RCMP First Contract

[mariomike]

Fire and Ambulance may wait for Police to make a scene safe in certain scenarios, but they will be staged just around the corner and ready to move in as soon as requested in those kinds of situations.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the BCAS S.O.P. on Delay of Service? Did they have one?

Ours was pretty simple.

"Paramedics are reminded of their responsibility under the Occupational Health and Safety Act, Section 43, (1) and (2).2 These sections exclude paramedics from the right to refuse work where the circumstances are inherent in their work and/or if the work refusal would directly endanger the health and safety of another person."

"Not enter a scene until the appropriate agency has arrived in circumstances involving;
• the use of weapons at the scene;
• continuing violence at the scene;
• fire / hazardous materials"

"The decision to delay EMS service must include recognizing and evaluating the reasons for problematic patient behaviour—such as metabolic causes of combative behaviour—to ensure staff are not jeopardizing the patient’s life, health or safety.

4. wait for police assistance if,
a. there is an active shooter scenario, or
b. there is direct evidence of ongoing violence;

5. if electing to delay service as per paragraph 4 above, immediately notify CACC/ACS;

They also have paramedics on the Emergency Task Force.

And Rescue Task Force for ASHE calls,

Active Shooter / Hostile Event ( ASHE ) prevention / response

When sent into the apocalypse, accept no substitutes, An ambulance that has run flat tire inserts, ballistic glass & a full envelope of Level IIIA ballistic Kevlar throughout. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5i-JucB8fE

army.ca

But, I was never on either of those.

RedFive said,

I work in a jurisdiction where these kinds of services are professional, full time and readily available. There are part of this Province and Country where that is not the case at all.

I can imagine city folks freaking out if they don't get an almost instant tiered response when on vacation in the country.

Thank-you for your reply.

 

[RedFive]

I can't speak specifically to their policies, I can only say that they often tell us they're staging or en route, and we find out an hour later that they hadn't been dispatched in the first place for lack of resources and the hope we would deal with whatever the situation was. It has become a running joke between us and our dispatchers to ask, when told they're "staging", if they actually have a bus assigned or if we're going to triage ourselves.

 

[mariomike]

I can't speak specifically to their policies, I can only say that they often tell us they're staging or en route, and we find out an hour later that they hadn't been dispatched in the first place for lack of resources and the hope we would deal with whatever the situation was. It has become a running joke between us and our dispatchers to ask, when told they're "staging", if they actually have a bus assigned or if we're going to triage ourselves.

OMG Delay of Service was a $10 million lesson my old dept. learned the hard way.

Funny they call them buses. We called them cars. The younger guys call them trucks. A regional thing, I guess.

We actually operated a bus and truck division.

 

[RedFive]

I was told, quite pointedly, to stop calling them "meat wagons".

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was told, quite pointedly, to stop calling them "meat wagons".

That's because the first ambulances were hearses, so if you got loaded up, you were not sure where they were taking you....

 

[lenaitch]

I can imagine city folks freaking out if they don't get an almost instant tiered response when on vacation in the country.

Thank-you for your reply.

They did, and probably still do. At least now with pretty much everyplace having a '911address' and GPS it can be quicker than it used to be. In the before times, by the time they described the road by a name known only to a few cottagers, 'left at the yellow paddle on the tree then right at the big rock', their place had already burned down.

I don't know what or if there is province-wide protocols but around here, fire (volunteer) is supposed to be tiered with EMS for motor vehicle collisions. I say supposedly because the fatal I was involved in about a year and half ago, fire didn't show. When I inquired to the 911 centre, I was told I didn't ask for it. Sucks to be me apparently. When the call was first answered, I was asked which emergency service I wanted, which struck me as odd, rather than 'what is your emergency'. Then again, they did ask me what colour my truck was, so it seems that was important.

It seems 'bus' has caught on for ambulance in many places. It comes from NYPD and made popular by TV shows.

 

[RedFive]

I call it a bus because it is generally used as publicly funded transport for frequent fliers to the hospital with vastly over-qualified personnel to get them there.

(That's not a dig against my paramedic friends just a cynical statement of fact I suspect many would agree with...)

 

[mariomike]

It seems 'bus' has caught on for ambulance in many places.

I call it a bus because it is generally used as publicly funded transport for frequent fliers to the hospital with vastly over-qualified personnel to get them there.

I was ok with that, "As long as they walk."

I guess what they call a "bus" depends on the municipality.

If our local police were to say, "Put a rush on the bus." That might be what they would send. It was actually semi-comical when we went out of town.

