Reconstitution

[CountDC]

Fifteen years ago, 40%+ of MCpl-WO / Capt-Maj in the Army Reserve were on full-time service at any given time.

I suspect the numbers have not gotten better - in short, the Reg F shortfalls have been papered over by full-time Res personnel for years.

Funny thing is I found it different lately Every year the full time staff other than chief clerk was stripped from the reserve units to fill staff/instructor positions they could not get a Cl A reservist to fill. With the FTSE program this became from May to Aug I was the only full time staffer at the unit. The last year there we were able to hire someone to admin the FTSE members for that period so I at least got a break from that.

I had a policy at every unit that anyone hired to fill a clerks position was transferred to the unit. Made sure they understood that in the interviews. I was not dealing with the crap of units trying to force my staff to work for them. Seen enough of the "if you don't do this we will cancel your class b and never give you another" bull. Still amazing when I tell people their home unit can't cancel the class b and they can not refuse to submit their application. Worse case is that they can include a document not recommending they be hired. Understand some want to volunteer but the units really have to stop abusing it.

 

[FJAG]

If you want to create more animosity between the Regs and Res take the summer away from the Regs and tell them to go train the part timers. I cant see that going sideways at all.

That in a nutshell is the problem now. RegF and ResF are two entities and the former feels little responsibility to train the latter at a time that works for the ResF. Going back to my days in the 70s artillery regiments played a role in the summers providing teaching staff at NRQS and the various Area Rank and Trade Schools as well as directing/supervising/safety staff on PRes summer concentrations. It was just something programmed into the schedule with APS and leave. No one missed leave (Well actually I did but that's a whole different story) - the troops didn't miss leave.

I have to ask again, and maybe its a combat arms thing, but where is this mythical lay about all day in the Army guy ? If you're an MMT/Clerk/RCEME ect and you've nothing to do then you don't know what you're doing, and what you've done already, is probably a disaster.

Of course, clerks and mechanics and food services etc etc don't have slack time. Riflemen and gunners and crewmen and engineers do. When you're not on exercise or on a regimental course there's nothing going on but maintenance. And surprisingly, even in a tracked M109 battery, there's only so much maintenance that can get done at the user level. There was always a burst of heavy activity right after a spring practice camp/brigade concentration in June but as the month wound down by July and August you were looking for jobs for folks to do. September everything picks up again.

All I'm saying is if we ever want to create a better reserve force, we need to fire the current reserve senior leadership and integrate reserve units into hybrid units and make the RegF elements within that unit formally responsible and accountable for training their reservists. That means programming the whole training year to cater to the strengths of each and using the most appropriate times of the year to train each. School years being what they are it means May to August are prime training times for reservists which leaves more than enough time from Sep to Apr to train the RegF members of the unit. If the RegF components stop their own training activities at the end of April and use May and June for maintenance and training reservists and using July and August to train reservists and APS and leave you can easily make it work without resentment (except for those folks who bitch about everything, regardless). It's a simple scheduling and communications thing. If on the other hand you push the RegF component on their own thing into May and Jun and then try to crowd ResF, APS, leave, and maintenance into Jul and August - yup - there'll be problems.

 

[daftandbarmy]

A shout out to 31 CBG, who seem to have done a great job at a recent open house event.

Over 800 wrist bands issued, apparently, to members of the public who attended. Now, if events like this could be organized well in advance and delivered on a regular basis...


Thank you to the over 500 people who attended H-GREAT at the John Weir Foote VC Armoury in Hamilton on April 1, 2023.
The Hamilton Garrison Recruiting Exhibition and Tattoo, hosted by the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise’s) included musicians from The #Argylls, The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry, The Royal Highland Fusiliers of Canada, HMCS Star, and The Schiehallion Dancers.
It also featured recruiters from the units above in addition to 11th Field Artillery Regiment, RCA, 31 Signal Regiment, 31 Service Battalion and 23 Field Ambulance.
We're already looking forward to the next one!
If you missed this opportunity to speak to a recruiter about joining our team, dont worry.
Call

1-800-856-8488 today.

