RCMP memorial at National Military Cemetary

[jasson69]

I am wondering why the National Military Cemetery in Ottawa has included a monument to the RCMP.  Is this not supposed to be a cemetery for Canadian Forces personnel ? 

It seems there are police memorials, and parades, and monuments already in Ottawa, not to mention numerous other communities across Canada.  Everytime a police constable dies in the line of duty, the media cover it, there are parades, and large funerals.  Annually, there is both a national police memorial parade in Ottawa, and one at the provincial parliament in Ontario.  There is nothing wrong with honouring the police who die in the line of duty, but this should be a place of honour for those in the Canadian Forces only.

It seems our military doesn't get nearly the recognition it deserves..... and shouldn't have to "share" the little it does receive.

 

[Michael OLeary]

The National Military Cemetery in one part of Beechwood Cemetery.  The RCMP cemetery is also at Beechwood.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/nmc-cmn/engraph/home_e.asp

Located at Beechwood Cemetery in Ottawa, the National Military Cemetery (NMC) is a national focal point honouring those who maintained Canada’s commitment to peace and security, both internationally and at home.

http://www.beechwoodcemetery.com/vetarticle.html

National Military Cemetery of the Canadian Forces at Beechwood Cemetery

The National Military Cemetery of the Canadian Forces is located on a beautiful tract of land in the heart of Beechwood Cemetery.

Beechwood maintains three existing veterans sections, one of which is amongst the largest in Canada. This makes the creation of the National Military Cemetery a symbolic link connecting members who have served in the past to those who serve today. The natural beauty and renowned gardens make Beechwood an ideal location.

The National Military Cemetery will serve as a national focal point to demonstrate Canada's commitment to peace and security both internationally and at home. The Cemetery will honour the sacrifices made principally by all current and former Canadian Forces members (Regular and Reserve Forces) who have been honourably discharged and any Canadian Veterans of the World Wars and Korea (including Merchant Seaman). In addition, an immediate family member may also be interred in the same plot as the service members.

The design and landscaping of the National Military Cemetery was completed jointly by Beechwood management and Department of National Defence staff. Some of the features include:

    * approximately 5,000 traditional graves and 1,000 cremation urn spaces;

    * a unique bowled terrain within an hourglass shaped perimeter;

    * main entrance with ceremonial area at the west end of the section featuring a flagpole and commemorative monument;

    * exterior avenue planting of red oaks with columnar oaks features at the main entrance - red maples as a central planting;

    * 3 feature flower beds (2 annual/perennial and 1 exclusively roses);

    * a 12 foot wide ceremonial walkway extending the length of the section;

    * each upright departmental memorial will have annual or perennial plantings, common to many of the Commonwealth war graves cemeteries around the world.

Burial and most associated costs will be borne by the military for serving members. The costs of veterans and former Canadian Forces members' funerals will be borne by their estates.

 

[jasson69]

From the article I read, it seemed that the RCMP memorial was incorporated into the Canadian Forces section.  If they have their own section, then that is a different story....

However, one of the points I am trying to make is the CF needs more support.  In the last few months, we have seen almost daily reports of our soldiers being killed in Afghanistan, and yet aside from the statistics announced in the media, there is very little in the way of public sympathy.

Everyone hears how dangerous the policing profession is each and everytime a constable dies in the line of duty.... yet when a soldier is killed, the response seems to be "why are we even over there?"  Nobody asks "why do police put themselves in danger?", yet they question our troops role.  Seems strange to me.  We need more memorials, parades, and honour for our fallen members..... and that is why I feel the new cemetery in Ottawa is a good start, but we need to keep military honours strictly military.

 

[Screw]

this is a slippery slope. Ive heard this conversation before.

The truth is the RCMP have a military history and there is a strong tradition of people leaving the forces for the RCMP and the other way around. A national memorial dedicated to those non-civilians who died in the service of Canada sounds fine to me. As a former member of the CF and a cadet at depot.....

 

[Michael OLeary]

Visit the Cemetery, then let us know what you think.  I was there not long ago and was very impressed.

http://thercr.ca/gallery/national_military_cemetery.htm

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

This says it all to me:

They're a police force with battle honours... 

