Reconstitution

[daftandbarmy]

I have never seen a situation when this was an issue. I value competency in trades vs fitness, as long as people meet the minimum standards. Failing at my mission has far more repercussions in my leadership, or unit/national military.

I'm with you, don't get me wrong.

But I can guarantee you it is an issue in some places, having seen grossly obese Canadian Infantry Officers - for example - wearing CADPAT tents...

 

[MilEME09]

You can mandate all the PT you want, but you'll never out train a bad diet. The CAF mandating a diet plan will have more of an impact for the obese than letting them dick around in the gym for an hour a day. The FORCE test itself is decent enough to keep using, however the 5 minutes (or whatever it is now) between sections need to be reduced to 2 minutes. 5 min recovery is excessive IMO.

I agree, I worked as a chef for 12 years, it's pretty easy to tell when stuff comes to base kitchens pre made in a box. Controlling the waist line starts with the kitchen, and it starts with cutting out processed foods. More scratch cooking to ensure nutrition, not stuffing us with enough preservatives, sodium and sugar that our bodies will last 100 years after we die.

Example I'd say chicken Kyiv was served once every couple weeks last time I was in borden. Straight out of a box, about 15% of my sodium intake in one piece.

Healthier eating is the biggest thing the CAF still doesn't get right. I get it, it's cheaper and easier to order in 100 cans of tomato sauce then make it in a steam kettle or beef stock, but if we actually cared about the health of our troops we would be teaching our cooks how to be scratch cooks not cooks at a pub opening up a box and heating it up.

 

[daftandbarmy]

We can't do everything. Diet is up to members.

Starts early, it seems....

Preschoolers get almost half their calories from ultra-processed foods: study

University of Toronto research finds diet putting Canadian kids at risk of obesity

www.vernonmorningstar.com

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'm with you, don't get me wrong.

But I can guarantee you it is an issue in some places, having seen grossly obese Canadian Infantry Officers - for example - wearing CADPAT tents...

I'm sure we've all seen examples of that, and agree it's an issue, but I know personnally I was doing a lot of stress eating in my previous job when I was trying to cover for massive personnel shortages and still deliver on the support requirements.

There are a lot of positions where you can can get away from it, and it's definitely not healthy, but is a symptom of the chronic shortfall that is getting worse with the hiring freeze and budget cuts that was funding things like the contractors backfilling empty positions.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Could be that after years of cuts the folks doing the work don't have time for PT on work time anymore.

People say we should have forced PT, until all the admin slows down even more, and suddenly PT gets cut again.

I always find it interesting that the people most vocal about fitness tend to CBT arms folks who come from u it's that can afford to down tools multiple times during the week to schedule gym time. They tend to forget that most occupations don't have that luxury.

If we want change, the first change needs to be that unit PT is mandatory, and can not be cut for admin convenience.

I agree fully but the problem I see all the time is that the units will build the PT into their work days and then complain that the office isn't open, their paperwork isn't done fast enough, they call and can never reach anyone, etc. Don't tell me I have to do PT from 0800h to 0930h then complain I am not in the office especially when you are the CO or RSM wanting me to do your job. Also don't schedule an hour plus for PT and then add additional hours of work for me and my staff on top of it.

The CAF has to make up it's mind. Either you want us doing the PT and accept that means less work in a day or accept that your support staff is not going to be at the fitness level you would like.

Without a serious impact to daily ops, we can’t mandate PT everyday. It would likely mean half of the lines we fly a day would be lost, and we need those lines to force generate.

Fitness is a personal responsibility. If you have time during work hours, great. I will never prevent someone from going to the gym. Otherwise, do it outside working hours. If you don’t workout and pass the FORCE test, great. This is our standard and most of the trades I manage don’t really need more.

There is a simple solution which allows the mandatory PT as well as getting the work done… just extend the workday either earlier or later.

Unpopular? Yes. Is it likely necessary with how poor shape most the CAF is? Also yes.

The CAF tried the hands off approach and it has gotten worse as time progressed, maybe it’s time for the tried and true group PT method.

 

[dapaterson]

Next you'll say folks who don't get fitness tested and are more than a year out of date should face remedial measures. And that folks not meeting the minimum standards should be released.

 

[Furniture]

There is a simple solution which allows the mandatory PT as well as getting the work done… just extend the workday either earlier or later.

Unpopular? Yes. Is it likely necessary with how poor shape most the CAF is? Also yes.

The CAF tried the hands off approach and it has gotten worse as time progressed, maybe it’s time for the tried and true group PT method.

Nothing will fix retention like longer work days...

