RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]

[Snaketnk]

OK how about when you are operational. 24/7 for up to 8 months. Are they going to pay overtime for that?

I don't care what the regs are, this is a silly argument. On tour you're doing work that's usually vitally important (in a small or a big way) to the mission at hand and indirectly the lives of Canadians. To equate THAT with sitting in an office at a reserve unit with no work to do "just because" is rubbish.

I'm firmly of the belief that you show up, do the work that needs to be done and be present for the things you need to be present and then GO HOME. But I'm a Cpl.

EDIT: I seem to have mis-interpreted the intent of that message, I didn't fully register who the author was. My apologies.

 

[mariomike]

Aside from a few part time minimum wage jobs, I have yet to have an employer who doesn't pay for a lunch break, of course, 40 hours per week with a paid 1hr break, or 35 with an unpaid break, still works out to the same working hours....

I worked for a corporation with 53,000 employees. "Inside" ( office ) workers were paid 35 hours per week, with a one hour unpaid "out of service" lunch every eight hours.

I was classified as an "outside" worker and therefore paid 40 hours per week, with a paid 30 minute "running" lunch
( between the 4th and 7.5 hours ) every twelve hour shift. *
* Edit to add ( Late / interrupted / missed meal breaks have always been typical for the job. However, there is now a negotiated practice of meal purchase allowances and overtime payments / penalties. )

Same employer, but different lunch policies for the inside versus outside workers.

 

[Monsoon]

OK how about when you are operational. 24/7 for up to 8 months. Are they going to pay overtime for that?

All compensated through the extraordinarily generous pay, benefits, and vacation package that we enjoy throughout our entire careers whether deployed or not, and further compensated by tax-free status, hardship allowances, etc while on deployment (and, of course, the privilege to serve). It is not, however, compensated with an unspoken understanding that people won't ask us to put in a full week when posted ashore or to a ship alongside (which will, of course, represent the overwhelming majority of most people's careers). Not to diminish the legitimacy of your current concern, hard work when deployed elsewhere doesn't count towards an on-going, low-level vacation the rest of the time.

 

[Journeyman]

All compensated through the extraordinarily generous pay, benefits, and vacation package that we enjoy throughout our entire careers whether deployed or not, and further compensated by tax-free status, hardship allowances, etc while on deployment (and, of course, the privilege to serve). It is not, however, compensated with an unspoken understanding that people won't ask us to put in a full week when posted ashore or to a ship alongside (which will, of course, represent the overwhelming majority of most people's careers). Not to diminish the legitimacy of your current concern, hard work when deployed elsewhere doesn't count towards an on-going, low-level vacation the rest of the time.

:goodpost:

But you did say that you were going to bow out because 'common sense' wasn't a factor....... 

 

[Stoker]

The RSS staff at most of the NAVRES units are intergal to the running of the unit. I do believe the OP is a stoker and part of his duties are usually the building mgr. Quite a few units like the building mgr around when the building is actually open for example training nights.
As well most NAVRES units do not have a lot of senior people there in the engineering department and often look to the expertise of the reg force stoker there again during training nights. How about volunteering to come in on training nights and actually mentor the young MESO's there? This way it might be more palatable to your COC to allow you time off.
From what I can see you are are posted to a unit where the COC relies of their regular force personnel and expects max participation.
If I can give any advice to you is still work the CTO angle, don't burn your bridges and if that doesn't work do your 3 years and get posted back to the coast.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

I have been out a very  long time and was a full time reservist for over 5 years and have worked in the Reg Force world and the Res Force world during my  various call outs.
At the Army HQ there was no CTO or any  time off given in my section to equal out the time we spent doing the Res Parade nights at the HQ, it was Thursday  night from 1900 till 2230 every  week and one weekend a month. Other sections were given CTO or time off to do admin, my  section was not given any, it was up the section commander to decide if CTO was given ( I worked in a section where I was the only  person who did my  trade and was told it was part of the job, deal  with or I would be replaced. My  opinion was of that  I was a FIN clk in ADM clk world and did not know what  I did, thought I was Adm clerk who did not do typing or other Adm work, but they  could nto do a travel claim if they  tried).
When I was tasked to work at the Res Regiment, I was told my  work day started at  0700 for PT Tuesday to Friday  till 1600
On parade nights I was expected in my  office for 1900 till 2200 ( usually had to do some paper work and set up the sign in location so I started at 1830 )two times a week, Tuesdays and Fridays, plus training weekends, at least one a month. To make up for this extra time I was given Mondays off, which was great since I lived in barracks, I had full use of both washers and dryers during the day , could get all my  kit cleaned and ready  for the week coming.  I ended up working more weekends as the COs driver but he made up the extra time by  giving me short leave , or telling me to fill out a leave pass but it would only  count if I was hurt or something else came out.  When I came back off this unoffical leave the pass would be tossed and  the days off would be forgotten about as if they  never took place.
I have worked in both worlds and the Mondays off each week were great but not every  CO would be as willing to do that.

