Québec Election: 7 Apr 14

[Remius]

The fact is guys, that support for a referendum is low.  Very low in fact.  Almost 60% plus don't want to hear or talk about it.  It's also hurting the PQ in the polls.  Their tactic of talking about it upfront seems to have backfired.  Yesterday at various press conferences they didn't even want to talk about it and are trying to change the channel and talk economy, something that Quebecers actually care about and something the PQ has proven to have a bad grip on.

In fact, having a referendum and them losing badly might actually put a nail in that coffin once and for all.

 

[George Wallace]

The fact is guys, that support for a referendum is low.  Very low in fact.  Almost 60% plus don't want to hear or talk about it.  It's also hurting the PQ in the polls.  Their tactic of talking about it upfront seems to have backfired.  Yesterday at various press conferences they didn't even want to talk about it and are trying to change the channel and talk economy, something that Quebecers actually care about and something the PQ has proven to have a bad grip on.

In fact, having a referendum and them losing badly might actually put a nail in that coffin once and for all.

Indeed.  The more Marois is in the press, the more she is making a fool of herself.  Even yesterday's jostling at the podium put her, and PKP, in a negative way.  Come April, there will be quite a different political climate in the province.

 

[Remius]

Quebec as it was in 1867, nothing more.  Unless parts of that want to be Canadian. 

The Atlantic question is interesting given that the Quebec Patriotic Militia now has an "Acadian component" in Tracadie, NB.  Will the Acadians take their que from the Quebec and throw off the hated chains of English oppression? >  Will Franco-Ontarians march on Ottawa and liberate it? 

The fact is the fall out from separation will be long and likely bloody at some point.

Edit.  Argh.  Screwed up my post.  Basically my response to this is that I think you don't really have a good grasp on francophones outside of Quebec.  Most do not support separation.  You know how Canadians sometimes identify themselves as not being American?  We'll with Francos  outside Quebec you can do the same only replace American with quebecer.

Separation in Canada would likely be more akin to the Velvet  divorce in Czechoslovakia. 

 

[Jungle]

As this is a discussion, as new facts are presented, views will change.  Your hurt feelings due to the "generalizations" in reference to the ruling Political Party in the province as meaning all Quebecers should require you both to lodge your complaints on a DA FORM IMT WF1 document enclosed and then circular filed:  DA FORM IMT WF1

:

George, you are unsuccessful at hiding your own francophobia on this site, so anything anybody says against Francos will be OK with you.
I am a federalist, and I consider both Francos and Anglos with attitudes like technoviking idiots. I don't have hurt feelings, and your post is childish.

 

[George Wallace]

:

George, you are unsuccessful at hiding your own francophobia on this site, so anything anybody says against Francos will be OK with you.
I am a federalist, and I consider both Francos and Anglos with attitudes like technoviking idiots. I don't have hurt feelings, and your post is childish.

I'll see your  : and raise you  :  :

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ooops, sorry. Thought this was the gun control thread for a minute. 

 

[Infanteer]

Bonjour.  Je viens de l'ouest du Canada.  Qu'est qui ce passe maintenant?

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Just out of curiosity, what about those families who have lived there for generations and don't want to "go"?

We won't know until negotiations begin.  Sometimes it's helpful to understand boundaries and which things are supersets or subsets, though.  For example, any political subdivision of Canada is more readily divisible and subject to being divided than Canada itself.  If the PQ assumes that Canada is divisible, they have already conceded that every acre of QC is also divisible.  There aren't enough police in Canada to prevent breakaway parts of QC from remaining in Canada; the SQ isn't going to be able to do it and probably its membership is unwilling to risk being whacked over it.  People who don't want to give up the benefits of living in a part of Canada won't have to unless they living in a riding/region with a strong-ish majority of vehement separatists.

Separatists operate under a number of willful delusions: that the territorial integrity of QC is inviolate; that they will continue to enjoy pretty much all the privileges they currently enjoy from being Canadian; that their standard of living is not going to crash hard; that they will have at least as much influence on the world stage as Senegal; that a lot of people will not elect to relocate out of QC once QC is fully responsible for all of its income taxes; etc.  I don't begrudge them their idiot child optimism, but I believe the proper approach to settling the on-again/off-again yowling from the intelligentsia who want to pose as a country is not to reassure Quebeckers that we like them and want to be nice to them and to offer bribes, but to reiterate ad nauseum how fu<ked up their new country will be and how remorselessly Canada is going to put the co<k to them because the first order of business for Canada is to look after the needs of Canadians - in essence, to remind them that nations have interests, not eternal friendships or divorces with ongoing carnal privileges.

 

[a_majoor]

>Just out of curiosity, what about those families who have lived there for generations and don't want to "go"?

I suspect that the problem will sort itself in two ways:

1. Look at the map Edward has posted upthread. If you live in the regions where there is a supermajority for staying in Canada, then you will probably "separate" from Quebec and rejoin Canada.

2. People who wish to remain Canadians but live in regions dominated by a supermajority of separatists would be well advised to leave (for their own safety and security. and to continue to be able to participate in all the opportunities and privileges of being Canadian), and Canada shold be willing to pay for moving and resettling them. Funds could simply be allocated from what used to be "equalization" payments.

Of course any separatist who is living in a region that wishes to remain part of Canada should be equally willing to relocate, and the "nation" of Quebec should be equally willing to fund the move as well.

