Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP)-RMC 2000 - 2018 [Merged]

[PuckChaser]

Hi, I have dutifully searched this thread and haven't found the answer to this.

My kid is interested in doing an undergraduate degree via the ROTP (3-4 years), followed by law school (3 yrs). I've read the replies about scholarships, etc. He is highly motivated to get the law degree and doesn't want to just wait and hope he gets some kind of extraordinary scholarship (but is an A+ student, so it's not impossible). So his question is this:

Can someone complete an undergraduate degree via the ROTP, take a leave/deferral to complete law school (at his own expense), and THEN begin his required years of service?
Thanks!

What you're asking about is Leave Without Pay. The leave manual has some info (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap8), but I'll draw your attention to the points to consider:

8.1.06 Points to Consider
Before recommending or approving any period of LWOP, the following points should be considered:

the reason for the LWOP;
whether the CF can forego the services of the member for the period of LWOP;
whether there are better alternatives to achieve the aim;
the performance and conduct of the member;
whether there will be significant periods during the term of LWOP when the member, upon request, could be returned to duty;
whether the period of LWOP should be counted for promotion purposes with reference to CFAO 11-6, Commissioning and Promotion Policy-Officers-Regular Force or CFAO 49-4, Career Policy Non-Commissioned Members Regular Force;
whether or not the requirements of DAOD 5019-8, Private Debts, should preclude granting LWOP; and
whether or not the member is undergoing a period of obligatory service.

I've bolded a couple for you. There is an option in the CAF to obtain a law degree while serving, called the Military Legal Training Plan. That is going to come up as the better alternative to the CAF to achieve your son's aim. It would also not be automatic that he be accepted into MLTP, and would have to be a top performer in his chosen trade. He's also going to incur more obligatory service as the CAF is paying for his law school, as well as having to extend his terms of service to be able to complete that new obligation.

You've raised a complicated question, but based on my personal experience in the CAF, there's no real incentive for the CAF let your son take 3 years off to get a law degree he's not going to use for up to 5 years while he's in another trade completing obligatory service.

 

[dapaterson]

Does your son want to become a lawyer?  If so, then there is no direct path through ROTP to become one.  If enrolled in ROTP he would be enrolled in a military occupation, and there is no ROTP entry for lawyers.

Perhaps if you can explain his desired end-state we can provide ideas and suggestions; you've outlined a conceptual process without explaining what he wants to achieve at the end of it.

 

[FJAG]

I was with the Legal branch for over twenty years before I retired and no one went through the system the way that you would prefer.

Simply put, the branch gets enough legal officers by virtue of the direct enrollment system meaning that the individual has already completed both his/her undergraduate and legal education at their own expense. This is a low cost system that allows the branch to evaluate lawyers with a proven track record for education and--probably--legal experience.

The concept behind the MLTP is to take officers who have been in other occupations in the military and provide them with a legal education at the crown's cost. The benefit for the branch is that it obtains a legal officer who has had some diverse form of military experience that will enable him/her to have more breadth of knowledge. Again the branch gets to select from people with proven educational and employment experience.

There is no advantage for the branch in funding someone to have both their undergraduate and legal education in the way that you describe. In essence they are hiring a high school student with a need for seven-eight years of post secondary education still to be done.

I strongly suggest that you look at a better Plan B. If he does wish to go to ROTP then he should do it with the expectation that he will serve out his obligatory service in whatever occupation he was recruited into (non-legal) and that his possibility of later being put on an MLTP is an outside chance.

If you have any further questions, I'll be happy to answer them on this thread or by way of a PM.

:cheers:

 

[FreshCannon]

Hello everyone. I am new here. I am also new to the program but it is looking promising that i will be accepted into the ROTP program for the following year, according to the recruiters.

Last weekend I had a very unfortunate situation. I was given a ticket for open liquor by a local police officer.

I have an inclination to dispute the ticket in court for two reasons:

1) I did not have open liquor on me. It was a very weird situation. The long and short of it is that there were three of us, two of which had a beer in hand, one (myself) who did not. We were about 5 minutes away from our apartment where we were going to sleep. The two with an open beer were let go but the officer lied and said he saw me throw my beer off the overpass and so arrested me and ticketed me. My friends starred is belief as they were left with their open beer cans and I was hauled away.

2) I am very worried that if I just pay this ticket to make it go away than I am going to jeopardize my ROTP future.