 

[Pusser]

All compensated through the extraordinarily generous pay, benefits, and vacation package that we enjoy throughout our entire careers whether deployed or not, and further compensated by tax-free status, hardship allowances, etc while on deployment (and, of course, the privilege to serve). It is not, however, compensated with an unspoken understanding that people won't ask us to put in a full week when posted ashore or to a ship alongside (which will, of course, represent the overwhelming majority of most people's careers). Not to diminish the legitimacy of your current concern, hard work when deployed elsewhere doesn't count towards an on-going, low-level vacation the rest of the time.

The OP is not in any way asking for additional time off or an easy ride.  His beef is that he feels he is being asked to do more than his fair share and I agree with him.  It's perfectly OK to expect him to be at the unit on training nights and on training weekends, but at the same time, he should be allowed to not report for duty until noon on those weekdays that he has to stay on for the evenings.  He should also be allowed days off during the week to account for lost weekends.  The only thing unreasonable about this request is its denial.

On the pay issue, I will concede that it is generous, but it is by no means extraordinary.  Furthermore, very little time at sea is ever compensated with a tax-free allowance.  The tax-free allowances only apply to a limited number of operations.  Sailors can spend years at sea drawing only Sea Duty Allowance, which is fully taxable.  In all of my approximately 738 days at sea, not one of them was tax-free.

 

[Stoker]

The OP is not in any way asking for additional time off or an easy ride.  His beef is that he feels he is being asked to do more than his fair share and I agree with him.  It's perfectly OK to expect him to be at the unit on training nights and on training weekends, but at the same time, he should be allowed to not report for duty until noon on those weekdays that he has to stay on for the evenings.  He should also be allowed days off during the week to account for lost weekends.  The only thing unreasonable about this request is its denial.

Sometimes you don't get extra time off. In my trade we often have to work late while everyone has gone home and have to work in foregin port when some piece of gear breaks down. Its the nature of the trade. A lot of times we don't get compensated, its nice when we do but its not expected.
I sympathize with the OP that its not fair and he maybe won't be able to get this changed. If he feels that strongly call the CM and see if the posting can be changed, I'm sure he will have lots of volunteers.

 

[Pusser]

Sometimes you don't get extra time off. In my trade we often have to work late while everyone has gone home and have to work in foregin port when some piece of gear breaks down. Its the nature of the trade. A lot of times we don't get compensated, its nice when we do but its not expected.
I sympathize with the OP that its not fair and he maybe won't be able to get this changed. If he feels that strongly call the CM and see if the posting can be changed, I'm sure he will have lots of volunteers.

There's a difference between working extra time in order to meet an operational requirement and working(?) extra time because someone feels it necessary to be present (vice doing anything constructive).

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Pusser, obviously we have lots of folk who aren't smart enough to make that distinction.................

 

[Monsoon]

Pusser, obviously we have lots of folk who aren't smart enough to make that distinction.................

He's not making widgets in a factory, he's providing a leadership, acting as a primary point of contact and serving as a resource for mostly everything. My least favourite aspect of returning to class "A" life was fielding phone calls and email at my civilian job from people at HQ and other units who couldn't reach the full-time staff at my unit because they were on leave/taking CTO/at the bank/picking up their daughter early from school because obviously their spouse (who had a "real" job) couldn't do that/etc. 90% of reserve unit life is being there when someone's trying to reach you.

I'm sure if the OP staffs up a solution that mitigates for this effect by making sure there's coverage by a senior day staff member who's prepared to put out fires related to his colleague's portfolios at all times during the work week, then he'll be able to effect the change he's looking for.

