Question about Reserve MARS CT to Reg F MARS

[ltmaverick25]

If a MARS Officer in the reserves has completed all 4 phases of training, completed consolidation and aquired his ticket and is a SLt and decides to transfer to the reg force will all the training and ticket be transfered as well?  Would one have to repeat any of the training, or receive a reduction in rank ect...?  If applicable, how is seniority treated?

Also, I keep hearing rumours that Reg F MARS officers are pretty vicious with each other, anyone know if there is any truth to that?

 

[dapaterson]

The short answer to all questions about CTs is - it depends.

Depends where and when you did your training.  How long ago.  Other quals you have.  Other experience you have.

All those go into a magic hopper, get blended together, and out pops your offer.

Before applying, make sure your pers file (and especially your MPRR) is up to date.  If your MPRR doesn't show a qualification, the people assessing your file won't know about it.  Many problems are caused by incomplete records - make sure yours are up-to-date.  (Did I repeat it enough?)

 

[dimsum]

If a MARS Officer in the reserves has completed all 4 phases of training, completed consolidation and aquired his ticket and is a SLt and decides to transfer to the reg force will all the training and ticket be transfered as well?  Would one have to repeat any of the training, or receive a reduction in rank ect...?  If applicable, how is seniority treated?

Your MARS 4 will transfer over, as well as any courses that would normally be transferred (Maritime Warfare Basic, etc.)  As for rank, it's been a while since anyone I know CT'd but it has been that you would transfer over as your current rank and IPC level.  That could be different now.

 

[Monsoon]

If a MARS Officer in the reserves has completed all 4 phases of training, completed consolidation and aquired his ticket and is a SLt and decides to transfer to the reg force will all the training and ticket be transfered as well?  Would one have to repeat any of the training, or receive a reduction in rank ect...?  If applicable, how is seniority treated?

You (oops, I mean "he") would not have to redo any training, but would have to get a watchkeeping and OOD endorsement for one of the heavies, collectively referred to as the CofC II qualification that every reg force MARS type does after MARS IV. In the reg force this is what having a BWK and OOD qual for a minor warship is to a reservist. You can expect it to take up to a year, depending on how much your ship is sailing. Generally, experienced reservists are brought over at their rank and class C IPC (i.e. the IPC based on their actual days worked, as opposed to the class A/B IPC based on the number of years in), but this may not be the case for brand-spankin' new subbies (reg force types get it after their CofC II). There are enough people doing it these days that you should be able to track someone down at VENTURE and find out what the deal is.

Also, I keep hearing rumours that Reg F MARS officers are pretty vicious with each other, anyone know if there is any truth to that?

I haven't sailed on a heavy, but from what I can tell the wardrooms seem friendly enough. Having a larger pool of officers creates more of a gap between the CO/XO and the junior subs, though. It's not like reserve MARS types are great gems.

 

[FSTO]

Vicious? Us? Naw were all pussycats. (as we sharpen our claws). Lets just say that certain folks don't mind stepping on a few toes and backs to get ahead. Probably now worse than in any other profession but since we are the only ones who can get command of a ship (vice the NTO's and Sea Log Officers) the competition within the MARS world is pretty cutthroat. And if you do not conform to the collective you are sent off to be Int, Log or PAFO pretty quick. (I kid, I kid) ;D

 

[ltmaverick25]

Thanks for the info.  What about age?  Is this a reg force career that is feasible for someone starting at the age of 31?  There is an ex reg force MARS officer at my unit that is of the opinion that I would have trouble obtaining a senior rank later on down the line because I would be getting passed over for the ORO course in favor of younger officers that had more years of service left ect...  Any thoughts on this?

 

[Snakedoc]

Your MARS 4 will transfer over, as well as any courses that would normally be transferred (Maritime Warfare Basic, etc.)  As for rank, it's been a while since anyone I know CT'd but it has been that you would transfer over as your current rank and IPC level.  That could be different now.