The court date is the 28th of December. I don't want to pay it out of principle but I also just want it to be over with. Spending 6 hours sober in the "drunk tank" was brutal enough. Having a police officer lie to my face and disregard my word was a spit in the face and the $200 ticket sucks this time of year. But my only real concern is the impact any of this could have to my future.

Any advice?

 

[anthoniibr]

I am in the stages of starting my aptitude test and I have run into a huge problem. My test is set for Monday, January 8th, 2018, the same day I go back to high school after my Christmas break. The problem is I need people to sign part of my form as references and I can't get them before the 8th. After reading it I was planning to use my teachers as references but I cant do it because the only time I would be able to see them would be after the break. I emailed my recruiter but stupidly left it at 9:00 pm when they close around 4:00 pm so he won't be able to see it until he comes back on the 8th, the day of my aptitude test. I can't believe I gave myself no time for this, I didn't know about the references. This is my ideal program, something I have been wanting to go do since grade 11 and I can't believe I am about to mess this up. Can anyone reading this give me some help, is there some way I can postpone it last minute? or get only 1 reference? Any insight or possible solutions are much appreciated.

 

[kratz]

Breath, don't panic. 

Arrive on time for your CFAT and bring everything you do have. Before the end of your appointment, you will be reminded what you are missing and what is required before your application will move forward.

This allows you to ask your teacher(s) for a reference, after your CFAT. The only thing is, the longer you wait to bring in ALL the required documents, the longer your application will be delayed.

It was simple and better for you and the recruiter to bring everything in one visit, instead of multiple visits to the CFRC.

Enjoy your holidays.

 

[Canuck_55555]

I have been doing research on the ROTP programme (maybe to be a pilot), and something that i did not understand came up;
the article said you can join the ROTP programme at age 16. that confuses me. can you guys help me out?
what happens if you are accepted?
thanks, happy new year

 

[Sim509]

Update that Early Offers for ROTP-RMC started rolling out January 15 or so.
I applied mid Sept. ‘17, and completed the process by mid November. I received and accepted my early offer on Jan. 21 for Aero Eng Officer.
If anyone has any questions on the process and timings, I’ll be happy to answer.

 

[da1root]

I have been doing research on the ROTP programme (maybe to be a pilot), and something that i did not understand came up;
the article said you can join the ROTP programme at age 16. that confuses me. can you guys help me out?
what happens if you are accepted?
thanks, happy new year

You can join the CAF (Reserves) at age 16 with parental consent if you are attending high school full time.
You cannot join under the ROTP entry plan until you are 17 (this is for Quebec residents due to CEGEP; as those students will get 1 year prep at CMR St-Jean).

 

[Abeilles]

Hello,
I have been admitted in Computer Engineering and some other programs at UToronto, UWaterloo, and some other places, but I am also considering RMC.

If I go to RMC, the plan is to complete a Computer Engineering degree, do my 5 years of service, and from then, depending on how attached I am to the military, either stay there, get a Master’s degree/go back to the civil world.
(Please don’t bash me for considering getting out after 5 years, not everyone knows exactly where they want to end up in 9 years, and I know that the military isn’t for everyone. I just like planning ahead just in case.)

1. How does RMC compare to other universities in terms of prestige? UofT and UW are some of the top Engineering schools, how is RMC viewed by the rest of the world, and how would an Eng degree from RMC be considered by employers?

2. How is the student life of a cadet in RMC compared to civil universities? Do they get to go off campus to have fun sometimes - Socialize, party, eat out, etc.? Would I be able to be part of anything outside of RMC? I understand it is a very disciplined environment, which is fine by me, but how much so? Missing out on the average “student life experience” is another factor I’d like to take into consideration.

3. I am a musician, a violinist to be exact. I have been performing for a very long time and have even been admitted to McGill for violin performance, so I am very attached to music. The only bands I have heard of in RMC are for brass. Will there be any opportunity for me to keep practicing and playing in RMC?

Sorry for the long post, I am just confused as to what I want to do, going to RMC will likely imply letting go of a lot of things, and the deadline is coming close. Hopefully this will give me some insight, thanks!

 

[sidemount]

No one is going to bash you for getting out after 5 years....it happens. The full career isnt for everyone.

Most of you questions have already been asked and answered on this site.

In terms of how good RMC is, have a look at the Canadian University rankings on the McLeans website.

Pretty sure U of T is tops for computing but I haven't checked lately.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Abeilles]

Thanks for the answer,
Yeah I've done a lot of research on the forum and I've found some answers here and there, but some are outdated and other answers sometimes contradict eachother, for example, whether or not first years are required to wear their uniform at all time, or if they're allowed out of the campus at night at all and such. Also, seeing a few of the posts, it seemed that many look down upon others for even considering to get out of the military before starting...
For the ranking, I was more looking at how an RMC engineering degree would look beside another applicant's UofT degree, and if the employer would take into account the military experience and discipline involved.

