Reg.Unit creating a Class B (Not mata/pata related) how to go about it?possible?

[PMedMoe]

Also the reserve pay as of this moment is 85% of Reg Force pay.  There is an expectation soon that for Class A/B it's going to increase to 93% of Reg Force pay

I find it great how I can do the same job as my Reg Force counterpart, but get 15% less pay.

So because I can hand in a 30 day notice and back out of my job, I should be paid less?

But lets not turn this into a "why reserve pay should be equalized" discussion.

But it's okay for you to do it?

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Responses to my posts and quotes about me are placed up, yes I'm going to respond.

 

[aesop081]

Class B is still 85%.So because I can hand in a 30 day notice and back out of my job, I should be paid less?

You are on contract and have obligations. But they are specific obligations. Job A at location B, thats it.

A RegF contract is " wherever, whatever, whenever the CF wants " thats a huge difference.

The fact that you can quit anytime is not the only factor of course. Like i said, you dont worry about postings to locations/jobs you dont like, you dont worry about courses you dont want and you pick you deployements to fit your life, not the other way around.

However, the exact same expectations are put upon me in the job I do. 

No there is not. You are not expected to leave job A for job B at a base on the other side of the country on short notice (or otherwise). You are not expected to be employed out of trade unless you so wish.

 

[Sig_Des]

ONLY if you are on contract and, correct me if i am wrong, on Class C you make the same pay as a RegF member. If you are on Class A and decide you would rather go skiing today then go do drill at you unit, you don't have to show up.

I'm glad that's the case. But the fact remains that you can quit anytime you want while a RegF member cannot.

There's truth, and some degrees of separation here. Yes, on class C you are making the same as your RegF counterparts.

Now, not sure about the reference, I'm not off leave for a while, so don't have access to the CANFORGENs. IIRC there was one that stated that while on contracts, Class B/C, while you have to provide 30 days notice prior to a cancellation of contract, for operational reasons, they could hold off on releasing you from your contract. See if I can find it, somewhere.

I can tell you that when I was a Reservist on long-term class B/C, I WAS required to show up for work 24/7/365. I was on a team that was sent away from home, for long periods of time, on VERY short notice. There is a clause for this when you sign your contract's Statement of Understanding, which states you may be required to travel to places inside and outside of Canada.

I know you'll understand this, CDN_Aviator, in one 365 period, I never spent more than 3 weeks at home at a time.

Now, as far as quitting anytime. Yes, if you don't like it, you can put in a notice for cancellation of contract, but you must give 30-days notice. Here's the kicker. Cancel a contract, and you don't have reasons for it, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Most OPS cells in Res units will notice this, and will not entertain or support any new applications for class B's.

While on class B, you are held to the same standards, can be charged for the same things, and suffer the same consequences as in Reg Units.

Class A, well, that's a whole other bag.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

No there is not. You are not expected to leave job A for job B at a base on the other side of the country on short notice (or otherwise). You are not expected to be employed out of trade unless you so wish.

There is however the same expectation in job performance.  I am expected to get my reports and returns in on time and to the same standard as everyone else, as I was hired for a specific job.

As well, I can be employed out of my trade.  The contract I was given was to work at Base A, which means that at any point they can employ as they see fit on that base doing any job they deem me required to fulfill.

As for not having to go all over God's green earth as Sig_Des stated that's not true either.  My OC from the unit works on the same base I do and he is home more often now on a Class B since he retired from the Reg Force, than he ever was while in the Reg Force.  Especially since his workload went from about 2 jobs to 5 and has now settled back down to only 3.

I will agree there is a lot more flexibility on a Class B though.

 

[PMedMoe]

Des, I was in the (Air) reserves.  I did a Class B contract when I went for the base closures in Germany.  I certainly didn't complain about getting 15% less pay, I was just happy to be getting paid full time.  What did irk me is that we didn't get FSP.

 

[Shamrock]

I am on contract, so I do have an obligation.  Yes, Class C is 100% Reg Force pay.  Class B is still 85%.So because I can hand in a 30 day notice and back out of my job, I should be paid less?

I realize Cl B reservists get screwed out of dental and optical, but aren't there any other benefits available to them?  Leave?  R&Q?

Another question -- as you're Cl. B at your unit, do your regular support staff also have to put in the long days?  Work 8-4 followed by a parade night followed by a weekend ex?

 

[aesop081]

There is however the same expectation in job performance.  I am expected to get my reports and returns in on time and to the same standard as everyone else, as I was hired for a specific job.

BFD, Job performance is only one part of the equasion. You dont have the same conditions of service, plain and simple.

As well, I can be employed out of my trade.  The contract I was given was to work at Base A, which means that at any point they can employ as they see fit on that base doing any job they deem me required to fulfill.