Capt (ret'd) Tim Fletcher, #RHLI
Merci à plus de 500 personnes qui ont assisté à H-GREAT au manège militaire John Weir Foote VC à Hamilton le 1er avril 2023. L'exposition et le tatouage de la garnison de Hamilton sur le recrutement ont été organisés par les Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise's). Il comprenait également des musiciens des Argylls, du Royal Hamilton Light Infantry, des Royal Highland Fusiliers of Canada, du NCSM Star et des Schiehallion Dancers. L'événement a également réuni des recruteurs des unités ci-dessus, ainsi que le 11e Régiment d'artillerie de campagne, le 31e Régiment des transmissions, 31e Bataillon des services et la 23e Ambulance de campagne. Nous ne pouvons pas attendre la prochaine fois! Si vous avez raté cette occasion de parler à un recruteur pour rejoindre notre équipe, ne vous inquiétez pas. Composez le 1-800-856-8488 dès aujourd'hui.
The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders of Canada Princess Louise's The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry 4th Canadian Division - 4e Division du Canada Canadian Army Armée canadienne #31CBG #31GBC #HamOnt

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[Furniture]

That in a nutshell is the problem now. RegF and ResF are two entities and the former feels little responsibility to train the latter at a time that works for the ResF. Going back to my days in the 70s artillery regiments played a role in the summers providing teaching staff at NRQS and the various Area Rank and Trade Schools as well as directing/supervising/safety staff on PRes summer concentrations. It was just something programmed into the schedule with APS and leave. No one missed leave (Well actually I did but that's a whole different story) - the troops didn't miss leave.

I think a big part of the problem the RegF has right now is that the numbers were cut, and we can't fill the positions we have. What worked when the RegF was closer to 100K might not work now that we are down to about 60K. I'm sure what we do now can be improved, dramatically, but the reality is the RegF is hurting to train people just to fill the RegF positions.

All I'm saying is if we ever want to create a better reserve force, we need to fire the current reserve senior leadership and integrate reserve units into hybrid units and make the RegF elements within that unit formally responsible and accountable for training their reservists. That means programming the whole training year to cater to the strengths of each and using the most appropriate times of the year to train each. School years being what they are it means May to August are prime training times for reservists which leaves more than enough time from Sep to Apr to train the RegF members of the unit. If the RegF components stop their own training activities at the end of April and use May and June for maintenance and training reservists and using July and August to train reservists and APS and leave you can easily make it work without resentment (except for those folks who bitch about everything, regardless). It's a simple scheduling and communications thing. If on the other hand you push the RegF component on their own thing into May and Jun and then try to crowd ResF, APS, leave, and maintenance into Jul and August - yup - there'll be problems.

The biggest issue I see with that plan is that the people who are spending time sitting waiting for the bosses to come back from leave/postings, aren't really the ones who will be doing the teaching. If you're using your MCpls, Sgts, Lts, Capts, etc., to train people all summer, then turning around and having them train/exercise/deploy with the RegF all winter, you'll not keep people.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just saying that a change like that would essentially require the tearing down of the entire CAF system, and starting over again. It's far more likely that the CAF will implode before anything like that happens.

 

[Halifax Tar]

That in a nutshell is the problem now. RegF and ResF are two entities and the former feels little responsibility to train the latter at a time that works for the ResF. Going back to my days in the 70s artillery regiments played a role in the summers providing teaching staff at NRQS and the various Area Rank and Trade Schools as well as directing/supervising/safety staff on PRes summer concentrations. It was just something programmed into the schedule with APS and leave. No one missed leave (Well actually I did but that's a whole different story) - the troops didn't miss leave.

So let me get this straight, the ARes cant get its own people to go off and teach their courses, for a host of reasons. So the Reg force should have to give their time in the summers to fill that gap ? Hard no.

I'd no fill every one of those CFTPOs, with a smile, unless my troop(s) absolutely wanted to go. Its more important form them to be enjoying their summer time going home after work to their families and decompressing than supporting the ARes because the ARes is so self inflicted wounded that it can't support its own coursing.

The one exception I would give you would be for higher leadership positions. Coy OC / CSM and up, we've committed to the institution and we should be expected to display that.

Of course, clerks and mechanics and food services etc etc don't have slack time. Riflemen and gunners and crewmen and engineers do. When you're not on exercise or on a regimental course there's nothing going on but maintenance. And surprisingly, even in a tracked M109 battery, there's only so much maintenance that can get done at the user level. There was always a burst of heavy activity right after a spring practice camp/brigade concentration in June but as the month wound down by July and August you were looking for jobs for folks to do. September everything picks up again.

We cant pay people over time. But we can give people time. So I'm cool with those folks having a quiet summer so long as their fall, winter and spring are bonkers.

But I will tell you they arent in the CSS/CS world. Our job happens, mattering not if people are playing silly buggers on the Mattawa plains.