 

[sidemount]

If someone is looking down on you getting out, than their opinion is really worth sweet F all. Not their concern, you look after you. Good friends and co-workers understand but you will always have idiots that have no clue. Again, don't sweat it.

You are allowed off campus at RMC, there are rules wrt uniforms and suitable clothing but Im a utpncm guy that is at a civy U so I don't know them.

As for the worth of the degree....that is very dependant upon the employer. I would argue the more important aspect would be the work experience you gain within the forces which looks much better on a resume than just schooling alone.

Edit to add, Im also a Computing guy. One thing Ive noticed is those doing interviews now, the questions are very much based on what you know. Chances are the employer knows what the school teaches. They are more interested in what you know and how you solve problem. I think it was maybe RBC that asked a lot of algorithm and problem solving questions in their interviews. That really extends beyond what institution name is on the piece of paper. What you know is more important than where you came from I guess.


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[Ajay Passi]

Hi Everyone. I am requesting info for my son, Karan, who is busy with his 2nd semester final exams. Karan was accepted in ROTP last year and joined BMOQ on 10 July 2017. Unfortunately he had to seek voluntary release because he couldn't take vaccinations due to phobia of needles. He joined Bachelor of Engineering (Mechanical) at UOIT last September. Karan has more or less overcome his phobia now and has reapplied for ROTP this year. His application has been accepted for further processing. Can someone please guide us on likely outcomes. We understand that Karan will not have to go through CFAT and Interview again. But he would surely have to prove that he has overcome his phobia of needles. When and how will he have to do that ?? If all goes well, is there a chance that after completing BMOQ (1) this August he can join 2nd year Mechanical Engineering at RMC, Kingston ? Thank you.

 

[JojnsonGetOnThatHvyMG]

Ok. So first off my big question, "what are the chances of me getting into RMC". And I know what your thinking, 'can't this bloke just do his own research?' But I have, only looking for personal opinions on the matter

Although my heart is dead set on applying I just have a few concerns. To start I have no post-secondary schooling which I know isn't a necessity. Although I pretty much just b.s'ed my way through high school to much regret. I always had the aptitude to strive and do well I just didn't apply myself correctly, I was more concerned with skipping class, smoking pot and chasing girls. Though did pass every year of high school with over an 80 average, despite skipping approx. over 100 classes a year.

Also was never 'officially' involved in any sports since elementary school, and only have around 100 volunteer hours (including the 40 for highschool). I do work over 12 hours a day Though, and have had some experience being in charge of people when staff higher up the food chain have been absent.

That being said, in the years since high school I've really pulled my head out of my ass, and am currently enrolling into the reserves. I astonished myself on the aptitude test where the captain said I was eligible to even be an officer, in any occupation. So with much thought Im planning on putting in around a year before applying to RMC and expect at least another year for that to go through. So dead set on making this work I've briefly skimmed through the different courses I'd have to take and what they entail, and have also begun brushing up on my French again, hoping to be ahead of the game by the time my enrollment starts.. So again I ask my question, "What do YOU guys think my chances are?" I'd appreciate all opinions.. Although please only comment if you plan on actually helping. Thanks to everybody that does!

 

[JP4422]

Ok. So first off my big question, "what are the chances of me getting into RMC". And I know what your thinking, 'can't this bloke just do his own research?' But I have, only looking for personal opinions on the matter

Although my heart is dead set on applying I just have a few concerns. To start I have no post-secondary schooling which I know isn't a necessity. Although I pretty much just b.s'ed my way through high school to much regret. I always had the aptitude to strive and do well I just didn't apply myself correctly, I was more concerned with skipping class, smoking pot and chasing girls. Though did pass every year of high school with over an 80 average, despite skipping approx. over 100 classes a year.

Also was never 'officially' involved in any sports since elementary school, and only have around 100 volunteer hours (including the 40 for highschool). I do work over 12 hours a day Though, and have had some experience being in charge of people when staff higher up the food chain have been absent.

