Public sector wages

[daftandbarmy]

We automate processes to eliminate clerical (lower-paid) functions, and replace their efforts with higher-paid people trying to understand the minutia of the processes the clerks did.

Of course, we rarely simplify the processes and take advantage of automation; rather, we automate a paper heavy process, retain its workflow, but add in computers making things longer, more complex - but with fewer people to deliver, and no one dedicated to the function.

Or, if you're some IT systems, you promise personnel savings, deliver a reduced solution late, but cut the personnel who should have been leading the transformation effort per your original schedule so you can claim an early RoI, and then wrap up millions over budget with a system that's fine on the shop floor, but not so good in deployed, austere locations with limited bandwidth.

.... and then we forget how to do the simplest, old school, customer service things right, like answering the phone

Millions of calls to government agencies go unanswered: Auditor General

https://globalnews.ca/news/5249257/calls-to-government-auditor-general/

 

[Good2Golf]

...or, if you're some IT systems, you promise personnel savings, deliver a reduced solution late, but cut the personnel who should have been leading the transformation effort per your original schedule so you can claim an early RoI, and then wrap up millions over budget with a system that's fine on the shop floor, but not so good in deployed, austere locations with limited bandwidth.

You mean like using a software module intended for a widget factory to manage a complex, highly mobile system, like an aircraft? ???

 

[dapaterson]

Don't be ridiculous.  Who would be stupid enough to do that?

 

[mariomike]

Saw this in another forum:

A civilian is someone who is not a member of the Fire Service, Police or Armed Forces.

Merriam - Webster.
Also in my service in the police and as a firefighter both groups did not define themselves as civilians.

I would say practically all uniformed members are citizens, but are not civilians.
Then the question becomes how do you look at civilian vs uniformed when it comes to Class A / Volunteer FF / Aux Police. Civilian? Uniformed?

Ya, I've not seen a definition or distinction that would be universal; it needs context. Up until a number of years ago, OPP 'civilians' were represented by the broad public service employees union. Once they were brought into the fold, there is still a separate MOU for each. They are convenience words; the 'uniform' agreement covers members that work in plain clothes and some 'civilian' members wear a uniform. Even the 'sworn' descriptor doesn't work since there are special constables who are sworn.

Right. Words of convenience used in contract negotiations.

"Non-uniform" aka "civilian" negotiate in two-tiers: "Unit" and "City-wide".

"Uniformed" need only negotiate at the single-tier "Unit" level.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

.... and then we forget how to do the simplest, old school, customer service things right, like answering the phone

Millions of calls to government agencies go unanswered: Auditor General

Millions of calls to government agencies go unanswered: Auditor General - National | Globalnews.ca

Seven million callers were sent to an automated system or were told to go to a website or to call back later.

globalnews.ca

My office was one of the few that answered the phone and we had a culture of never passing the buck, so if we could not help the person, we gave another number that should help and told them to call back if that didn`t work. A lot of people were frankly amazed a human picked up. To many people in government think they are to important to answer the public when they call, well they are not.

My old boss told me when i started working a desk:

1. Spend the money like it`s coming out of your pocket

2. Think of everything you hate about government and don`t do it

 

[daftandbarmy]

My office was one of the few that answered the phone and we had a culture of never passing the buck, so if we could not help the person, we gave another number that should help and told them to call back if that didn`t work. A lot of people were frankly amazed a human picked up. To many people in government think they are to important to answer the public when they call, well they are not.

My old boss told me when i started working a desk:

1. Spend the money like it`s coming out of your pocket

2. Think of everything you hate about government and don`t do it

Thankfully most of my public sector clients think the same.

I had a meeting with a senior executive client in one of the ministries recently. He mentioned that he tried to 'turn off' the installation of a (now obsolete) Cadillac teleconferencing system for all the meeting spaces in his ministry. COVID has driven everyone to online so why bother, right?

He ended up having to pay anyways, and the system doesn't even work properly after it was installed.

His comments were along the lines of 'think of what we could have done to actually help people in this Province with that kind of money instead of pouring it down the drain.'

 

[mariomike]

Brihard said,

No... What he’s talking about is already covered under the Treasury Board’s directions on COVID, including the ‘699’ leave code.

Thank-you, Brihard. I did not know where to look. So, I asked:

Do federal unions have Working Quarantine Pay in their collective agreements?

ie: Working from work - not from home - while on quarantine.

Thought it perhaps best to reply in the, "Off topic discussions not relating to the Canadian Army" forum, as my question does not relate to the CAF.

