• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

RCMP New Firearms Required Discussion- Split From New MP Decal Thread

Booter

Full Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
609
Points
810
This is something I spend a lot of time on with management and I’m going to say something crazy- I know.

When the lowest common denominator messes something up- deal with that dude, quickly, and stop treating the whole force like they can’t walk by an outlet without jamming a fork in it.

The carbine has a light. The 40mm has a light. The 870 has a proposed light (that now because of the cost of the retrofits for cups/lights/sights there is a conversation of getting rid of it that’s a real potential COA)

light discipline will be a real issue. It is a hard thing to get people thinking around
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,616
Points
1,140
Glock has been getting aggressive. Promising all types of mods
I don't know what deal they made with the O.P.P., but the pretty much gave away their .40 cal Glock 22's to the Ottawa Police.
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,616
Points
1,140
This is something I spend a lot of time on with management and I’m going to say something crazy- I know.

When the lowest common denominator messes something up- deal with that dude, quickly, and stop treating the whole force like they can’t walk by an outlet without jamming a fork in it.

The carbine has a light. The 40mm has a light. The 870 has a proposed light (that now because of the cost of the retrofits for cups/lights/sights there is a conversation of getting rid of it that’s a real potential COA)

light discipline will be a real issue. It is a hard thing to get people thinking around
The O.P.P don't seem to have had any problems with officers misusing the mounted lights on their Glock 17Ms so far. This is a training issue which can be addressed during conversion training.
 

Booter

Full Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
609
Points
810
I can’t speak to their experience-
Only mine. I do appreciate that comment though that’s something I should look into.

I know that I’ve had nothing but issues teaching around illumination. Maybe that’s a me problem and we just had a introspective breakthrough.😂
 

Booter

Full Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
609
Points
810
Pretty clear from their rollout it can be done and I’m a negative Nancy
 

KevinB

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
7,712
Points
1,140
Originally there was great concern in the USSS (Secret Service) about a rail mounted light on a handgun. Initially it only went to SOD (ERT, CAT, CS, CSU and SOTs) personnel, when the boogeyman didn’t appear it is now standard on their new Glocks.

Weapon Mounted lights are a necessary item, and all that is required is a proper training regime.
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,616
Points
1,140
I can’t speak to their experience-
Only mine. I do appreciate that comment though that’s something I should look into.

I know that I’ve had nothing but issues teaching around illumination. Maybe that’s a me problem and we just had a introspective breakthrough.😂
Officers will still have to articulate why they drew their firearm when filling out the use-of-force reporting required by their jurisdiction.

I recently worked on a project where I consulted with several law enforcement academies across Canada on low light shooting. At this point, roughly 50% of the services in Ontario (not including the O.P.P.) are using pistol mounted lights and that's expected to increase. There is still a need to teach officers how to use a handheld flashlight as a backup should their mounted light fail.
 

Booter

Full Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
609
Points
810
I’m not worried about the searching with light, I’m worried about the tactical use of light- I’ve been involved in conversion training to go to different firearms with the mounted lights and watched the struggle.

I know the use of flashlights is already a thing, but there’s a different consideration with the pressure mounted lights that I’ve observed with a few different platforms now.

But you’ve given me a good thing to think about with OPP.

We ll climb over the issues and it’s a necessary thing to have.

I’m conflating a couple different things and because you’re experts and I’m doing things from a cellphone I’m sure that’s frustrating, I’m just some dude that’s carried a couple different handguns for work now. I actually dont really care what firearm I have, I use what I have,

I’ve found good things in every one I’ve Carried 🤷‍♀️
 

KevinB

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
7,712
Points
1,140
I know the use of flashlights is already a thing, but there’s a different consideration with the pressure mounted lights that I’ve observed with a few different platforms now.
One of the biggest issues I have seen is when Light adoption comes, it usually comes out of ERT/TAC units first.
A WML (Weapon Mounted Light) activation method may be ideal for ERT, but does not work well for Patrol.