That being said, in the years since high school I've really pulled my head out of my ***, and am currently enrolling into the reserves. I astonished myself on the aptitude test where the captain said I was eligible to even be an officer, in any occupation. So with much thought Im planning on putting in around a year before applying to RMC and expect at least another year for that to go through. So dead set on making this work I've briefly skimmed through the different courses I'd have to take and what they entail, and have also begun brushing up on my French again, hoping to be ahead of the game by the time my enrollment starts.. So again I ask my question, "What do YOU guys think my chances are?" I'd appreciate all opinions.. Although please only comment if you plan on actually helping. Thanks to everybody that does!

I would say you have decent chances. You seem to be motivated, you said you have 80 averages from highschool, so if they were all university courses you will be fine. Just make sure you have all prerequisite highschool courses.

 

[Loachman]

Hi Everyone.

Welcome to Army.ca, Ajay Passi.

You are most likely the only Indian Navy Officer to ever have graced this Site. I look forward to reading posts from you about your experiences.

I am requesting info for my son, Karan, who is busy with his 2nd semester final exams.

Karan should really be posting these questions himself. Many modern parents try and do too much for their children (a natural tendency), but they need to learn to do these things for themselves - especially if they seek to become Officers.

I've not seen any questions regarding fear of needles here before, but that's probably not uncommon. I wasn't very keen on them once, either - and would still not jab myself for enjoyment even now.

This is likely a question best asked of his Recruiting Centre, but someone may come along eventually with a better answer for you.

Also, please only ask a question once, in one thread only, as that is Site policy.

And get Karan to sign up here. There is a wealth of knowledge, experience, and help available from which he can benefit. We encourage Site members to do their homework prior to posting questions, though, by reading through existing threads.

 

[BakerD98]

Hello,

I have been accepted for ROTP this year. The plan is for me to attend RMC in September.

Does anyone know if/when I'll officially hear something from RMC? I asked my RC about it but they told me they're not responsible for anything passed getting me to BMOQ. Any replies are appreciated!

 

[Shrinjay]

Hey, can anyone shed any light on how difficult is it to get into ROTP directly out of high school?

I'm in high school right now, and I've been looking to join the military for as long as I could remember. Initially as a pilot but later decided being an AERE would be better suited to my skills. I've read AERE is pretty competitive, something like 6 positions a year. Anyone here know what the chances are of being selected for this trade?

In terms of extracurricular, Air Cadets is my biggest out of school commitment. I'd say I'm a pretty good cadet. Done some summer training, the effective speaking program, currently on flag party, went for boards for Airport Operations course this year (Got put on spares unfortunately) so getting an officers recommendation from my CO and Level officer would hopefully not be much of a problem. After cadets I'd count Model UN as my second biggest commitment. Aside from that I do Karate, volunteer whenever I can, but that's about it at the moment.

In school I'd say I'm an above average student. Most of my grades are in the mid-high 90s (range from a 97 in Math20IB down to a 76 in English 10-1) this year, and hopefully I can retain that for the next two years. I'm also in the International Baccalaureate Course Program currently, so I'll be doing 5 courses at the IB level (Physics SL, Math SL, Economics HL, Chemistry HL, French SL) and I'll have something like 18 uni credits by the time I graduate HS, alongside my diploma and certificates for my IB courses.

I definitely have the drive to join the CF. While I do see the career and financial benefits, I'm more interested in the chance to serve in a meaningful organization doing something good for my country, and doing something unconventional with my life.

So looking at all this, what kind of chances would I have at getting into ROTP? If I apply in September of my Grade 12 year, could I be in within one year, or would I have to attend a civilian University while waiting to get selected?

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Schwartzie55]

Hey there.

I can reply in part to your question re ROTP - RMC.

I am applying next year for engineering and I have a friend who was accepted for this year. Here is his process/timing.

He applied in grade 12, September. Overall average in low 90's, with focus on the pre-requisites. In September as well, he sent his transcript to RMC per the recruiting procedure. Then he was notified that RMC ok'd his application to continue being processed. He scored very high on CFAT, did very well in the rest which included references, background, credit check etc. He received an early offer for AERE in January and accepted. I think his BMOQ is first week of July but I can't confirm that.

What I have learned is that it's very important to be well involved in the community, do more than the required 40 hours, show initiative especially in some sort of leadership capacity. Make sure you play sports or at least one sport and that you are maintaining a decent level of physical fitness. School marks are obviously very important also. Study for the CFAT, there is a decent app that I think costs around $10.00 or something like that. Study it every week, not just a few days before your test.

I had a couple of marks in the high 70's earlier on but after speaking to my recruiter, I brought those up so everything is in the mid to high 80's, a couple at 91.

RMC is very competitive, I've done a ridiculous amount of research on the whole process. Hope this helps a bit.