 

[big bad john]

Aren't they just part of the family.  They have served on missions overseas also.  They do get issued regimental numbers.  They are the little brothers we all have.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Yes, the force may have "battle honours" but very, very few of the serving constables today were among them.

OK, so which regiments have serving soldiers that fought on the battlefield of any currently held battle honour?

You are treading on a sensitive topic that is not supported either by the arrangements of the Cemeteries or the feelings of those who have posted above.

You are going to have to make a better argumant that that to even start down this road.

 

[wotan]

 The RCMP (and the NWMP before them) have a distinguished campaign record.  They are very fine gentlemen (and ladies now, too) who serve their country every bit as much as the CF, albeit in a different way.  Their service tends to be internal, but many Constables have served on international operations alongside CF personnel and in as much, if not more danger than CF personnel.  As well, Constables of other Police Services have served on international and domestic operations with the CF and UN.  If they are able to serve alongside us, I have no problem with them being laid to rest with us.

 And we are not "sharing" our honours with anyone.  They earned them.

 Speaking from personal experience of the RCMP, I can say they are a professional, dedicated group of people.  They support their communities and are quite spirited in their support of our local Legion Branch.  They might wear a different uniform, but they also serve, and God love'em for it.

Maintiens Le Droit

 

[xo31@711ret]

Jason....seen a few RCMP brothers training / observing local police forces when I was on tour over Bosnia...Also they have been on tours with our local / provincal police in Haiti; actually I remember hearing on the news one was killed on tour a year or so ago

x031@711ret

-gerry

 

[Michael OLeary]

Gentlemen, please try to stick with the topic.

jasson69, have you visted the cemetery?  Please do, you will find that the Military and RCMP sections are separate and when you are standing in the military cemetery there does not seem to be any encroachment whatever by the other sections.  Although I did not walk through it, I suspect the RCMP section feels equally well defined.

Here is an article in Legion Magazine about the establishment of the RCMP cemetery:
http://www.legionmagazine.com/frontline/news/05-01.asp#6

When you do visit Beechwood, you will also find the Veteran's Cemetery just to the north of the National Military cemetery.
http://thercr.ca/gallery/vets_cemetery_beechwood.htm

 

[jasson69]

Thank you, Michael.  No, I have not visited the cemetery, but from the pictures you referred me to, I would like to.  I think it is about time our military dead are properly honoured, and I think the cemetery is a wonderful thing.....

I was unaware the RCMP and CF were separate.....  from the article I read, I believed the two memorials were together.  My whole point is that they are separate entitites.  Never, at any time, did I say the RCMP were anything less than professional.  I have nothing against the organization.  I just feel there are many, many memorials dedicated to the police and it is about the military received even a fraction of that same public recognition.  I simply feel the police receive all the glory, and the military, as usual in Canadian society, are the forgotten service.  The cemetary is the first step towards getting the recognition they deserve. 

If this opinion makes me a "troll", then so be it. 

 

[Thompson_JM]

Well this is simply my opinion, but given the nature of the two jobs, and the fact that as stated previous the RCMP are still doing tours overseas just like us, (and in some cases longer ones. in connaught a french officer i spoke with from Trois Riveres who was going over to Haiti was going for a full year) I see no reason why they do not deserve a place in the cemetery. As I see it the RCMP is a very very Close Cousin of the CF, and Like any good family we stick together, not alienate each other over little things.

Jasson69, I would have to respectfully disagree with you. I see no problem with it.

Cheers

 

[1feral1]

I thought the RCMP Cemetery was in Regina, and traditionally any who are killed on duty, or retire and pass on are usually buried there. I have been a few times. Hallowed ground, and quite historic.

If you pass through Regina, do check out the Academy, Cemetery and of course the Museum too.  It should be noted, LEO, CF and Allied Military Forces are entitled to enter the RCMP Canteen.

