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REMUSTERING/NCM-SEP

KobraKai

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Hey Everyone, I made this post in a different venue earlier but this may have been a better place to do so

I'm new to the forum. I have been a Nav comm for the past 7 years. I have been merited and am scheduled to be promoted to MS this summer so I am, thus far, experiencing the start of a promising career.  However I have decided that I would like to become a technician. I like the gear that we work with as Nav comms I just want to have a more intimate and professional knowledge of what I work with.

I have initiated all paperwork regarding NCM SEP.  I have already been accepted into a course offered by an approved post secondary institution and I also have already had my interview with the BPSO. Now it is a waiting game. The offer messages will not be sent until June 15 this year.

Does anyone here have experience remustering through NCM SEP?

I am a nervous wreck

I did well according to the PSO that interviewed me and was informed that my "score" for the file they put forward was relatively high and competitive but I didn't get that warm fuzzy "I've got this all locked up" feeling when I left. I would like to know if the score of your file is the biggest determining factor as to whether or not an offer will be made. Is there a human element. a high number is not always indicative of the quality of the member.

For instance, in addition to scoring highly on my interview I was the recipient of the Athlete of the year award for the RCN at the last CF Sports Award Ceremony, I won a gold medal for MARPAC at the CF NAtional TKD Competition and also took home the Sportsmanship Award, I was ranked number one in my unit on my last PER and was told that I will be promoted this summer to MS by our Career Manager.

Essentially I'm afraid that my file will be pushed aside in favor of one that was been given a higher score by another career manager.

If anyone here has any information or experience with this please comment

I would tell you my exact score or provide you with a breakdown of how a member is "marked" by the PSO but I'm not entirely sure that I'm allowed to do so, however the PSO did write me back saying that my score was "Good" and if they we're in my position they would most likely leave it as it is (inferring tht I could re write the CFAT to attempt a higher score but there are risks involved)

So if anyone has gone through this process successfully or has knowledge about it please advise

Thanks
 

The Bread Guy

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No need to post the same thing twice - some here see it as spamming.

 

KobraKai

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Thank you for the heads up. I just reviewed the reading material for new members.
 

hardav23

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I am in the NCM-SEP program right now, and have 5 of 7 semesters of college completed.  I will tell you right now that you had better be good with math, of the people that started the program with me, 50% have failed out of the program, or are on partial class load because of failed pre-req's.  Some are going to try repeating at their own cost but no guarantee that they will pass the second time around either.  I scored high on my CFAT and I have definately not found this program easy, I have put in a ton of hours doing homework and have been very dedicated to getting descent grades.  I am not trying to scare you or anything, just letting you know that it will probly be harder than what you expect, I know it was for me, but I just had to increase studying time to get good grades.  I am assuming you will be at the same college, since you mentioned MARPAC.
 

KobraKai

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I am not scared of math, I'm excellent at it and fully prepared. I've been accepted to Camosun College I'm assuming thats where you are. Other than the the difficulty of the subject matter and the like do you have anything else to say about my post? How high was your score in the interview process. Do you know anything about the selection process or any other question I posted about originally?
How many people were given offers to Weng through NCM SEP when you went through?
 