I know very well that you can be employed out of trade. That was not my point. You have to WANT that employement. You have to willingly sign a class B or C contract. A regF member can be employed out of trade at any time, anywhere , wether he wants to or not.

 

[Sig_Des]

Des, I was in the (Air) reserves.  I did a Class B contract when I went for the base closures in Germany.  I certainly didn't complain about getting 15% less pay, I was just happy to be getting paid full time.  What did irk me is that we didn't get FSP.

I can appreciate that, Moe, and when you met me, I'm pretty sure I never complained about the pay either. In fact, I made the jump to the dark side.  >

I realize Cl B reservists get screwed out of dental and optical, but aren't there any other benefits available to them?  Leave?  R&Q?

Class B over 180 days does get dental and optical. Get a blue cross card, and must go through local MIR if there is one. Same leave. On long term class B's/C's, you can request assisted housing in PMQs.

Also, same as everything else, TD and FOA on travel.

There IS a lot more flexibility on a class B, especially as you will not be required to actually move, but they can still be subject to travel on short notice.

 

[PMedMoe]

I can appreciate that, Moe, and when you met me, I'm pretty sure I never complained about the pay either. In fact, I made the jump to the dark side.  >

Nope, you certainly didn't and glad you made the jump!

 

[dapaterson]

Des, I was in the (Air) reserves.  I did a Class B contract when I went for the base closures in Germany.  I certainly didn't complain about getting 15% less pay, I was just happy to be getting paid full time.  What did irk me is that we didn't get FSP.

I'd check that out - if you were on TD, no entitlement, but if posted, you should have received FSP.  And given that it's cumulative over your career, it might be worth following up on for future increments.

 

[PMedMoe]

I'd check that out - if you were on TD, no entitlement, but if posted, you should have received FSP.  And given that it's cumulative over your career, it might be worth following up on for future increments.

I have checked it out and no go.  I wasn't posted, I was on a Class B contract.  Two, as a matter of fact, as the tasking went over the end of the fiscal year.  I also did not get any of my reserve time counted (with the exception of my YTEP year - Class C) when I re-joined the RegF so some idiot (my opinion) in Ottawa screwed me over. 

 

[1feral1]

I find it great how I can do the same job as my Reg Force counterpart, but get 15% less pay.  Especially when I do more work since I'm still very active with my unit.  .

You are just kidding aren't you??

Attitudes such as this do nothing but promote disharmony, and coming from a person with a commission, that makes it worse.

This 'I work more' attitude is crap!


Cheers,

Wes

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

You are just kidding aren't you??

Attitudes such as this do nothing but promote disharmony, and coming from a person with a commission, that makes it worse.

This 'I work more' attitude is crap!


Cheers,

Wes

Personal choice for me to do so, so you're probably right that I shouldn't complain.  I don't have a bad attitude as I love my job and do my best to accomplish it in the best manor possible.  Personal opinion as well that reservists should be paid more than 85%, perhaps not 100% as the terms of service are different, but a little higher to equal couldn't hurt.

As for the "I work more" attitude.  Didn't mean for any of what I've said to come off as stating that I am any better than anyone else reserve or Reg.

 

[1feral1]

Personal choice for me to do so, so you're probably right that I shouldn't complain.  I don't have a bad attitude as I love my job and do my best to accomplish it in the best manor possible.  Personal opinion as well that reservists should be paid more than 85%, perhaps not 100% as the terms of service are different, but a little higher to equal couldn't hurt.

As for the "I work more" attitude.  Didn't mean for any of what I've said to come off as stating that I am any better than anyone else reserve or Reg.

I am not saying you have a bad attitude, just that over the top  'tit for tat'  us vs them attitude which is not only counter-productive, but childish, unprofessional, and quite frankly, conduct not becoming an officer, yet alone a professional soldier either full or part time.

Whatever happened to lead by example?

Suck it up, stop whinging, and soldier on, and be thankful you have a full time job doing something you like.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

I am not saying you have a bad attitude, just that over the top  'tit for tat'  us vs them attitude which is not only counter-productive, but childish, unprofessional, and quite frankly, conduct not becoming an officer, yet alone a professional soldier either full or part time.

Whatever happened to lead by example?

Suck it up, stop whinging, and soldier on, and be thankful you have a full time job doing something you like.

This was never about an us vs them discussion.  The reason why I have my job is that there is no Reg Force officer available to fill it, so I'm backfilling the position.  Anything that I've said has never been anything more than looking for the possibility of more benefits.  The fact that I work a full time class B no matter what hours are required, and then go to my unit on parade nights and weekend exercises makes me think perhaps a little more financial reward for helping out our unit be put in place.  This is not whining, but along the same lines of discussions for a bonus for a WO with 20 years to stay in another 5 so we can increase retention.  It's just a way to reward individuals for service.

