Redcoat dress uniforms

[Spr.Earl]

Originally posted by Recce41:
[qb] I have the most of complete rundown.
Chapnue : Earl we were both wrong. This is the French word for the helmet. Worn by early Carabiners/Lancers.
Vlanta/ Attila: short Hussar Tunic.
"Busby": British Hussar Helmet
Kaskett: east Europe Hussars Helmet
Pelisse: Hussar Cloak
Tarleton: Dragoon/Lancer tall brass or leather Helmet.
Dolmon: Hussar long heavy jacket
Great coat: well we all know this.
Tunic: British Jacket worn by all.
Kempy Southern French wording: the helmet or hat worn at RMC, can be with or without neck cover or peak. (Pill box) given by the British, these were issued to soldier when they were in the pill box. Due the tall hemlets could not be worn.
Wolseley: the first version is as RMC picture (white). Second version is what the RCR scarlets wear. These were designed by Gen Wolseley in India. The first were issued with or without spike.
There are more but this covers in away Regts of Canada. This is from Uniforms of Great Armies of the World (Gallery Books). The dates I cover are 1780s-1890s. This covers British armys. The book is from the 1500s to modern day. There are West and East European names for kit. If anyone needs more just E mail me. Like I said, I am starting to collect earlier kit. If anyone collects early kit. Give me a mail. Mike I know you collect WW2. I am looking for another WW1/1880 tunic.
There is a WO that collects Germain 1880-1919 kit. But I‘m looking for British.

:evil: :tank: [/qb]

Recce41 you forgot the Cardigan!

 

[Recce41]

Cardigan, is not listed as issued dress. I have gone through most my books of uniforms. Only Cardigan that is listed is Sir Cardigan. The Charge of the LT Bge,Cardigan.

 

[Spr.Earl]

On the right track.
I posted it as you listed part‘s of old Uniform‘s around the World.

 

[Recce41]

I checked it because some commanders dressed their own troops. Smart A55. IE Wellington, had all his staff officers wear a low boot. Called of course by the name Wellies. And we all miss things.

 

[Recce41]

As for the picture, is that a lil hottie in the middle? HAHA.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Originally posted by Recce41:
[qb] I checked it because some commanders dressed their own troops. Smart A55. IE Wellington, had all his staff officers wear a low boot. Called of course by the name Wellies. And we all miss things. [/qb]

Yes your right,Lord Cardigan dressed the Light Brigade.
The Cardigan was the waist jacket worn ever the left shoulder in Light Cavelry Reg.‘s.

In the U.K. a button up sweater is still called a cardigan.

As for Blondie I‘ll hold comment as I‘ll get in trouble But Numm Nummm Numm

 

[Recce41]

Earl
The cloak/jacket was called or may have been called a Pelisse or a Vlanta/ Attila also.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Great link, Colonel Goebel....!!!

 

[Spr.Earl]

Originally posted by Recce41:
[qb] Earl
The cloak/jacket was called or may have been called a Pelisse or a Vlanta/ Attila also. [/qb]

Yes with other Countries.

But with in the Brit.Light Cavelry it was and is known as a Cardigan.

As far as I know.
Correct me if I‘m wrong.

 

[Recce41]

Thats why I posted was or may! These names came from the British pages.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Originally posted by Recce41:
[qb] Thats why I posted was or may! These names came from the British pages. [/qb]

Ooop‘s I reread your post.
Forgive my presumption .

I have a friend who has collected old Military Post Card‘s of all the old Regiment‘s in full parade dress and I was over at his place to night and I‘m trying to convince him to post them here as they will settle many argument‘s that we have and are having.


He and I argued about the Busby also.
Big mistake!! He pull‘s out his book‘s and his collection of post card‘s and goes your wrong but right!LOL


Some of his Post Card‘s go back to 1901 with stamp‘s and the message‘s on the back‘s!