After my first eight years on "the cars", I transferred to the ambulance-bus division. This is the first one I drove. A 40-foot GM "New Look" aka "Fishbowl" ( because of the shape of the six-piece rounded windshield ). She was a real back-breaker to load and unload. No power steering or air-conditioning either.

 

[mariomike]

At least now with pretty much everyplace having a '911address' and GPS it can be quicker than it used to be. In the before times, by the time they described the road by a name known only to a few cottagers, 'left at the yellow paddle on the tree then right at the big rock', their place had already burned down.

My first ten years on the job there was no 9-1-1 in our town. And, of course, no cell phones. You had to find a pay phone. Police and ambulance had separate numbers, and there were six fire departments back then. Each with their own number.

Now with so many people carrying cell phones, I hear the 9-1-1 system is sometimes flooded with multiple calls for a single incident. Which can lead to a delay with the Call Receivers.

Not to mention the "butt dials".

And many of the callers are probably video recording the scene to upload to Youtube.

I find this 9-1-1 texting and cell phone dispatch interesting. Not sure I understand it very well. Location accuracy can be a problem.

Land lines could match the call to the billing address.

I read of a suburban woman who accidentally drove into a pond, in the dark. She lived in the area and knew exactly where she was.

She gave her correct location, but her cell phone call was routed through a cell tower to the wrong dispatch centre. I read there are almost 6,000 dispatch centres in the U.S.A..

I have also read that many are understaffed,

understaffed 911 dispatch - Google Search

On TV, I saw a reporter - in a 9-1-1 dispatch centre. The call showed as a location a quarter mile away. The reporter could have shouted his location to the dispatcher.

Even the pizza knows your location when you text them. Apparently, Ubers can find you better than ambulances.

It can never tell you what floor of a high-rise building a caller is on.

 

[mariomike]

That's because the first ambulances were hearses, so if you got loaded up, you were not sure where they were taking you....

"Combination cars", as they were known back then, were more common in rural areas where resources were limited. Major multi-patient incidents, like motor vehicle collisions could put a strain on any service. You can still see examples of some at professional car shows.

In 1966 when the U.S. Congress passed the Highway Safety Act, which set regulations on ambulance design and emergency medical care. New standards on medical training, equipment and vehicles made it hard for funeral homes to abide by the regulations.

Similar regulations had been in place long before that in the jurisdiction I was familiar with.

I remember the good old days when the fire departments and EHS in the Lower mainland were having a spat about firemen providing first aid which was a EHS role.

Job protection.

Remarks by International Association of Firefighters ( IAFF ) General President Harold A. Schaitberger
June 12, 2003

But as one of this union's most fundamental responsibilities, our involvement in EMS has also helped us create and save jobs for our members.

Most people expect to need EMS some time in their lives while they don't necessarily expect their homes to catch fire. Local municipal officials know the public criticism and fallout from fire department cuts will be much more severe when EMS is involved in the equation. And they know that EMS operations certainly increase the clout of our local unions in their campaigns to fight those cuts.

Our next frontier is Canada. That is why we have more than three dozen of our Canadian brothers and sisters here at this conference. Although most of Canada is still locked into a third-service EMS system with workers represented by Canada's largest public employee union, our Winnipeg local's success in integrating EMS into its fire department has shown that fire-based EMS can and, if I have my way, will work in Canada, too.

http://www.iaff.org/03News/061203has.html

 

[lenaitch]

Our next frontier is Canada. That is why we have more than three dozen of our Canadian brothers and sisters here at this conference. Although most of Canada is still locked into a third-service EMS system with workers represented by Canada's largest public employee union, our Winnipeg local's success in integrating EMS into its fire department has shown that fire-based EMS can and, if I have my way, will work in Canada, too.

I remember the media coverage of that policy debate. As I recall, the FD union was concerned that each truck would have to give up a (union) crew member to accommodate the EMS and argued for funding to raise the qualifications of its members. I don't know enough of the pros and cons to have much of an opinion. While it might improve initial care, you still need an ambulance if you have to transport.

Boy have we wandered off topic.

 

[Booter]

Boy have we wandered off topic.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

 

[OldSolduer]

I remember the media coverage of that policy debate. As I recall, the FD union was concerned that each truck would have to give up a (union) crew member to accommodate the EMS and argued for funding to raise the qualifications of its members. I don't know enough of the pros and cons to have much of an opinion. While it might improve initial care, you still need an ambulance if you have to transport.

Boy have we wandered off topic.

I live in Winnipeg and the relationship between Paramedics and Firefighters is acrimonius at best and downright hostile at worst. Its not a good marriage.