Specifically, as the title of this 4-page thread says, "Public Sector Wages."

Because, my question was specifally about Public Sector Wages. Not masks. Not lockdowns. Not vaccinations. Not the CAF.

Specifically, when a federal public sector union member is on home quarantine. But, is ordered in from home quarantine to their workplace to work their regular job - whatever that job may be / insert ANY job classification - while still on quarantine.

Does going from a Work from Home Quarantine to a Work from Work Quarantine affect their wages?

Thanks to Brihard, I "educated" myself a bit on the Treasury Board’s directions on COVID, including the ‘699’ leave code.

I read about "Leave with Pay" and "Working from Home".

I was unable to locate "Working Quarantine" ( ie: working from work while on quarantine - not from home. )

Does such a policy exist in Fedral Public Sector unions?

I would prefer to avoid the "`I don't have it, so they shouldn't either" arguement.

Just curious to know if federal public sector unions have it, or not.

It may not seem important, until you find yourself in that situation.

Thank-you.

 

[Scott]

My corner of gov't: Someone on quarantine does not report to work. End.

In the early days, 699 was granted pretty quick. I always asked managers if the person we were speaking about was absolutely critical to their operation. I rarely had to delve deeper into my thinking.

I don't know how you did your work when you worked, it's pretty irrelevant to this conversation. But we do not order people to do anything. We have a collaborative approach between unions and management that, for the most part, works well. My ear is to the ground, and the issues are individual.

 

[mariomike]

My corner of gov't: Someone on quarantine does not report to work. End.

Nice to hear that. No need then to negotiate financial compsation.

I was curious because of our 800 members, 436 of us were on quarantine. The employer had no choice. Unless you were in a hospital, you had to report to your station for duty.

Go back into home quarantine after your 12-hour shift.

That was "a gazillion years ago". But, the collective agreement remains the same now as it was back then.

It made a significant difference financially.

Which is why my question was,

Do federal unions have Working Quarantine Pay in their collective agreements?

ie: Working from work - not from home - while on quarantine.

I assumed if it happened at one level of government, it may have happened at others. In which case, a financial agreement before hand is wise.

Apparently not, so no need for special financial language in the contract.

I guess the answer is no. So, there is no need for language about wages to be written into federal public service union agreements, because the situation described is inconceivable at the federal level.
Thank you for explaining the policy of the federal government regarding this question.

That was the only question I had.

 

[Scott]

Federal government workers are not TEMS employees. Maybe that's the perspective you need to consider. It's comparing apples to bowling balls.

If someone is sick, they are sick. You do not work when sick. That's why we have sick days. In my agency, not everyone is an absolute requirement to be physically on site, or even present remotely. So we do not ever ask people to work when they are sick. It's so counter to what we have written and prepared for that it should not have to happen. We didn't prepare for Covid, but we managed to keep the lights on through it - and get our most crucial work done.

Look, somewhere there's some federal employee(s) who experienced this differently - but these are anomolies. They require more time, but we do achieve solutions. You also talked about having half of your 800 members affected. That's not a sample size that can be compared to what I am dealing with. Not even remotely. I also have geography, provincial interactions (health agencies, WCB), and a myriad of differing job descriptions to consider.

And I can only speak for one part of the feds.

 

[mariomike]

If someone is sick, they are sick. You do not work when sick.

So we do not ever ask people to work when they are sick.

Thank-you.

Guess I should have been more specific.

436 were placed in home quarantine, which meant being isolated from those persons within the home, continuously wearing an N95 respirator, and taking their temperature twice a day. SARS-like illnesses developed in 62 of those 436, and suspected or probable SARS requiring hospitalization developed in 4 others.

Those 66 were not required to report to their stations for "working quarantine".

For those who are required to report for to their stations, while on quarantine, the financial details are in the collective agreement.

That's why we have sick days.

So do we.

Sick days are not deducted from your sick bank, which tops out at nine months gratuity pay after 35 years of service.

Leave with Pay ( LWP ) applies during home quarantine or hospitalization.

We do not "work from home", or stay home, during a pandemic.

And I can only speak for one part of the feds.

I think "discussions not relating to the Canadian Army" specifically, the "Public Sector wages" was a good place to ask:

Do federal unions have Working Quarantine Pay in their collective agreements?

Sounds like "Working Quarantine" never happens in the federal public sector.

So, there is no need to negotiate "Working Quarantine pay" into the the collective agreement.

Thank-you .

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