 

[Edward Campbell]

According to Éric Grenier of ThreeHundredEight.com, reporting in the Globe and Mail, "The CROP/Radio-Canada poll put the PQ and the Liberals in a tie with 36 per cent apiece. Compared to the firm’s last pre-election poll, in which the PQ held a lead of 40 per cent to 34 per cent for the Liberals, this represented a significant tightening of the race." This poll was taken on March 8, the day before Mr. Pierre Karl Péladeau entered the race. His impact remains to be assessed.

 

[Jungle]

According to Éric Grenier of ThreeHundredEight.com, reporting in the Globe and Mail, "The CROP/Radio-Canada poll put the PQ and the Liberals in a tie with 36 per cent apiece. Compared to the firm’s last pre-election poll, in which the PQ held a lead of 40 per cent to 34 per cent for the Liberals, this represented a significant tightening of the race." This poll was taken on March 8, the day before Mr. Pierre Karl Péladeau entered the race. His impact remains to be assessed.

Another poll, on the TVA network (French-language owned by Québécor) puts the PQ and PLQ at 37% each, and the CAQ at 14%.
Hopefully the trend will continue.

Edited to add:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pqs-sovereignty-focus-is-errant-poll-finds/article17506979/?cmpid=rss1&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=gplus

 

[Edward Campbell]

How do those who have a better informed view of Quebec than I see M. Péladeau's impact?

My, distant, sense of it is that he's actually done more harm than good. Was Mme Marois "start struck" by his celebrity status?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Personally [and I'm just going with the folks I know] I think they would see him as a rich spoiled brat who cannot be trusted.  My wife and her family almost spit on the ground when "businessmen" come up in conversation............and some of them have been entrepreneurs but it's like the typical Canadian celebrity psyche we have.  Be a big star but not too big.........

 

[Jungle]

How do those who have a better informed view of Quebec than I see M. Péladeau's impact?

My, distant, sense of it is that he's actually done more harm than good. Was Mme Marois "start struck" by his celebrity status?

PKP has brought the referendum into the campaign, and I do not think that was the plan for the PQ. Marois is now trying to bring the focus to the economy (which was not the campaign plan to start with) so there is quite a bit of improvisation going on now. Actually, during one press conference, Marois physically pushed PKP away from the mic to answer a question.

The only reason PKP joined the PQ is to effect independance. The guy is right-wing, no friend of the unions and is not known as a team-player. He is used to micro-manage just about everything, and to making decisions on his own. I don't think his presence will help the PQ; actually, in the medium-term, I think it will harm them.

The CAQ approached PKP a few weeks ago, and I think that would have been a good match, save for the separatist aspect.

 

[Jungle]

Personally [and I'm just going with the folks I know] I think they would see him as a rich spoiled brat who cannot be trusted.  My wife and her family almost spit on the ground when "businessmen" come up in conversation............and some of them have been entrepreneurs but it's like the typical Canadian celebrity psyche we have.  Be a big star but not too big.........

That is part of a strange aspect of the Québécois: the tense relationship with wealth. Especially other people's wealth...

 

[Jungle]

Bonjour.  Je viens de l'ouest du Canada.  Qu'est qui ce passe maintenant?

Salut, il y a quelques imbéciles qui essaient de dérailler la discussion avec leurs vues intolérantes, mais à part ça, tout va bien.

Some members here denounce Québec's Charter Of Values,  but they are just as intolerant as those who proposed and support that charter.

 

[Remius]

How do those who have a better informed view of Quebec than I see M. Péladeau's impact?

My, distant, sense of it is that he's actually done more harm than good. Was Mme Marois "start struck" by his celebrity status?

I won't pretend to have a better informed view than most but I like to think I'm informed enough.

Peladeau is going to hurt the PQ.  I think Marois underestimated the reaction he provoked.  My take is that she wanted to bring some economic legitimacy to her team, something the PQ is sorely lacking.  But she has hurt some her base support, the unions.  Add to that the referendum shenanigans that no one wants to hear about and, well, she's in a free fall.

Remember this though.  Last election, people voted against the PLQ and likely, I would think, Charest. They didn't necessarily vote for the PQ so much as vote for anybody but Charest.  And given the false promises they (the PQ) made to students it is doubtful they will enjoy the support they gave them last time.

This may turn into a liberal minority.

 

[a_majoor]

I'm fairly certain that M. Péladeau is an opportunist who hitched his wagon to the PQ in the hopes of rapidly advancing his profile and political career (probably by pole vaulting over Ms. Marois after this election to take the leadership and presumably becoming Premier in one fell swoop).

While becoming a big fish in a (self created) small pond may be relatively easy to do, long term I suspect that the reaction from the ROC will harm his media empire and have a big impact on his economic fortunes. The sad thing is the Sun media chain provides a point of view that is otherwise lacking in the Canadian Media, and (provided you actually read/watch multiple sources including Sun media) balance as well. Damaging the Sun media brand and denying that voice may well be the most toxic legacy that M. Péladeau leaves behind.

 

[Good2Golf]

...Remember this though.  Last election, people voted against the PLQ and likely, I would think, Charest. They didn't necessarily vote for the PQ so much as vote for anybody but Charest.  And given the false promises they (the PQ) made to students it is doubtful they will enjoy the support they gave them last time...

Would us 'têtes carrées' be wrong in looking at the PQ election as the provincial equivalent of the federal 'orange crush' protest vote in 2011?

 

[Jungle]

Would us 'têtes carrées' be wrong in looking at the PQ election as the provincial equivalent of the federal 'orange crush' protest vote in 2011?

If you're talking about the last Québec provincial election, yes. The electorate wanted to get rid of the Liberals because of the corruption, and the ADQ-turned-CAQ was (still is) too far to the right for most Québécois.