Remember, the trades hurting the most are the trades where people have civilian options. Making the CAF suck more will just make them less inclined to join or stay.

The CAF needs to determine how serious it is about fitness, then make the necessary sacrifices elsewhere to make it a priority. Right now everything in the CAF is a priority, meaning nothing is.

 

[Ludoc]

100%, if PT is important, then it is important enough to do during work hours. If having to set aside time for PT lowers operational outputs then we, as leaders, should send that message up the chain. The chain then has three choices:
1. we do less operational stuff but have fit troops;
2. we reach all operational goals but have unfit troops; or
3. we have no troops because they all got out after we filled their day with tasks and then forced them to do PT on what should be personal time.

We have been doing 2&3 for a long time.

Not being able to find time for the troops to do PT during the day means it is not important. The troops pick up on that.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The issue is the whole of the CAF doesn't view fitness as a principal part of their job. As equal to their performance as turning wrenches or keystrokes. We need to force it into our culture and burn it into our planning processes.

I would also argue as important as primary function and fitness is ones ability to safely and adequately operate the primary rifle and sidearm of th CAF.

@Ludoc is also correct. The beast that is Ops needs to be reigned in and made realize it is a codependent part of the equation, not the equation itself.

 

[Underway]

The best PT is scheduled unit PT. And not "fun sports day" stuff but circuit training. Three times a week (everyday is preferable). I have been plenty of places and done plenty of different approaches to fitness, and the one that is consistent and gets the job done every time is the one where everyone who's not duty shows up and sweats it out for an hour. Starts at 730 you're checking your emails by 9. Make it part of the unit battle rhythm and it becomes a happy chore.

Significant gains and performance on the annual test. Better moral and esprit de corps in the unit.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The best PT is scheduled unit PT. And not "fun sports day" stuff but circuit training. Three times a week (everyday is preferable). I have been plenty of places and done plenty of different approaches to fitness, and the one that is consistent and gets the job done every time is the one where everyone who's not duty shows up and sweats it out for an hour. Starts at 730 you're checking your emails by 9. Make it part of the unit battle rhythm and it becomes a happy chore.

Significant gains and performance on the annual test. Better moral and esprit de corps in the unit.

 

[captloadie]

I'm not going to argue against the health benefits of regular exercise. It has been proven scientifically to benefit the species, in combination with a good diet, adequate sleep, and some sort of ability to destress.

However - what is the definition you want to put in to place to define what someone in the CAF being fit is? Alot of the time, that definition really has nothing to do with what they can accomplish physically, its what they look like right? Those who complain the most about the CAF being unfit never have any data to base this argument on except what people look like in uniform. What if a pudgy, 5'4" person can run marathons, easily do the 1 hr of circuit training, operate a primary weapon safely but looks "unfit" in uniform, does it matter? Compare them to the 5'10" beanpole who can do all the same, but never pushes themselves past the minimum they are capable of? Who is more operationally fit?

One other point. Why is it always PT first and then back to whatever ones job is (office, flight-line, station). Why not go in, get the work done, and at 3:00, everyone drops tools, does PT, and then goes home? Most areas of work are busiest in the morning, and taper off. We don't often tell people to come in late because things are slow, but often cut people lose early. Plus you lose that time getting ready to start the day after PT. Do it at the end of the day, it gets people to stop thinking of work before they head home, can be a destressor, and you don't need to get all cleaned up again.

 

[Underway]

One other point. Why is it always PT first and then back to whatever ones job is (office, flight-line, station). Why not go in, get the work done, and at 3:00, everyone drops tools, does PT, and then goes home? Most areas of work are busiest in the morning, and taper off. We don't often tell people to come in late because things are slow, but often cut people lose early. Plus you lose that time getting ready to start the day after PT. Do it at the end of the day, it gets people to stop thinking of work before they head home, can be a destressor, and you don't need to get all cleaned up again.

I have my PT scheduled at 3pm right now. Usually because I go home, pick up the kid and then we both go to the YMCA. That's a perfectly good sched. Also pre-lunch PT is a great one as well. But I will say this, end of day PT often turns into "get errands done for the evening early" time if its not supervised.

 

[KevinB]

The best PT is scheduled unit PT.

I despise unit PT, but not unit PT timings.

And not "fun sports day" stuff but circuit training. Three times a week (everyday is preferable). I have been plenty of places and done plenty of different approaches to fitness, and the one that is consistent and gets the job done every time is the one where everyone who's not duty shows up and sweats it out for an hour. Starts at 730 you're checking your emails by 9. Make it part of the unit battle rhythm and it becomes a happy chore.