All I'm saying is if we ever want to create a better reserve force, we need to fire the current reserve senior leadership and integrate reserve units into hybrid units and make the RegF elements within that unit formally responsible and accountable for training their reservists. That means programming the whole training year to cater to the strengths of each and using the most appropriate times of the year to train each. School years being what they are it means May to August are prime training times for reservists which leaves more than enough time from Sep to Apr to train the RegF members of the unit. If the RegF components stop their own training activities at the end of April and use May and June for maintenance and training reservists and using July and August to train reservists and APS and leave you can easily make it work without resentment (except for those folks who bitch about everything, regardless). It's a simple scheduling and communications thing. If on the other hand you push the RegF component on their own thing into May and Jun and then try to crowd ResF, APS, leave, and maintenance into Jul and August - yup - there'll be problems.

Hybrid units wont work until we use the regulations, that you've provided, to hold reservists accountable for signing on the dotted line. And it also wont work until the ARes comes to table, hat in hand, with a real plan to reorganize into reasonable being. Until that point, I think big army is fine with the ARes the way they are. Why ? Because the ARes is just for augmentation and any training needed can be provided to them in a work up period. Example Afghanistan. No one actually thinks a CBG can or will ever deploy as a fighting organization. I wont tell you numbers on this forum but we had a CBG last month, let me tell you the personnel turn out was abysmal.

Step 1 - Use the tools at hand to start holding people accountable. Even if we lose folks who were never really there anyways.
Step 2 - Reorganize into something coherent.
Step 3 - Ask for big army help.

 

[Kilted]

Funny thing is I found it different lately Every year the full time staff other than chief clerk was stripped from the reserve units to fill staff/instructor positions they could not get a Cl A reservist to fill. With the FTSE program this became from May to Aug I was the only full time staffer at the unit. The last year there we were able to hire someone to admin the FTSE members for that period so I at least got a break from that.

I had a policy at every unit that anyone hired to fill a clerks position was transferred to the unit. Made sure they understood that in the interviews. I was not dealing with the crap of units trying to force my staff to work for them. Seen enough of the "if you don't do this we will cancel your class b and never give you another" bull. Still amazing when I tell people their home unit can't cancel the class b and they can not refuse to submit their application. Worse case is that they can include a document not recommending they be hired. Understand some want to volunteer but the units really have to stop abusing it.

That tends to slow things down at the admin level. I know the full time people at my unit were told that they had to teach/be staff on at least one course a year. So in theory if they did a weekend course during the fall/winter timeframe they wouldn't have to go away in the summer. Now the longer term Cl B people are usually the ones who can get away with taking CTO days. Although, that's another mystery to me. "Come work an extra Two and a half days and you can stay home on Monday."

 

[dapaterson]

If it's unreasonable to expect Reg F to support the Res F, then all full time Res F in support of the Reg F should be withdrawn, and repurposed to exclusively support the Res F.

You know, all those folks running recruiting centres, training establishments and such.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If it's unreasonable to expect Reg F to support the Res F, then all full time Res F in support of the Reg F should be withdrawn, and repurposed to exclusively support the Res F.

You know, all those folks running recruiting centres, training establishments and such.

Fill yer boots, but you're taking work away from your own people.

Why doesn't the ARes use it's B Class folks to fill the instructor gaps ?

 

[dapaterson]

They do. But the majority are employed outside unit lines.

The Reg F is addicted to Res F full time pers covering off tasks they can't / don't want to fill. That current employment patterns are inconsistent with the NDA stipulations on "continuing full time service" will eventually lead to an ugly reckoning.

 

[Halifax Tar]

They do. But the majority are employed outside unit lines.

The Reg F is addicted to Res F full time pers covering off tasks they can't / don't want to fill.

My observations and experience are highly contrary to this.

I've SIV'd units that have more people on class b in unit lines than parade on Thursday nights

 

[btrudy]

They do. But the majority are employed outside unit lines.

The Reg F is addicted to Res F full time pers covering off tasks they can't / don't want to fill. That current employment patterns are inconsistent with the NDA stipulations on "continuing full time service" will eventually lead to an ugly reckoning.

Sure. And they're paid accordingly to do so, on a full time basis.

Which means that whatever home units those folks used to work for, who aren't paying said Class B folks anymore, shouldn't have any real expectation of getting any work out of them. It's a very weird expectation that many reserve units have about getting free labour out of people who are working for other organizations full time.

If the reserve units want Class B folks, they should be offering Class B contracts.

 

[Eaglelord17]

So let me get this straight, the ARes cant get its own people to go off and teach their courses, for a host of reasons. So the Reg force should have to give their time in the summers to fill that gap ? Hard no.