To say I'm whining is putting a fairly poor attitude on the situation yourself.  If I don't get it, I'm not going to quit, but I'm sure there were people out there talking about the discussion of PLD and moving allowances that were told to "suck it up and soldier on".  To tell someone just be thankful you have a job is a terrible attitude in itself.  We should always strive to improve things in our lives.

 

[1feral1]

This was never about an us vs them discussion.  The reason why I have my job is that there is no Reg Force officer available to fill it, so I'm backfilling the position.  Anything that I've said has never been anything more than looking for the possibility of more benefits.  The fact that I work a full time class B no matter what hours are required, and then go to my unit on parade nights and weekend exercises makes me think perhaps a little more financial reward for helping out our unit be put in place.  This is not whining, but along the same lines of discussions for a bonus for a WO with 20 years to stay in another 5 so we can increase retention.  It's just a way to reward individuals for service.

To say I'm whining is putting a fairly poor attitude on the situation yourself.  If I don't get it, I'm not going to quit, but I'm sure there were people out there talking about the discussion of PLD and moving allowances that were told to "suck it up and soldier on".  To tell someone just be thankful you have a job is a terrible attitude in itself.  We should always strive to improve things in our lives.

So, you think since you work the odd weekned and parade night you should get more? Bloody hell, you are expected to work parade nights and weekends when required. What about the weekends you don't work? Maybe you should get less??

Listen, I've been on both sides of the fence.

I have a great attitude towards Defence. 32 yrs later, two armies, etc. I jsut don't have much time for whingers and bellyachers, adn thats what was going on here all In your own words.

There is nothing not to be thankful about. I have a full time job, good pay, free medical and dental, a bit of travel, been deployed, and yes I am very thankful indeed! Do I winge that I have been DO for almost a month straight. No I suck it up, and carry on. I volunteered for it.

Striving to improve and being demanding is not the same thing.

I am a SGT, yet an A/SSM, looking after a whole SQN of men. I get no extra $$ for that. Once, I worked 191 days without a day off. I go into the field on Ex for weeks on end, and I get my FOA, just like you, when you go into the field.

Regards,

One thankfully happy bloke to have a full time job,

Wes

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

I work for 15% less as it is, so sure, why not knock off another 35% if I don't work some weekends since in the minds of some individuals a reservist is only half a soldier anyway.

I've never demanded anything.  I do my share and whatever is asked of me.  But I'll be damned if I'm just going to sit around and always be content with the status quo.  If I get told no, then I get told no.  But when these exact same points are brought up to the Area Comd and he agrees with them, perhaps there is something to be looked at eh?

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Then suggest you forward your well-researched, reasoned, documented, factual and legal proposal, that demonstrates the inequity of differences in pay between components due to the exigencies of identical service, identical unlimited liability and identical mandates of service to the President of the Treasury Board for his consideration concerning pay policy for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces.  Sounds like you have some good points.

You can justify your proposal on the grounds of identical pay for identical service, right?

Me personally?  Probably not.  Not that up to date and in the know about all the nuances of selling such an idea.  Something I have been more recently trying to look into though, and something my OC has been fighting for and been giving me good information on.  As well as his own proposals going higher.

Who knows, things may never change, but why not ask.

 

[1feral1]

I work for 15% less as it is, so sure, why not knock off another 35% if I don't work some weekends since in the minds of some individuals a reservist is only half a soldier anyway.

I've never demanded anything.  I do my share and whatever is asked of me.  But I'll be damned if I'm just going to sit around and always be content with the status quo.  If I get told no, then I get told no.  But when these exact same points are brought up to the Area Comd and he agrees with them, perhaps there is something to be looked at eh?

Half the soldier? Reservists bleed just like Regulars, and possess bonds and bravery as a common virtue of all professional soldiers, either full or part-time, or part-timers on CL B or CL C service. Sadly both components have been KIA'd in the current ongoing war, so I don't by the 'us and them' attitude anymore. Anyone who says otherwise is shallow minded, and deserves a bloody nose as far as I am concerned.

To sum up, you are owned 24/7 until your contact is up, or you decide otherwise. if you have to work weekends and Tuesday nights, if you don't want to, others are keen to have your full time job.

A 15% pay cut, which gives you the advantage of not moving every two or three years, allowing your kids to have the same friends, attend the same school, your wife keeps the same job, and you get to keep that mortage going on the house you love, and live in the city you like, yet share many common benifits as Regulars do. Its a trade off, but the good still outweighs the bad overall. I was once CL B 'A' myself, so I am non-biased.