hardav23

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I scored very high in the interview as well, they said I was qualified to do any job in the Navy.  I realize that the interview is a requirement but I wouldn't base a whole lot off it, after seeing some of the people that they sent to school with me, the interview obviously does not do a very good job of screening.  Granted the one individual is no longer in the NCM-SEP program, but they decided to give him a try through the direct entry method, when they should have just punted him out and made him pay the money back.  Lets just say that he is not exactly the most stable person and definately should not be in a trade where weapons is the main focus.  I know that is a little off topic but it just shows why the program is under scrutiny and in jeopardy of being scraped all together from what I have heard.  There were 6 of us when the program started almost 2 years ago and we lost 2 last year and there may be another this semester.  The class before us had a 50% failure rate, and the class that just started this year only has 1 person in it.  I heard the reason there is only one this year is because of cutbacks to the program, and I have heard that they are reviewing it to see if it is actually a viable option.  Basically I think that it is because they sink money into people that end up failing out, so they have money for tuition, books, pay, etc, then they end up at square one after a year and a half of expenses and the person ends up going direct entry anyway.  Unfortunately, as usual, it is a few bad people ruining it for everyone else.  I think the program is excellent and I am enjoying it a lot, and I know this will be a trade that I will really enjoy.  As for the selection process I guess it will depend how many spots are open and how many people they have that want to fill those spots.  I know when I got accepted they had spots for 16 people and only filled 6, but I know in the last year or two they have cutback the number of spots.  I was not a remuster like yourself, but the BPSO was kind of skeptical about me when I first started because I was 33 years old, he thought I would have a tough time with college.  Turns out he was completely wrong, I have some of the higher marks in the class, I guess having been to college once before for civil engineering helped.  I would assume that since you are remustering that you would be towards the top of the list, but as you probly know better than me, you having 7 years already, sometimes logic doesn't always play a part in it  ;D  I don't beleive there have been many people remuster through the NCM-SEP program for WENG, I haven't seen any for last 4 years at Camosun so I think that is a good thing in your case.  I do know that we have a Bosn that has remustered to ATIS, as he is in my class right now.  I know when I applied the biggest question they had was being accepted to the college, which you have already done, so I would say chances are good.
 

KobraKai

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Hey Brother, Thanks alot for responding again. I totally agree with the points your making. It certainly takes only a few to mess things up for many. I feel better about my odds now. I can only wait and see.  Worrying about is isn't going to help any but its hard to not be nervous! I am currently on course and I am not enjoying it and it makes it so much harder knowing that I am no longer interested in my trade. I am able to push that aside though and perform the way I should. I don't think turning my nose up would aid my cause anyways!

The PSO I had spoke with mentioned that Weng was not a popular trade for re musters. For all I know there could be very few people applying for it through NCM-SEP. I had a good interview, and i had alot of other nice bullet points for the proverbial resume also, perhaps I shouldn't feel so bleak. So In the meantime I've been taking math courses through SIDES to occupy my time. Do you have any specific recommendations rearding which areas of math to focus on? Does Physics play a HUGE role?

I appreciate your responses my man, what trade were you prior to Weng?
 

hardav23

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I was never in another trade, when I joined through NCM-SEP it was strsight from civi.  So the first little while was a real eye opener, as most expect that you have a military background, when in reality I knew nothing. 

I have no problems sharing info about the NCM-SEP program, I know when I started I had a lot of questions and just had to figure most of it out as I went.  That is where these forums come in handy, and I wished someone had more experience with the SEP program to answer questions. 

As for areas of math to focus on, I would say know your trig functions, derivatives, anti-derivatives, Laplace, integration, kind of the more in depth stuff that you run into with electronics, as 5 of 7 semesters have a math or math based course.  As for physics, it does play a part, you will only have 1 semester (3months) of physics, but it is not an easy class either. 

If I can pass this course after being out of school for 12 years and jump straight into it without doing any refresher courses, while having 3 kids to deal with at home, then anyone can do it.  I think it just boils down to how much you put into it and what you want to get out of it. 

I taked to one guy at fleet school this past summer, not sure which trade he was in, but he too had talked about re-mustering for the NCM-SEP Weng, other than that I too have heard it is not real common.  But like I said before we do have someone in our class right now that is a re-muster.
 

QORvanweert

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It is great to see some life on this board! I am in the same boat as you guys, although more on the jetty and less on the deck.

I am currently taking Math 137 at Camosun as my prereq into Math 105 and Physics 100. I decided that I wanted to go NCM-SEP last summer and began 137 last September. I had been out of math since gr. 11 and in the intervening 8 years had only taken part of a Linguistics degree at York. Unfortunately friction and fricatives, while conjugates, don't equate very well! I passed the class, but did not achieve a high enough grade for it to count as my prerequisite.

I believe that "hardav23's" experience of being able to seamlessly resume math is a testament to his dedication, determination and prior education.

I am maintaining a 92% average this semester and will complete my other prerequisites over the summer. Assuming all goes as planned, I will start my diploma courses in September. Having said that, over 50% of my class last semester failed/dropped out due to the difficulty of the course. This semester is tracking along the same path. I found that because I came from an arts background, I have had to really work my butt off to get my math knowledge up to speed.