This is exceptionally true of teams that issue a carbine/smg as a primary weapon, and use the pistol as a secondary - or use a shield man with pistol.
As they will not be concerned about light activation on the pistol - as if they have the pistol out - generally it is being aimed already at something.

Patrol officers will have a different need, as immediate activation (like the DevGru pressure switch on the SF X300 series lights) isn't desired.

I only say this - as I have seen several departments down here end up needing to get new lights after they realized their ERT/SWAT system didn't work for patrol.
 

RedFive

Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
149
Points
630
I’m not worried about the searching with light, I’m worried about the tactical use of light- I’ve been involved in conversion training to go to different firearms with the mounted lights and watched the struggle.

I know the use of flashlights is already a thing, but there’s a different consideration with the pressure mounted lights that I’ve observed with a few different platforms now.

But you’ve given me a good thing to think about with OPP.

We ll climb over the issues and it’s a necessary thing to have.

I’m conflating a couple different things and because you’re experts and I’m doing things from a cellphone I’m sure that’s frustrating, I’m just some dude that’s carried a couple different handguns for work now. I actually dont really care what firearm I have, I use what I have,

I’ve found good things in every one I’ve Carried 🤷‍♀️
I'm reading between the lines that you're part of the procurement of the new pistols.
 

Fabius

Member
Reaction score
117
Points
580
Too bad the CAF can't just tag in on this RCMP procurement. Always gotta be special.
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,616
Points
1,140
Are there any police services in Canada using red dot sights on their duty pistols now?
 

KevinB

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
7,712
Points
1,140
Are there any police services in Canada using red dot sights on their duty pistols now?
I know a couple where experimenting.
I am not sure where it has gone.

I'm a major MRDS fan on pistols, I see it as a major benefit in training and a reduction in liability.
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
3,312
Points
1,060
I know a couple where experimenting.
I am not sure where it has gone.

I'm a major MRDS fan on pistols, I see it as a major benefit in training and a reduction in liability.
I had a Vortex Viper or Razor on a Gen 5 Glock 17. For the life of me I couldn't get the hang of shooting a pistol with a red dot. Any tips?
 

KevinB

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
7,712
Points
1,140
I had a Vortex Viper or Razor on a Gen 5 Glock 17. For the life of me I couldn't get the hang of shooting a pistol with a red dot. Any tips?
High draw and level presentation.
It can take experienced shooters a bit to adapt to it. New/novice shooters are very easy to get into it.

I’ll get pictures and maybe a video up tomorrow
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,616
Points
1,140
High draw and level presentation.
It can take experienced shooters a bit to adapt to it. New/novice shooters are very easy to get into it.

I’ll get pictures and maybe a video up tomorrow
That's where the challenge lies in converting iron sight trained shooters to RDS. Lots of muscle memory and mental conditioning to undo. I'm surprised the Mounties expressed as an option, unless the intent is to roll it out to specialized units only.
 

Booter

Full Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
609
Points
810
I'm reading between the lines that you're part of the procurement of the new pistols.
I was involved years ago before I would say it was even at its inception. An older BFI working group. I’m doing something else that put me lateral to the guys doing all the real work on it so we’ve bounced some ideas around, I’m no one. Just a sounding board.

Last week I spent filling out hospitality and ordering cheese trays. I just know interesting people
 
Last edited:

Booter

Full Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
609
Points
810
That's where the challenge lies in converting iron sight trained shooters to RDS. Lots of muscle memory and mental conditioning to undo. I'm surprised the Mounties expressed as an option, unless the intent is to roll it out to specialized units only.
There is a GBA+ driver to lots of this- and all our others firearms are working off or towards RDS.

I was also surprised- because while it was talked about years ago I don’t think anyone in the room thought it would happen. Believe it or not- at that point if I recall correctly the real point of contention was the light.
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,616
Points
1,140
Believe it or not- at that point if I recall correctly the real point of contention was the light.
We've had that discussion at work, too. The possibility that our officers would use the mounted light as their "go-to" flashlight to search conveyances was a real concern. I beleive that if they haven't been trained to do it, they won't. And now that "Live PD" is off the air, there are less bad examples to emulate each week.
 
Top