Proposal for CAP R to be run as Weekend course ????

[Devlin]

Just heard through the grapevine that there is a CAP R course that is going to be running on weekends in London, Ontario. I don't have any more information than that. The course has not started yet, but is supposed to sometime around September.

Has anyone else heard of this or can anyone confirm this to be rumour or true?

 

[Tpr.Orange]

cap R?

 

[Devlin]

CAP R - Common Army Phase (Reserve)

It's a course that junior officers have to complete, similiar to an SQ (Soldier Qualification) course but with a heavier emphasis on the leadership side of things.

 

[Tpr.Orange]

oh right on thanks

 

[Redeye]

CAP R - Common Army Phase (Reserve)

It's a course that junior officers have to complete, similiar to an SQ (Soldier Qualification) course but with a heavier emphasis on the leadership side of things.

Interesting - are you sure it's a CAP(R) and not the BOTP(R) course - they did run one of those on weekends in London a couple of years ago...

 

[Devlin]

Redeye:

Quite certain that it is indeed the CAP (R) I need to finish the course off myself and our unit's OP's & TRNG Warrant came to me about the course. He's going to keep his ear to the ground for more details and if I get them I will post them here. Just wanted to see if anyone else had heard of this?

 

[Redeye]

Redeye:

Quite certain that it is indeed the CAP (R) I need to finish the course off myself and our unit's OP's & TRNG Warrant came to me about the course. He's going to keep his ear to the ground for more details and if I get them I will post them here. Just wanted to see if anyone else had heard of this?

Interesting - I have to finish CAP (R) as well (last time I shot out a tendon just before the beginning of the course) and I want to get it done ASAP.  London is a bit of a drive away but not too far, iI wonder if I could get my unit to load me on it in the interest of getting done faster...

Keep me posted.

 

[Yard Ape]

CAP(R) should have a significant field portion.  How can you learn to live & function in the field on only two day increments?  You don't even have to look after yourself for that short a time, and you won't learn to lead a platoon attack while exhausted (I mean the true exhuastion you feel in your second week out in the field).

 

[Redeye]

I'm kind of surprised at the prospect - though, you don't do platoon attacks during CAP(R), nor do you spend two full weeks in the field.  Even Phase II (which CAP(R) replaces for reservists)  didn't have that long a field portion, only a nine-day defensive.  CAP(R) is never more than a week in the field IIRC.

The object most likely is to integrate long field portions into walk-through talk-through portions of CAC for junior officers who aren't fully qualified, so they can learn better the pace of things... though that's pure speculation.  I know there was a realization that when the MITCP traning plan was eliminated, a lot of potential candidates simply could not find a way to work five weeks' worth of courses for CAP(R) into their schedule.  A lot of the material could be fairly effectively delivered in smaller doses, such as C9, comms, nav...  Even section level operations could be done reasonably well on a weekend course, I'm willing to venture, at least as well as the new training plans will allow for rentals who aren't allowed on the real phase training anymore.  (something of a sore spot for me!)

I guess we'll have to see what comes of this, once some confirmation is presented.

 

[AndrewWGrieve]

We spent more than a week in the field on CAP.  It was eight days for patrolling and defensive at the end of the course.

 

[Redeye]

Was that CAP (Reg Force) or CAP(R), the Reserve Force version...?

 

[AndrewWGrieve]

Reserve version.

 

[Redeye]

Alright then - seems the weekend CAP(R) would be a rumour then.  While interesting, I thought as much.  It's probably a better way to do it.  I wonder, though, now that it's supposed to be modularized, if the first modules are being considered for weekend offerings or something like that.  That would make sense, for the theory, C9, and nav components to be done on the installment plan.

We'll see, I suppose.  The fact remains that whatever it's set up as I have to get it downrange as soon as I can!

 

[AndrewWGrieve]

Each of the three modules has a classroom portion and then a field portion.  The first module you learn about radios and a little bit about nav, and then do 5 days of nav in the field (including solo night nav and solo day nav, which on my course ended up being rather unsafe... tons of people got lost, the trucks arrived hours late, and people got hurt).  The second module you do C9 and learn principles of offensive and then do five days of section attacks in the field.  And finally, on the last mod you do a couple of days of principles of recce and defensive and then do the test and off you go to the field for eight days.  The way they have it structured, I don't see how it could be done on the weekend.

 

[Redeye]

Each of the three modules has a classroom portion and then a field portion.   The first module you learn about radios and a little bit about nav, and then do 5 days of nav in the field (including solo night nav and solo day nav, which on my course ended up being rather unsafe... tons of people got lost, the trucks arrived hours late, and people got hurt).   The second module you do C9 and learn principles of offensive and then do five days of section attacks in the field.   And finally, on the last mod you do a couple of days of principles of recce and defensive and then do the test and off you go to the field for eight days.   The way they have it structured, I don't see how it could be done on the weekend.

That's hardly an anomaly, CAP and its predecessor BIOC Phase II were famous for those sorts of things.  During Recce Week and Nav Week in particular the number of casualties was astounding.  The worst I heard of was a guy breaking an ankle a long way from any road or usable black track.  The section tried fireman carries to get him out, until another guy basically put his back out when HE stepped in a tank rut.  If I heard the truth, helo eventually came to get them both out.

It's like a meat grinder, I got a wobbly ankle as a souvenir of my go at it.  Next summer I'll nail it though.

 

[Gun Shy]

Why wern't you on the PRes Cap this Summer ?

 

[Redeye]

Why wern't you on the PRes Cap this Summer ?

The short answer is that the timelines didn't work because of my civilian job.

 

[Spring_bok]

Having just finished instructing on the CAP(R) this summer I highly doubt that the same aim could be achieved in a weekend format.there are 31 training days and 17 of them are spent in the field.  If it were to be done on weekends then module three should have to be done at ATC.  The weekend training may be referring to the supplementary POs that are taught at the unit such as Method of Instruction,PLGR,grenade and pistol.  Just my thoughts.

 

[Redeye]

Having talked to another person, who instructed on it last year, that'd be right, and for the best as well, because as someone commented, you can't get very much done in a weekend generally, certainly no continuity nor sense of really operating in the field.

 

[Highland Laddie]

Having just finished instructing on the CAP(R) this summer I highly doubt that the same aim could be achieved in a weekend format.there are 31 training days and 17 of them are spent in the field.   If it were to be done on weekends then module three should have to be done at ATC.   The weekend training may be referring to the supplementary POs that are taught at the unit such as Method of Instruction,PLGR,grenade and pistol.   Just my thoughts.

I totally agree with this view point. I have also heard less than stellar comments about the current CAP(R) programme, and the thought of it going 'weekend' concerns me greatly.

Call me old fashioned, but all combat arms officers should have to go the old Phase II / Phase III nightmare in Gagetown route. Removing Reservists from that course will have long term detrimental effects to the Army Reserves, and the Army as a whole....speaking as an Infantry grunt of course.