Regards,

Wes

 

[3rd Horseman]

Jasson,

      The 1st Regiment Royal Candian Horse Artillery A Bty and B Bty re badged a large portion of their troops to NWMP when it was thought that having a field force in the west looked inappropriate to the locals. The NWMP then became the RCMP. They came from us and are to this day part of our history. To this day RCMP are welcome as members in Gunner messes and vice verse. At Depot the RCMP have the mate to the two guns they got on re badge along with the Gatling gun mate. The mate to those are held a Shilo. I think Teddys picture sorta sums it up real well. They earned those battle honours they deserve to be part of our brotherhood even if many of them today have forgotten their roots. And by the way Sam Steel was the gun Sgt of number 1 gun A Bty 1 RCHA. In conclusion, they derserve to lay with us in the field of honour.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

I am just happy  to see National Cemetary for the Forces and one for the Mounties.

The CF and the Mounties have a proud history of doing a National Service for their country.
I would not be at all shocked to see CF member with a MOUNTIE Past and Mountie with a CF Past.
I think the place of burial should be close and over looking one another because the history of the Forces and the Mounties are cut from the same flag and they sometimes over lap at the seams.

RCMP and The CF share history, so they should share the same cemetary.

 

[geo]

At the outbreak of WW2, many RCMP were rebadged to MPs in the haste to ship troops over to the UK.
By their uniform (cavalry) and their traditions, they are a military force and would be proud to have them on my flank.

(now if they can help me fix a speeding ticket.........)

 

[MPIKE]

I am wondering why the National Military Cemetery in Ottawa has included a monument to the RCMP.  Is this not supposed to be a cemetery for Canadian Forces personnel ? 

It seems there are police memorials, and parades, and monuments already in Ottawa, not to mention numerous other communities across Canada.  Everytime a police constable dies in the line of duty, the media cover it, there are parades, and large funerals.  Annually, there is both a national police memorial parade in Ottawa, and one at the provincial parliament in Ontario.  There is nothing wrong with honouring the police who die in the line of duty, but this should be a place of honour for those in the Canadian Forces only.

It seems our military doesn't get nearly the recognition it deserves..... and shouldn't have to "share" the little it does receive.

I actually have just returned from a vacation spent in Ottawa.  Before passing judgement based on an article I would urge you attend there first.  What I learned when I attended is Beechwood Cemetary is a public cemetary for starters.  The government has acquired a substantial part of the cemetary now for our use.  I also had the mindset that this was an Arlington type exclusive cemetary.  Nevertheless, the CF section is appropriately seperated from the RCMP and it is not like they are intermingled amongst one another.  Alot of effort is going into the care of this place.  They were working on an older portion of the cemetary and re-setting some of the older headstones that were suffering from age etc.  It's too bad I didn't take pictures to illustrate the site.  I just decided against it choosing to experience the place rather than being a tacky tourist.

Lastly, you comment on parades and various memorials.  Well, the large funerals are just part of LE tradition.  The memorials are obviously explained by the federal/provincial divisions that just occur with our system.  We have NOV11, ramp/receiving ceremonies, memorials in every town coast to coast  for the recognition that you seem to think is not there. The media is covering all events on boths sides of the divisions you are trying to make. Are you jaded or something? What's up?  i just don't see your argument.

For others..One question that I had on my visit was that there were several Cheadstones with name only and lacked the dates of birth/death on them.  Are these merely reserved spaces or is this an option for the marker?  or maybe this info will added at another time?.

Overall this placed is a very fitting tribute and a special place..
Cheers

 

[Michael OLeary]

The headstones with names and no dates are pre-sold plots.  When you decide to purchase a plot, the headstone will be prepared and placed in the next available location, that way the appearance of a seamless array of headstones is maintained.  there are about 1400 stones, and only about 500 are occupied now, if I recall correctly from my discussions when I visited.  Once you die, the dates will be added.

A few photos of the Military and Veteran's Cemeteries that I took can be found here:

http://thercr.ca/gallery/national_military_cemetery.htm
http://thercr.ca/gallery/vets_cemetery_beechwood.htm

In the second page you can see evidence of some of the work being done to realign and reset the stones.

 

[MPIKE]

Thanks for the clarification Michael.