 

[Recce41]

These are the books I looked through.
1. Uniforms of great Armys of the World. Galley Books
2. Uniforms of the British Empire 1700-present (1980s)Brook Books
3. Uniforms of Europian Armies. a lil old Royal Books
4. History of the British Army. Britainy Books

 

[W. Hall]

I think I know what you are referring to - re: Red tunic, black vest and pants and I‘ve uploaded a picture (of two of us) so attired here:

http://www.paradesquare.ca/bpcrr/messkit.jpg

This is a "customary" Officers‘ Mess Kit c.2003 and is not issued to the CF, rather the member must order it made according to CF Specs. ($500 - $1000). Fortuitous for many, the standard walking-out dress with white shirt, bow tie and decorations, are always acceptable at formal mess functions.

 

[portcullisguy]

Mess kit/dress is the military equivalent to "black tie" (or even "white tie", which is pretty uncommon). It is the most ostentatious and formal order of dress, normally worn for evening events. Usually, only officers attend these sorts of events, and so it is uncommon to find NCM‘s wearing it. But it does occur, I‘m sure.

A regiment‘s ‘scarlets‘ or Full Dress is the equivalent of "Morning Dress" or "Formal Day Dress", and is normally worn for day-time events such as a formal church parade, Remembrance Day ceremony, etc. This is the next most-formal style of dress, and I am sure that some regiments don‘t have them because of budgetary reasons.

DEU‘s are like wearing a business suit, and are suitable for the majority of occasions and events.

And we all know and love our everyday working dress... combats.

I know, I know, there used to be all sorts of variations and orders of dress, but this is the best I can summarize our current orders of dress as they are right now.

And, I didn‘t even bother including navy/air force, as I know nothing about either. I have seen navy reservists dressed up formally only once, and they appeared to have some sort of double-breasted black coat with shiny brass buttons, but have no idea if that‘s as formal as it gets for them.

 

[Infanteer]

No one does uniforms better than the United States Marine Corps...here is a good chart explaining the complexities of dress states pretty similar to ours.

USMC Dress Regs

 

[The_Falcon]

Portiscully Guy, Senior NCO‘s can were Mess Dress, I have seen the RSM and Mac wearing it at some point. We also have the Patrol Dress (Dress Blues) it is rarely seen anymore, you have to get it at your own expense. You will sometimes see an officer wearing at Rememberance day (The Honourary Colonel wears it). But junior ranks wear it too. Last time was the 110th anniversay.

 

[portcullisguy]

Hey nice to see you on here Falcon... err... Cpl...

Apparently, I‘ve been told, that mess dress is authorized for jr‘s as well, but good luck ever needing to. I haven‘t yet seen anyone wearing the Dress Blues, and I would imagine they cost a load. Is it still with the kilt?

 

[The_Falcon]

Yup everything is with the kilt, as for the cost of the dress blues, i have no clue. All I know is you can get them at Richardsons. Probably 500-2000. And no need to use rank here

 

[zortag]

I get the distinct impression that I‘m walking into the lion‘s den here but I‘ll throw down my 2c anyways.

The original confusion seems to have come from the distinction between Mess Dress and Full Dress.

Mess dress is always worn open with a shirt + bowtie and the jacket has tails on it.

Full Dress is buttoned up short jacket without tails.

Also earlier, someone was referring to the pillbox as a Kepi. As far as I know, Kepi is french for wedge. Just thought I‘d add to the confusion.

Also a quick question. For those of us too poor to own mess kit, at mess dinners we wear #1 dress with a white shirt and a bowtie. Can you wear a wingtip shirt or does it have to be a normal collar?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Yup, it‘s a lion‘s den. ;-)

Current standard pattern Army mess dress does not have tails on either the red doeskin or the white linen (optional summer variation)jackets. The red is worn with waistcoat, the white with regimental cummerbund.

Full dress, to simplify the description, is the replica dress of the british army‘s ‘redcoat‘, standard soldier attire well into the 19th Century. Length approximately to the hips, full buttoned with regimental buttons, high closed collar.

My French-English dictionary actually translayes "kepi" as a "peaked cap." This would be, then, a forage cap with fairly rigid body and a visor, of which we can find many variations on the actual design.

And the issue of wingtip versus full collar with Mess Kit or service dress - that is usually in accordance with regimental custom. Some regiments have detailed one or the other in their Regimental Standing orders to ensure some degree of conformity.


Mike