Question about Pensions

[McMan]

Ok so I haven't found this one anywhere else on the site...

I've asked a few recruiters and they all seemed a little unsure of the answer, after I did my 5 years service (DEO), and I chose to leave the forces; would my pension be transferable to other areas of employment within the DND? For instance, if I wanted to switch jobs to either the RCMP or CSIS, would I lose my pension and have to start from scratch?
Thanks

 

[Inch]

First, RCMP and CSIS are not a part of DND.
Answer to your question. It depends on their pension plan, I've heard it's possible but again, they're not part of DND and I'm only familiar with DND's pension. If you finish out your contract with DND, you'll get severance pay - 1 month for every year of service, plus you'll get your contributions to the military pension back plus a little bit more (the military puts money towards your pension as well). If you leave the military prior to the end of your contract, you'll get a return of contributions and that's it. Whether or not the RCMP or CSIS will allow you to buy that time back towards their pension is something you'd have to ask them.

The contract I mentioned above is usually your initial contract for officers. Did they tell you 5 years?  I've only ever heard of 9 year Short Service Engagements (SSE) for officers. Anyways, towards the end of your SSE they'll offer you an intermediate engagement (IE) that will take you to 25 years under the new terms of service and you'll get a pension if you finish that contract.

Cheers

 

[rdschultz]

Thats a good question.  I was skimming over the Superannuation Act the other day, and had recalled seeing some stuff to this effect, so I'll try to help out where I can.  As a disclaimer, I'd like to add I have no experience with this subject beyond what I've read and the documents I've linked, but it'll provide a start for you.

First, from the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act:  http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-17/30593.html (edited for clarity)

6. Subject to this Act, the following service may be counted by a contributor as pensionable service for the purposes of this Act, namely,

  (b) elective service, comprising,

      (ii) in the case of any contributor,

          (A) any period of service during which he was employed in the Public Service on a full-time basis and was in receipt of salary, if he elects, within one year of becoming a contributor under this Act, to pay for that service, and any period of service with any board, commission, corporation or portion of the public service of Canada that is added to Schedule I to the Public Service Superannuation Act on or after March 1, 1960, during which he was employed on a full-time basis and was in receipt of salary, if he elects, within one year of such addition, to pay for that service,

          (B) any period of service as a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, if he elects, within one year of becoming a contributor under this Act, to pay for that service,

Now, that isn't directly applicable to you, as its sort of the reverse situation (which I didn't realize until I re-found it, tonight).  But, it led me to the RCMP Superannuation Act (I've got a couple hours to kill before I can go to sleep, so I figured I'd do some searching), located at http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/R-11/100388.html

The first thing I noticed was that the two Superannuation Acts are very similar, so I found this (edited, again, of course):

6. Subject to this Part, the following service may be counted by a contributor as pensionable service for the purposes of this Part:

  (b) elective service, comprising,

      (ii) in the case of any contributor,

        (D) any period of service in the regular force, if he elects, within one year of becoming a contributor under this Part, to pay for that service,

        (E) any continuous period of full-time service of six months or more in the Canadian Forces other than the regular force or in the navy, army or air forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada other than the regular force, if he elects, within one year of becoming a contributor under this Part, to pay for that service,

So basically, that seems to indicate that there are ways to keep your pension contributions going and not lose any benefits.  You'll obviously want to check it out in more detail, but hopefully that'll start you off.  The Public Service Superannuation Act has similar details, and that is what CSIS would be part of.  If you want to check that Act out, its at http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/P-36/97941.html

Also, just for the record, the DND does not include CSIS and the RCMP [EDIT:  Inch pointed this out while I was typing].  As well, is there anything that would preclude you from giving more than 5 years service?  Or are you just keeping your options open?

 

[McMan]

Yeah sorry guys, it was late and my message should have read DND, CSIS and the RCMP and 3 separate entities (they're just three different career opportunities for me right now).
Also as far as the contracts go, the recruiting officer told me that yes it is a 9 year contract, but because I would be entering as a DEO, I already have 4 years of undergraduate work under me, so there is only a 5 year mandatory part of that service. This is what I've been told.
In regards to just doing my 5 years and leaving, its not that I have this planned, I'm just trying to weigh several options at once here. I'm assuming I'll enjoy being an officer, but if not I don't want to be stuck with nothing in the end.

 

[casing]

...  because I would be entering as a DEO, I already have 4 years of undergraduate work under me, so there is only a 5 year mandatory part of that service.