PT should be an everyday activity for any personnel in uniform. But ideally at is a small group activity for most of the time.

I despise running in groups beyond like 5-6 as the pace ends up being awful for some, and the same goes for circuits as individuals are individual, what is a good workout for some will be too much for others or a tedious bore for others.

I agree that circuit training/cross functional fitness methods are preferable. I’d also suggest that some PT needs to be tailored as applicable to one’s trade/position.

While I’m a big fan of individual PT, it is often either abused or skipped (other priorities) so

Significant gains and performance on the annual test. Better moral and esprit de corps in the unit.

I’m also a big fan of harnessing the competitive spirit. Be it Section v Section or Platoon v Platoon and higher.

While I thought the ‘Warrior’ Badge was rather tacky I thought the idea behind it had merit - something along the lines of a trade/element relevant annual PT competition with some sort of incentive to high achievers both individually and larger groups.

Heck hold an annual CAF Combat Cross Functional Fitness challenge as well.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not going to argue against the health benefits of regular exercise. It has been proven scientifically to benefit the species, in combination with a good diet, adequate sleep, and some sort of ability to destress.

However - what is the definition you want to put in to place to define what someone in the CAF being fit is? Alot of the time, that definition really has nothing to do with what they can accomplish physically, its what they look like right? Those who complain the most about the CAF being unfit never have any data to base this argument on except what people look like in uniform. What if a pudgy, 5'4" person can run marathons, easily do the 1 hr of circuit training, operate a primary weapon safely but looks "unfit" in uniform, does it matter? Compare them to the 5'10" beanpole who can do all the same, but never pushes themselves past the minimum they are capable of? Who is more operationally fit?

I think the FORCE test captures data and measures it. And this creates our fitness rates. I stand to be corrected.

I personally couldn't care less about looks, what I want is performance and stamina.

One other point. Why is it always PT first and then back to whatever ones job is (office, flight-line, station). Why not go in, get the work done, and at 3:00, everyone drops tools, does PT, and then goes home? Most areas of work are busiest in the morning, and taper off. We don't often tell people to come in late because things are slow, but often cut people lose early. Plus you lose that time getting ready to start the day after PT. Do it at the end of the day, it gets people to stop thinking of work before they head home, can be a destressor, and you don't need to get all cleaned up again.

As long as honest PT is being done, I don't care what time it is at.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I despise running in groups beyond like 5-6 as the pace ends up being awful for some, and the same goes for circuits as individuals are individual, what is a good workout for some will be too much for others or a tedious bore for others.

As much as it is a pain in the arse to run/exercise as a group (preferably keeping it to a sect quantity, maybe a pl), I used to approach the activity from two perspectives. The primary was, of course, physical fitness; the secondary was to evaluate/stimulate leadership potential and teamwork.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I think the FORCE test captures data and measures it. And this creates our fitness rates. I stand to be corrected.

I personally couldn't care less about looks, what I want is performance and stamina.

Your not necessarily getting honest data from the FORCE test. For example, I purposely made a point of getting everything done in the maximum amount of time to show how ridiculous this test was. When it is simply pass or fail I saw no incentive to perform above the minimum to pass.

 

[Quirky]

Your not necessarily getting honest data from the FORCE test. For example, I purposely made a point of getting everything done in the maximum amount of time to show how ridiculous this test was. When it is simply pass or fail I saw no incentive to perform above the minimum to pass.

No SCRIT points for getting Silver/Gold/Platinum showing you're dedicated to personal wellbeing and fitness, which means you're less likely to be prone for injury. However you get a point for being voluntold (in most cases) as base honour guard or hang out at the mess meetings being a secretary. CAF doesn't care about fitness.

 

[dapaterson]

FORCE is a test to confirm compliance with U of S.

If an environment or branch or occupation can define other requirements necessary to perform their duties, they could test for those as well.

But the multitudes who fail to take even that minimal compliance test should be facing administrative actions up to and including release.

 

[Fabius]

No SCRIT points for getting Silver/Gold/Platinum showing you're dedicated to personal wellbeing and fitness, which means you're less likely to be prone for injury. However you get a point for being voluntold (in most cases) as base honour guard or hang out at the mess meetings being a secretary. CAF doesn't care about fitness.

When FORCE was first introduced the plan was for Silver/Gold/Platinum to have scrit points associated. However those levels are heavily influenced by age and gender, which meant the same levels of pure physical performance were not being equally rewarded.

Linking scrit points to the FORCE levels did not survive contact due to that.