RCMP officers told not to wear symbol depicting ‘thin blue line’

[daftandbarmy]

Or maybe instead of a stupid piece of meaningless flair they can just support their workers properly?

Honestly don't understand why any cop would want to wear a TBL patch after it got tainted through association with a bunch of different white supremacists groups in the US (and in Canada to a lesser extent). Even if that's not the intended meaning, it really doesn't matter. A union patch that incorporated it might be different enough, but on it's own it is still a giant F U against any reconciliation effort.

More on that 'Nazi' thing:

The Short, Fraught History of the ‘Thin Blue Line’ American Flag

The controversial version of the U.S. flag has been hailed as a sign of police solidarity and criticized as a symbol of white supremacy.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/08/the-short-fraught-history-of-the-thin-blue-line-american-flag

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/08/the-short-fraught-history-of-the-thin-blue-line-american-flag

 

[Eaglelord17]

Is it correct to say that Canada went it's own way with the Cyclone, and ignored the tried and true options already in NATO service? Was it that none of the other options met the legitimate requirements of the MH community, or were their other factors at play?

Basic summary. Canada was to get the Cormorant helicopter in the 90s to replace the Sea King. Chrétien said we didn't need a 'cadillac' of helicopters and cancelled the project (at a cost of about 160 Million in penalties) after it had been accepted and we only got a few for search and rescue. The Cyclone was then selected even though it didn't exist around 2004-2005, and the first ones weren't delivered until 2015. A lot to read on for that disaster of a procurement. Actually the original procurement went well, it was the government playing games that didn't.

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm not a huge supporter of our union after how they showed their disdain for veterans.  On the union "colours" issue, while crossing back into Canada my wife remarked that the union patch that the BSO was wearing looked unprofessional and the patch  sent the wrong message ("I keep guns out of Canada - with or without a contract.")
I remember those.  Completely over the top.

I work with two former SPVM officers who spoke often about the power of their union.

OK there are no stupid questions - what is SVPM?

 

[Haggis]

OK there are no stupid questions - what is SVPM?

Service de Police de la Ville de Montréal.

 

[mariomike]

Toronto emergency services got a one-hundred year head start on unionization.

I am certainly not condoning, or suggesting, labour action. But, I was around long enough to remember the sick outs, working to rule, and work slowdowns.

Regarding the Montreal "clown pants". They broke the rule that our management and union both agreed on: Don't ever embarrass the job.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Service de Police de la Ville de Montréal.

I saw a bunch of them in 'Old Montreal' a few years ago and thought it was the 'Just for Laughs' show letting out

 

[OldSolduer]

Service de Police de la Ville de Montréal.

Who the f*ck thought that was a good idea? That fairy should have been eradicated on the spot for even daring to bring this stupid idea up.

 

[blacktriangle]

Kinda looks like boogaloo, Montreal style.

 

[Haggis]

Regarding the Montreal "clown pants". They broke the rule that our management and union both agreed on: Don't ever embarrass the job.

The SPVM and their predecessors have always had a tumultuous relationship with their unions.

My personal experiences with job actions has been mostly negative from being threatened by masked PSAC picketers in 1991 to being assaulted by an impaired picketer at a DND site in 2004 (that person later ended up working for me  ;D) to being asked to wear embarrassingly unprofessional (IMO) union swag last year.

I think the NPF is on the right track by encouraging the wear of a subtle and tasteful solidarity patch. And, based on the PSLREB ruling in favour of the CIU vs CBSA, the RCMP should just back off and accept that they will lose this fight.  That way they can concentrate on finding a good revolver to replace the S&W 5946.

 

[dapaterson]

Who the f*ck thought that was a good idea? That fairy should have been eradicated on the spot for even daring to bring this stupid idea up.

Since police are not permitted to strike, it was a union tactic to keep the ongoing labour negotiations in the public eye. 

 

[mariomike]

Since police are not permitted to strike,

Are police, and emergency services, allowed to have "study sessions"?
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/history-through-our-eyes/history-through-our-eyes-oct-8-1969-police-strike-chaos-follows

Only time I heard of "study sessions" was during the 1969 Murray-Hill riot in Montreal.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Who the f*ck thought that was a good idea? That fairy should have been eradicated on the spot for even daring to bring this stupid idea up.

No right to withdraw services so I guess its a wildcat, leaving the citizens of the city to fend for themselves, or a ridiculous very public
tacky fashion statement.
I'll take a cop showing up in clown pants over no cop showing up at all thank you very much.

Get over this uniform crap...it doesn't mean frig all in big pictures.