I'd no fill every one of those CFTPOs, with a smile, unless my troop(s) absolutely wanted to go. Its more important form them to be enjoying their summer time going home after work to their families and decompressing than supporting the ARes because the ARes is so self inflicted wounded that it can't support its own coursing.

The one exception I would give you would be for higher leadership positions. Coy OC / CSM and up, we've committed to the institution and we should be expected to display that.

We cant pay people over time. But we can give people time. So I'm cool with those folks having a quiet summer so long as their fall, winter and spring are bonkers.

But I will tell you they arent in the CSS/CS world. Our job happens, mattering not if people are playing silly buggers on the Mattawa plains.



Hybrid units wont work until we use the regulations, that you've provided, to hold reservists accountable for signing on the dotted line. And it also wont work until the ARes comes to table, hat in hand, with a real plan to reorganize into reasonable being. Until that point, I think big army is fine with the ARes the way they are. Why ? Because the ARes is just for augmentation and any training needed can be provided to them in a work up period. Example Afghanistan. No one actually thinks a CBG can or will ever deploy as a fighting organization. I wont tell you numbers on this forum but we had a CBG last month, let me tell you the personnel turn out was abysmal.

Step 1 - Use the tools at hand to start holding people accountable. Even if we lose folks who were never really there anyways.
Step 2 - Reorganize into something coherent.
Step 3 - Ask for big army help.

It’s called service before self. This dick swinging game of Regs and Reserves is stupid and intentionally weakening ourselves for no valid reason.

Of course the Reserves can’t provide the staffing to man all the courses, if they could I would seriously question who they have working for them because anyone who can get all summer off every year is either a teacher or can’t/won’t find a civilian job and are only doing part time Army.

Why should the Reserves be the one to find the solutions? They are under the command of the Regular Force. Is the CAF not led by full time generals/admirals? Ultimately what needs to happen is a serious review of ALL of the Canadian Forces and come up with a real plan.

That plan would likely include shuttering units/capabilities in the Regs and Reserves, standing up new/old capabilities, restructuring our forces, and sacrificing some sacred cows.

We need unification 2.0 in terms of how much change is required. We lack that resolve though from both the political leadership and military leadership.

In the short term without that type of change getting as many people, Regs and Reserves trained as quickly as possible will have the best effect on our system. If that means some reg force members lose their summers to make it happen, so be it.

 

[dapaterson]

We can agree to disagree, then.

There are foundational problems with the structure of the CAF, Reg and Res. The Reg F is largely incompetent in managing its structure and personnel generation functions, resulting in a reliance on Res F personnel to fill positions in recruiting and training and institutional management.

In my perfect world, other than training (students) and operations, the Res F would have zero full time personnel - all would be Reg F responsibilities. But with a lack of competent Reg F management, that's unfortunately currently impossible.

 

[Remius]

Fill yer boots, but you're taking work away from your own people.

Why doesn't the ARes use it's B Class folks to fill the instructor gaps ?

Plenty of work to be had to be honest. We had a guy or two supporting OP paradigm that we are not allowing an extension for, for that very reason. I’m sure the reg force guys can dig up a guy or two for that. And unit class Bs are already being tasked.

We are also no filling all sorts of stuff coming our way that isn’t ARES centric. Training is now priority.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

My observations and experience are highly contrary to this.

I've SIV'd units that have more people on class b in unit lines than parade on Thursday nights

I was a 10/90 guy, and the net effect of arriving with 2 x Capt, 1 x MWO, 2 x WO, and 1 X Sgt was to double the effective parade strength of the unit

 

[Remius]

My observations and experience are highly contrary to this.

I've SIV'd units that have more people on class b in unit lines than parade on Thursday nights

Come to Ottawa or Kingston and see how many full time reservists there are outside unit lines. It’s insane.

 

[Furniture]

It’s called service before self.

That has been the excuse used by the CAF every time they screw a member around... Right now, due to many factors we can't keep people in, that attitude is one of the factors.

In the short term without that type of change getting as many people, Regs and Reserves trained as quickly as possible will have the best effect on our system. If that means some reg force members lose their summers to make it happen, so be it.

What RegF will be left if that's the way we decide to do things? This may come a shock to some, but right now neither the RegF nor ResF can attract or retain people. Making conditions worse for them is not going to magically make that stop.

What we actually need is top level leadership that learns to say "no" to people other than their subordinates. So maybe we can focus on fixing the bleed right now, before we lose our best due to burnout.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It’s called service before self. This dick swinging game of Regs and Reserves is stupid and intentionally weakening ourselves for no valid reason.

Its pretty ironic that you're playing the service before self card when the reason you need people to fill your instructor ranks is because your own people wont put service before self.