I'm curious to know specifically which courses that reservists are eligible for after MARS IV are transferable to the reg force?  FNO, Maritime Warfare Basic, STD....any others to add?

Also, have any of you known of cases of newly promoted reserve MARS Lt(N)'s with limited sea time prior to promotion being able to keep their rank upon CT to the regs?  Do any of you know what would happen in that circumstance?

Cheers,
Snakedoc

 

[Sailorwest]

Thanks for the info.  What about age?  Is this a reg force career that is feasible for someone starting at the age of 31?  There is an ex reg force MARS officer at my unit that is of the opinion that I would have trouble obtaining a senior rank later on down the line because I would be getting passed over for the ORO course in favor of younger officers that had more years of service left ect...  Any thoughts on this?

All MARS officer eat their young. That is in the recruiting documents I thought.
The only issue in joining at this age is attaining command. The Navy tend to see guys going to command in a heavy getting there by the time they are 40 or so. You may have a tough time fitting in your C of C II, D-level course and posting, Language training (if required), ORO course (year long) and posting and then an XO posting in the next 9 years.  I had the understanding that the ORO is largely loaded by merit so I don't think age would be a limiting factor on its own. It kind of depends on your objectives in joining. Getting past the 2 1/2 rank is difficult to impossible without command but is not without it's own level of satisfaction. Kind of depends what you want.

 

[ltmaverick25]

Ideally im looking to go all the way with this and obtain a command and maybe beyond.  But I am worried about the age issue.  How hard and fast of a rule is it that you need to hit command by age 40?  Whats wrong with hitting it in your late 40s for example?  I was originally under the impression that MARS was severely short handed so the trade was wide open.

 

[Sailorwest]

It is quite short handed at the Lt level. That may translate into changes in that process down the road but it's hard to say where or when that might occur. Getting surface command is not an easy process and a lot of people drop out along the way.  I wouldn't say no but it is difficult to see that there would be much of a change with this.

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

You might want to look into boats. Age is less of an issue than competence there.

How good are you at mental math? There's a lot of mental gymnastics in submarine service, but if you can do it you're WAY ahead of the game.

 

[ltmaverick25]

I wouldnt quantify my mental math as strong at this point, but I also havent sat down and dedicated any time yet to developing it either so its too early to tell.  I just transfered into MARS last month as a Naval Cadet and am scheduled to start training in the summer with an IAP bypass.  We started going over things like CPA and DTR at the unit lines, and at first it was pretty intimidating, but after I spent some time working on it on my own it didnt seem so bad, so, I guess I will find out in Sept when I start MARS 3.

One of you mentioned that alot of guys drop out along the way.  What do you mean by that?  Do they release from the Navy, or just stop trying to hit command?

I really wish I would have done all of this sooner but I was too busy wasting 14 years in the army making the best out of a less then desirable situation...

The other issue I am facing is the timing of my component transfer.  Some say go right away, others say get MARS 4 done first and go in as skilled... Now this age thing is tossed into the equation! 

 

[Sailorwest]

One of you mentioned that alot of guys drop out along the way.  What do you mean by that?  Do they release from the Navy, or just stop trying to hit command?

A little from col A and a little from col B. My MARS II had 20 or so guys to start and by the end of MARS V (am I dating myself?) less than 5 got a BWK. That is just through the training process. Becoming a qualified BWK is hard work, getting higher skill level (D level and OTO) is harder still, but command requires a different focus. It's a change in big picture mindset and not everyone can accomplish it. Writing command exams is not adequate preparation and yeah, guys just stop trying or get out because they realize it won't happen. There is the other issue lately that you can get qualified but get passed over and 'age out'. That's another incentive to quitting.
There is another way, seeing as how you are just getting started as a reservist. MWS command is not limited by any of these requirements and there are much less demanding roads to command. It isn't as sexy as a heavy but it is achievable from where you are and in relatively short timeframe. I know a lot of guys who are post command experienced, and can be promted to Cdr. It depends on what you want to do.