That's news to me.   You will sign the offer of enrollment for 9 years not 5, so they expect you to serve 9 years.   Of course, you can request to release any time you want but if you release prior to completing your contract why would the RCMP or CSIS want you?

 

[dutchie]

I am actually going through the 'buy-back' process right now....so I have some solid info for you, but it's confusing....

If you are employed in a position where you contribute to the Superannuation Fund (Federal Pension), you can transfer that service DIRECTLY to another occupation, provided that the new occupation is also under the Superannuation fund. The RCMP and the CF are DEFINITELY under the same pension (as well as most, if not all, other federal service jobs).

If you do some time in the CF, and upon release get your contributions back, and then go to another federal job (under the plan), you will have to buy back your contributions.

Basically, this is how the pension works:

You have to contribute to the pension plan in two ways:

1-Time:you must work in a job that is covered by the superannuation plan. For every day (or is it month?) of service in a previous Fed Gov job, you can apply that to your new Job's pension (under Superannuation).

2-Money:You must also contribute your monthly contributions to the plan. Your employer will also contribute money to your plan.

Now, if you serve time in the CF, then upon release have those contributions given back, you will have to "buy the time back'....to my knowlege, it is not possible to not get the contributions back from the CF upon release. When you pay the contributions back, there may be a surcharge (for me it was 1.5x of my NEW RATE OF CONTRIBUTIONS BASED ON MY NEW JOB'S SALARY, plus 4% interest)....maybe different for you. I used my reserve time. I had not made any pension contributions as a reservist, but did some time with the regs for a tour....Essentially, I had contributed my time to the fund, but no money...so there was a surcharge...kinda like a 'late charge'.

clear as mud? You have to serve the time, and make the contributions, but you can do it.

BTW - this whole process is called an 'Election of Former Service'...all fed gov agencies use this term.

hope this helps
;D

 

[McMan]

Thanks a lot Caeser and hoser, that helped.

Casing: Thanks, yes I am aware that I would still be signing a 9 year contract and would be breaking it short after only 5 years, but the recruiter told me that its only the 5 years that are completely mandatory. And it's not that my plans are to serve in the CF for 5 years then transfer to either RCMP or CSIS. I was just asking this for, say theoretically, I served my 9 year contract, and then I chose to do something different. My main question was whether or not I could just continue my pension with the new job.

 

[rdschultz]

Out of curiosity, which MOC are you applying for?  Or better yet, where did you hear about this 5 year minimum? 

I'm enrolling through the DEO plan shortly, and I don't recall coming across anything mentioning 5 years and DEO in the same instance. 

 

[McMan]

Honestly I haven't started the application process yet, I'm just finishing my last year of university and they said wait till about feb-mar, to apply if you're graduating in may. I'll probably be going into either infantry or MP; however, my main focus at school was on international relations and intelligence so something related to that would probably be most desirable.
I went in to speak to a recruiter a couple of weeks ago to see what I should do and I asked him what the minimum time I would have to serve and he told me although I would be signing a 9 year contract, because I'm entering in DEO and have already technically completed the 4 years that everyone at RMC does, I would be able to bail out on the contract early after 5 years. Not saying that is what I'm planning just been told as to my options.
I also called the 1800 recruiting number and the sgt. told me the same thing.

 

[scm77]

On a different note, how much would you pension be if you were say an Infantry NCM and did a full twenty years?  I'm talking approximately not exact figures.

 

[Inch]

2% per year of your 5 highest paid years.

20 years of service = 40% of your 5 highest paid years, if your average over those 5 years is 50 grand, then you'd get a $20,000 per year pension.

Cheers

 

[koss78a]

Hello all. I have a question about tranfering pension plans.

I have contributed to the Ontario pension for 5 years now.

Thinking of joining the Canadian Forces for regular service.

Would i be able to transfer the ontario pension to the federal one?
Or do I have to start from scratch with the federal pension plan?

thank you

 

[sean watt]

I also have the same question. I have 10 years in the PSPP pension. This is an Alberta based provincial pension and if I were to leave this plan to continue as a reg force would my plan be transferrable in the CF'S?

 

[2 Cdo]

Hello all. I have a question about tranfering pension plans.

I have contributed to the Ontario pension for 5 years now.

Thinking of joining the Canadian Forces for regular service.

Would i be able to transfer the ontario pension to the federal one?
Or do I have to start from scratch with the federal pension plan?

thank you

Unless I'm wrong I think you are starting from scratch. I don't think provincial plans are transferrable to federal ones. Maybe one of the clerks on site can confirm or deny this.