Of course the Reserves can’t provide the staffing to man all the courses, if they could I would seriously question who they have working for them because anyone who can get all summer off every year is either a teacher or can’t/won’t find a civilian job and are only doing part time Army.

Then maybe the courses need to be scaled back to something that can actually be accomplished ? Maybe trades need to be cut from the ARes ?

Why should the Reserves be the one to find the solutions? They are under the command of the Regular Force. Is the CAF not led by full time generals/admirals? Ultimately what needs to happen is a serious review of ALL of the Canadian Forces and come up with a real plan.

Because no one cares as as much as the ARes. Right now its doing whats needed, providing augmentation.

That plan would likely include shuttering units/capabilities in the Regs and Reserves, standing up new/old capabilities, restructuring our forces, and sacrificing some sacred cows.

That should happen.

We need unification 2.0 in terms of how much change is required. We lack that resolve though from both the political leadership and military leadership.

No the ARes lacks the resolve to be honest with itself.

In the short term without that type of change getting as many people, Regs and Reserves trained as quickly as possible will have the best effect on our system. If that means some reg force members lose their summers to make it happen, so be it.

Not gonna happen.

In my perfect world, other than training (students) and operations, the Res F would have zero full time personnel - all would be Reg F responsibilities. But with a lack of competent Reg F management, that's unfortunately currently impossible.

We agree here. Get rid of Class B and C. Its part time or full time, all stop.

Come to Ottawa or Kingston and see how many full time reservists there are outside unit lines. It’s insane.

Ottawa and Kingston is probably bad places to use to support your position. One would expect high concentrations at those bases, think about the HQs and units there.

 

[Remius]

Ottawa and Kingston is probably bad places to use to support your position. One would expect high concentrations at those bases, think about the HQs and units there.

why? Because it highlights how badly the reg force can’t staff and manage their positions and staffing levels? It’s actually nuts. I’m not exaggerating. When I worked at the CFRC 80% of the staff were reserves. No clue what it is now. People move from other areas for class b work in those areas draining other more remote areas.

It also has the highest concentration of units as well in that brigade. Montreal is no better as they support St Jean immensely. Also high density reserve units there.

So I agree with you. We barely get reg force support on training to begin with. Let them have their summers. Or whatever. But I am all in favour of pulling any ARES full time class B types to support ARES training and reconstitution.

 

[Eaglelord17]

That has been the excuse used by the CAF every time they screw a member around... Right now, due to many factors we can't keep people in, that attitude is one of the factors.

What RegF will be left if that's the way we decide to do things? This may come a shock to some, but right now neither the RegF nor ResF can attract or retain people. Making conditions worse for them is not going to magically make that stop.

What we actually need is top level leadership that learns to say "no" to people other than their subordinates. So maybe we can focus on fixing the bleed right now, before we lose our best due to burnout.

When I did my 3s for supply, there was supposed to be 3 fully manned courses that summer but because they couldn’t find two MCpls in the CAF they cancelled one of the courses.

Based just off my 3s course, 5 of us went regs after that. Many others did deployments and class Bs. So for the cost of pulling two MCpls from somewhere you would have gained substantially more than what was put out.

Does it suck to be that MCpl tasked to teach for two months? Yes it can. Would it have benefited the CAF more than them staying at whatever unit they were with for a couple months, odds are substantially more so.

When you lack trained people, the solution is to train not to go we are so short staffed therefore we can’t afford to send people to train. Not training only long term extends the problem/makes it worse.

Its pretty ironic that you're playing the service before self card when the reason you need people to fill your instructor ranks is because your own people wont put service before self.Then maybe the courses need to be scaled back to something that can actually be accomplished ? Maybe trades need to be cut from the ARes ?
Because no one cares as as much as the ARes. Right now its doing whats needed, providing augmentation.
That should happen.
No the ARes lacks the resolve to be honest with itself.
Not gonna happen.
We agree here. Get rid of Class B and C. Its part time or full time, all stop.

Ottawa and Kingston is probably bad places to use to support your position. One would expect high concentrations at those bases, think about the HQs and units there.

We do put service before self. Being in the Reserves isn’t a money maker for most and eats into time with your family.

You want to know whats harder than being in the Regs? Working civvy side and still being a Reservist. Expecting Reservists to regularly be available to teach in the summer is stupid. The CAF wants budget soldiers, which means we have real world commitments beyond the military. The CAF pays the Reg force to be there to do what needs to be done at any given time.

The CAF needs troops trained. I really don’t care where they get the instructors from but they need to grab them from somewhere, Regs or Reserves, and make it happen.