I too am worried about being accepted into the NCM-SEP program once I start my diploma. Each time I have been to CFRC Victoria I have been told to get an unconditional acceptance into the program before bothering to apply. My own worry is that I will get into the program and then find out that all the NCM-SEP spaces have been filled and I am on the hook for a year's worth of expenses; better luck next time.

'hardav23' it would be great if you could share your experiences! For example, how does it all work? Do you parade on weekends? How do you claim benefits? Does the CF pay the college upfront or do they pay the tuition to you and then you go in and pay it yourself? What happens if you fail a class? What is the minimum average you were expected to maintain? How well did the program prepare you for your trade? If I can only apply once I have begun the course, am I back paid to the beginning of my studies once enlisted?

Your response will be greatly appreciated!

*edited for ease of reading*
 

hardav23

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These are a lot of the same questions that I had when I first started as well and I am more than happy to provide a little insight on this for you.

As far as being on the hook for a year of tuition, if the CF doesn't accept you to the NCM-SEP program you could just get your tuition refunded, you have 4 weeks to change your mind after classes start.  Although this will set you back another year, at least you do have the option.  I do see their point of wanting you to be uncoditionally accepted to the college, no point in filling a spot for someone that "maybe" able to go to school, over someone that "definately" can go to school. 
I know that there are a couple people in my class that went from civi to application to accepted to NCM-SEP in less than 6 weeks before class started, so don't think that if you aren't accepted until August dont freak out, class doesn't start until the last week in September.

As far as parade on weekends, no you do not, you are considered a full time student, and they realize you have homework and exams to study for.  For the people in my class it is a bit different, we have not had time to do basic yet, will be sent to St Jean after college is finished.  Our summer break is only 12 weeks long and basic is 14 weeks, so there is not enough time, also they did not have enough time to send us before school started.  So since we do not have basic we are kind of limited on stuff we can do without having a uniform. 

As far as claims go, once you know how much tution and books are, you go into to the BPSO and he does an advance claim so that you can pay them, then once paid you bring your reciepts in and finish your claim.

When a class get failed it is up to you to come up with a plan of action and then you and the BPSO see what the best course of action is.  For example, the one guy failed Math, so he took all the courses did not have pre-req's for math to finish out the year and challenged the exam and passed, then he went to basic from September to December, then when he got back picked up where he left off on the next math course and is continuing on, he is now 1 year behind me but has his basic done. 

You are required to maintain the grades at whatever the college standards are, in our case 60% for courses that have pre-req's and 50% for ones that don't, I believe Physics is the only one that 50% is good enough  in but don't quote me on that, I would say just stay above 60% in everything and you will be fine. 

One thing I will tell you, if you are struggling in a subject, ask BPSO for help, they can provide you with a tutor, its better than failing, and it shows that you actually give a ****. 

As far as how well did it prepare me for the trade, I will find out in about a year, I don't graduate until December. 

You normally apply before the course starts from what I have seen.

 

George Wallace

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Wow!  That is hard on the eyes. 

Hint:  If you have problems reading what you typed, especially in long run on statements that are over several lines long, then perhaps you ought to break them up into trains of thought / paragraphs.
 

CountDC

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lol George.  With you on that.  Tried reading but gave up when I realized all the posts were done in the same style.

 

hardav23

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Thanks for the posting tips, sure are a lot of people on here that like to complain, just sayin.....
Maybe thats why people dont stay on here long enough to give info on these types of subjects  ::)
 

George Wallace

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hardav23 said:
Thanks for the posting tips, sure are a lot of people on here that like to complain, just sayin.....
Maybe thats why people dont stay on here long enough to give info on these types of subjects  ::)

Interesting comment.  Perhaps if people were able to read past the first couple of words without loosing their focus, they wouldn't have to ask the same questions over and over again.  People who post a novel of several hundred pages with not logical breaks in their writting, tend to lose their target audience within the first couple of lines, if not words. 

Another hint:  People who want to show attitude towards minor hints/corrections/criticism will face many difficulties in life.......especially if they want to butt heads with the Moderators of a website.