 

[ltmaverick25]

What do you mean by MWS? 

Can you elaborate on big picture?  In what sence are we talking about here?  I was an Int Op for a number of years in the army, looking at the bigger picture was always part of the spectrum, but im not sure if thats the same thing as you are describing.

Thanks again for all the input by the way.

 

[Klinkaroo]

What do you mean by MWS? 

Just a guess Minor War Ship?

Maybe he is trying to say as a reserve MARS you might get command quicker and easier then on a heavy as a reg force.

 

[Sailorwest]

Just a guess Minor War Ship?

Maybe he is trying to say as a reserve MARS you might get command quicker and easier then on a heavy as a reg force.

Exactly correct. The main difference between command of a surface ship and a minor warship is the scope of the role of this ship, the different level of complexity of the vessels and the experience needed to get there (not little issues, mind you). The thought process and mental approach to command are essentially the same. In the past, MWS command was one stepping stone to surface command but not so much anymore. I really don't know about whether the submarine command development process is quicker than MWS but it certainly would be more challenging.

 

[ltmaverick25]

Am I correct in assuming that the path you are describing is exclusively a reservist path?  One thing that concerns me with that is the lack of guarenteed employment.  I realize the way things are now that may seem like a silly concern, but if I am devoting my life to this path, especially at this age I need to make sure its something I can do for the duration.

Also, any idea of pension comparisons.  I know they just brought in a new pension for the reserves but to be honest I dont know a thing about how it works, or how it compares to the reg force version.

 

[Sailorwest]

Am I correct in assuming that the path you are describing is exclusively a reservist path?  One thing that concerns me with that is the lack of guarenteed employment.  I realize the way things are now that may seem like a silly concern, but if I am devoting my life to this path, especially at this age I need to make sure its something I can do for the duration.

Also, any idea of pension comparisons.  I know they just brought in a new pension for the reserves but to be honest I dont know a thing about how it works, or how it compares to the reg force version.

That is certainly one of the risks of doing this. There are a lot of my friends who have worked a long time (with maybe short terms of non-military employment) but the employment isn't guaranteed. Word of caution. If you are not successful in your training in the reg force, your employment may also be terminated, unless you are willing to change career path. As for pensions, by and large that has been fixed. If you work full time, as a reservist, you will get the same pension as a member working in the reg force. I think the rule is 50 out of 60 months under Cl B or C contract, you would automatically be on the full time pension plan for the rest of your career. So long as you do 25 years of total service (reserve or reg force), you get a full pension. This may be covered in another forum topic under administration but I do not know.

 

[ltmaverick25]

Ive done some poking around and havent found much, but my search skills arent the greatest either.

In my case, I have 14 years service, class A in the army reserves.  Does that mean that if at some point in my career, be it as a reservist or reg force I work a 50 out of 60 month period that the above 14 years will count towards that 25 year threshhold?

 

[Sailorwest]

Ive done some poking around and havent found much, but my search skills arent the greatest either.

In my case, I have 14 years service, class A in the army reserves.  Does that mean that if at some point in my career, be it as a reservist or reg force I work a 50 out of 60 month period that the above 14 years will count towards that 25 year threshhold?

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/rfpp-rpfr/intro-eng.asp
You can get to this site from any internet connection and should explain some detail of the program. I am not familar with buy back into the reg force pension plan as it does not apply to me. Your Cl A service is determined by days of service times the rate of pay and a factor of 1.6 (I think). Your 14 years if it was largely Cl A, would be a significantly smaller number of years (depending on actual days worked) that would be counted into the buy back. You would have to fork over some cash to purchase that time. I did my determination based on 21 years as a resevist with periods of Cl A, B, and C service and came up with close to 7 years to apply to the pension. Now, I haven't bought that back yet but theoretically, once you do that, you could transfer that to a reg force pension once you meet the eligibility requirement. I am sure one of the elder brethern here will point us to the correct location of this information if it has been posted before.

http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/28418.0.html
Try this