more formal context (courses for example), I understand that using Ranks/Sir/Ma'am can be required...
Max
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Locked for a time out. There's probably not much more to add at this point, so if you have read the entire thread and still feel you have something useful to offer at this time, please ask Moderator to reopen the thread.
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