 

[MARS]

wesleyd, where is your Staff Officer on this?  (Or Training Officer or XO - whoever the full-time, RegF or Class B officer is at your unit)  That person is your DivO and should be the conduit to Command here.  There should be between 9 and 11 full-time staff at your Unit.  All of them - including the Staff Officer - should be subject to these same expectations.  Is this an issue among the entire day staff?  If not, why not?  How are they mitigating these requirements?  Unless your personal circumstances are so unique that they don't apply to the rest of the staff, this shouldn't be falling all on your to resolve.

Regards,

MARS

 

[wesleyd]

The RSS staff at most of the NAVRES units are intergal to the running of the unit. I do believe the OP is a stoker and part of his duties are usually the building mgr. Quite a few units like the building mgr around when the building is actually open for example training nights.
As well most NAVRES units do not have a lot of senior people there in the engineering department and often look to the expertise of the reg force stoker there again during training nights. How about volunteering to come in on training nights and actually mentor the young MESO's there? This way it might be more palatable to your COC to allow you time off.
From what I can see you are are posted to a unit where the COC relies of their regular force personnel and expects max participation.
If I can give any advice to you is still work the CTO angle, don't burn your bridges and if that doesn't work do your 3 years and get posted back to the coast.

I do come in on every training night, and mentor when I can if there is people there to do so.

 

[wesleyd]

First thanks for the replies and points of view. We have reached an understanding at the unit now regarding day staff and Reg force. And it appears to be fair , I think, to everyone. It has command support so that is the main thing. I really enjoy working at this unit and don't want to spend the next 3/4 years arguing about this.
We have formulated that for training evenings we can accumulate the hours up to 48 hrs and take up to 2 days short per month, as per leave manual and CSO's. In addition if we have admin to do the day after a training admin night we can take up to two hours for that without any paperwork. For the monthly training Saturday we can take one of the short days as well. And if we have any admin to do our HOD's are able to grant the time to do so accordingly. We also have 1 hour per day of PT during working hours that can be used at anytime to allow the offices to be staffed at all times. I think that this is the most fair outcome of the situation. I understand that Reserves are part time and that when they come in for training they need to get the most value out of that short window of training time they have. I fully support the unit and give 110% at all times. For example I even taught for the forenoon this week end. Even though this is not in my scope of responsibilities as the facility manager I do enjoy it and like to pass on any knowledge I have gained throughout the years bobbing around on the ocean.
Thanks again everyone the insight is appreciated.

 

[Stoker]

I do come in on every training night, and mentor when I can if there is people there to do so.

Sounds like you have everything straightened out and my hat goes to you for helping out in the engineering department. Some of the units do not have that kind of expertise.

 

[Hotwire]

Good morning,

As I am RSS, and have been for 3 years now. A Lot of things have come to light to me in regards to this job and its duties. Previously my understanding was that RSS was a sort of mentoring and "Fill in" role. Meaning, that the RSS would help develop the troops in the unit, Keeping a state of equilibrium, And filling in for the duties where the CoC (In both directions). Now that I have been doing this job for so long, the realization as to just what RSS means to the RES Units. None of what I thought I new was true.

-We're used as GD's
-We're expected to do the job of EVERY soldier in EVERY rank level
-We're held responsible for the short comings
-We're to give recognition to the member we replaced for the good job we did
-We're held to the highest standard and given the highest of expectations
-Our "Equal" Res Counter part(s) do not seem to be held to ANY standard or any expectation
-Our admin is the lowest in priority (Iv seen promotions lost due to bad Res. admin)

Maybe Its just me, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, or just in the wrong unit.

You tell me!

 

[Michael OLeary]

Just like in the Regular Force, not every unit is the same. You are taking about your views and experiences from only one end of a very broad spectrum.

 

[Hotwire]

I'm sure your right, Hence why I asked if I was just in the wrong unit. I'm guessing, circumstances, and positions also dictate in regards to these issues as well.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It would appear Mr O'Leary put the whole thing in a nutshell for you.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Back in the 80’s the RSS gave stability to the unit and dealt with the day to day issues. They all took part in tasks as required due to the small number of RSS and Class B (3x RSS and 2x Class b on average). The RSS mentored soldiers within their rank structure and helped individuals with postings and tasks. I would say that 90% of the RSS staff I met were excellent and important to both myself and the unit. Not everyone is cut out to be RSS staff and it requires a unique skill set.