As an aside; were you the model for this topic?
 

hardav23

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I said thanks for the advice, then I gave some advice of my own, I even went as far as correcting my mistakes.  If a moderator can't take a bit of advice about people complaining and its results........ :-X

I hate to tell you but you don't even know me so don't comment on having problems with my life. Thanks
 

George Wallace

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hardave23

As a member of the CF, one must be able to communicate in a clear, concise manner as lives may be on the line.  This is a point that has been pointed out to members of the site who have not learned or demonstrated good writing and communication skills on numerous occasions.  This also encourages site members to improve their writing skills here, so that later in their careers they may be able to better communicate through written reports and assessments.  All skills one must acquire and develop if they hope to progress through the ranks.

In a few of the above posts, statements have been made that MAY have held valuable information.  The posting style of the member making the post has been such that the information is lost in a maze of print and the reader has effectively given up reading the post having lost focus as to what line they may be on.  In essence, none of the valuable information is being passed on, lost in a jumble of words. 
 

QORvanweert

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'Hardav23',
                  Thank you very much for your timely response! You have indeed answered a number of my questions.

                  If you would be kind enough to elaborate, what are you expected to do in the 12 week break between last and first quarters? How does your vacation time work? Since you begin contributing to a pension with your first pay cheque, does your 'time in' also start the minute you are sworn in, or only once you have finished BMQ? By that I mean, the requisite amount of time before you can be promoted etc. If the clock begins counting on your first day, wouldn't you be promoted to AS the minute you finish your BMQ?
                 
                  I know that the CF pays for your books etc. However, if you resell a textbook at the end of the class, are you expected to remit those funds to the CF? Also, being a full time student, are you required to pass the BFT every year like the rest of the CF? Do you have mess dues deducted from your pay? Do you receive PLD? Is the BPSO your only point of contact on the base, or are you officially assigned to a 'student division'(wrong terminology, I know)?

                    Regarding medical and dental, do your MSP premiums stop once you are covered by the CF? If you have dental work done, is it the standard 'fill out the forms at a dentist of your choosing' insurance situation or are those services only provided through CF dentists on base?

                    Thank you very much for taking the time to answer these questions! The whole SEP experience isn't described very well online and you are the first person who has offered to share your own experiences.

 
A

aesop081

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are you required to pass the BFT every year like the rest of the CF?

I'm sorry but the BFT does not apply to the "rest of the CF". That is a test that does not apply to the RCAF or the RCN.

 

QORvanweert

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CDN Aviator said:
I'm sorry but the BFT does not apply to the "rest of the CF". That is a test that does not apply to the RCAF or the RCN.

Thank you for clearing that up.
 

Melbatoast

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I said:
                 
                  I know that the CF pays for your books etc. However, if you resell a textbook at the end of the class, are you expected to remit those funds to the CF? Also, being a full time student, are you required to pass the BFT every year like the rest of the CF? Do you have mess dues deducted from your pay? Do you receive PLD? Is the BPSO your only point of contact on the base, or are you officially assigned to a 'student division'(wrong terminology, I know)?

The textbook question is, uh, a grey area.  You most certainly may not claim the income tax refund.  That and many other things are spelled out in the subsidized education student guide http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/dte-die/doc/20112012sg.doc  You do get PLD, as you are posted to the area.  Yes, you must pay mess dues (like $15/mo at the Fleet Club).  The University Liaison Officer, located in the BPSO's office, is your point of contact at the base, that's it.  You are essentially a civilian for most of the year, but for two briefings conducted at the start of each term.  Come to think of it, I believe there may be a Chief that goes up to Camosun to check on the NCM-SEPs, but I don't know how much he interacts.

You are indeed assigned to a "student division" overseen by the regional Subsidized Education Manager, but except for meeting him twice a year the organization is transparent to you.  Virtually any talking you do during the year will be with the ULO.
 

                    Regarding medical and dental, do your MSP premiums stop once you are covered by the CF? If you have dental work done, is it the standard 'fill out the forms at a dentist of your choosing' insurance situation or are those services only provided through CF dentists on base?

MSP may be stopped by your recruiting office on enrollment, but it's up to you to make sure!  I had a problem with them coming after me for back fees several years after I joined.  It was quite a headache to sort out. 

You will see CF dentists and be referred to civilians if more specialized work is required.
 
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