 

[brihard]

Are police, and emergency services, allowed to have "study sessions"?
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/history-through-our-eyes/history-through-our-eyes-oct-8-1969-police-strike-chaos-follows

Only time I heard of "study sessions" was during the 1969 Murray-Hill riot in Montreal.

None of us want crap like that. We want to do the job, we just (inconveniently) want to do it with comparable compensation, adequate backup, enough resources to keep our heads above water, modern and safe equipment, and grievance/disciplinary systems that are fairly implemented and reasonably timely.

 

[mariomike]

None of us want crap like that.

I don't think anyone does.

 

[Haggis]

None of us want crap like that. We want to do the job, we just (inconveniently) want to do it with comparable compensation, adequate backup, enough resources to keep our heads above water, modern and safe equipment, and grievance/disciplinary systems that are fairly implemented and reasonably timely.

Thanks to the impact of US events and pervasive Canadian media coverage of those same events, LE in Canada will be hard pressed to gain much sympathy from Joe Public in the face of constant demands for police reform and defunding.  (the MSM and left wing activists compare Canadian cops to US cops the same way Canadian gun owners are compared to gang-bangers  : ).

My agency works closely with the RCMP and I personally know quite a few socially.  The general consensus, as outsiders-looking-in, is that the RCMP have a huge public relations/image crisis and the NPF has a huge task ahead in contract negotiations.  Good luck to them.

 

[mariomike]

Who the f*ck thought that was a good idea? That fairy should have been eradicated on the spot for even daring to bring this stupid idea up.

Main thing is showing up. In a timely manner.

But, on the street, and especially if being sent into someone's home, I think personal appearance is very important. YMMV.

 

[brihard]

Thanks to the impact of US events and pervasive Canadian media coverage of those same events, LE in Canada will be hard pressed to gain much sympathy from Joe Public in the face of constant demands for police reform and defunding.  (the MSM and left wing activists compare Canadian cops to US cops the same way Canadian gun owners are compared to gang-bangers  : ).

My agency works closely with the RCMP and I personally know quite a few socially.  The general consensus, as outsiders-looking-in, is that the RCMP have a huge public relations/image crisis and the NPF has a huge task ahead in contract negotiations.  Good luck to them.

All true. Fortunately, the negotiations are with treasury board, not joe public. In the event that is goes to arbitration, there are things an arbitrator considers, and things it doesn’t. The biggest factors considered for the RCMP in negotiations will be, I think, external comparability to other police, and the ability to recruit and retain.

 

[RedFive]

I am also curious as to why people believe the RCMP are underpaid? Its 56k a year starting going up to 86k within 5 years with a excellent pension, OT, and other benefits. For a job that only requires you have highschool that is a pretty solid package.

Because the guys across the street, with the exact same training, education and job make on average $20,000 a year more than I do to deal with the same people I do.

https://deltapolice.ca/constable-recruiting/salary-benefits/

I want the same quality of life and ability to afford things for me and my family they have. An astounding number of members badge over to municipals the second they hit two years service so they don't have to pay the RCMP back for their training, and other agencies in this area snap them up as quickly as they can. Fair is fair, and $86,110 a year is not enough to live to my desired standard or a comparable standard to my colleagues in other agencies where I am posted.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Because the guys across the street, with the exact same training, education and job make on average $20,000 a year more than I do to deal with the same people I do.

https://deltapolice.ca/constable-recruiting/salary-benefits/

I want the same quality of life and ability to afford things for me and my family they have. An astounding number of members badge over to municipals the second they hit two years service so they don't have to pay the RCMP back for their training, and other agencies in this area snap them up as quickly as they can. Fair is fair, and $86,110 a year is not enough to live to my desired standard or a comparable standard to my colleagues in other agencies where I am posted.

Fair is fair and the fact that other cops are paid those ridiculous salaries is not right. If anything their pay should be matching yours, not the other way around. 86k a year is significantly more than the average income in Canada (about 50k a year) and considering that that average is derived from both the millionaires and billionaires in there as well as the people making next to nothing, there is a whole lot of people making a fraction of what you make with the same education. In fact the median income for Canada for a individual is only 27,600$. The average household income is 76k. So your making 10k more than most households and that is without overtime.

At some point I hope government salaries rebalance back to a sensible place but they have given me no signs of being able to do that on their own.

 

[mariomike]

Fair is fair and the fact that other cops are paid those ridiculous salaries is not right. If anything their pay should be matching yours, not the other way around.

While unionization is new for the RCMP, police collective bargaining has been in place in Canada for years. So it should be no surprise that salaries have gone up.

Maybe instead of some people saying, "I don't have it, so they shouldn't either." They could ask, "They have it – why don't I?"

It's not a race to the bottom.