Replacing the Subs

[Lumber]

Maybe, but just spitballing here, unless said allied helicopters are the same model (or really close), having enough spare widgets for 3-4 different types of helicopters may be an issue.

That's why we scrap the Cyclone and go with NH90s

 

[lenaitch]

Right, but I meant the RCMP takes care of peacekeeping at home if the army was downscaled, if it was required. I’m referring here to if something like Oka or FLQ were to happen again.

I understand now. The term "peacekeeping" threw me. We generally call that 'law enforcement', and the primary responsibility of the police service of jurisdiction, which may or may not be the RCMP.

So hire more coppers? Create a new overseas Division?

I'm pretty sure that the chunk of the population that reliably supports Trudeau's Liberals, the NDP and the Greens (20-30%) would prefer to hire more Cowboys than Kilties.

Call them whatever you like but somebody empowered to represent the State extraterritorially ain't a civilian cop. Law enforcement implies there are law of the State to be enforced and, outside of military law, there are only a handful of sections of the Criminal Code that apply outside of Canada.

 

[KevinB]

That's why we scrap the Cyclone and go with NH90s

Because when you already have a lemon, you want to get a second one?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Maybe, but just spitballing here, unless said allied helicopters are the same model (or really close), having enough spare widgets for 3-4 different types of helicopters may be an issue.

Very true, likley you need a detachment of maintainers and spare parts. But the ship would have the room and the bigger equipment to do deeper repairs and maintenance and with an AOR in attendance, the Task force could stay at sea longer with less loss of capability.

 

[Lumber]

Because when you already have a lemon, you want to get a second one?

At least we and the Europeans can fix our lemons together!

 

[Maxman1]

That's why we scrap the Cyclone and go with NH90s

Better yet, go with neither and buy more  EHAW101s.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That's why we scrap the Cyclone and go with NH90s

You have no idea, do you?

 

[Lumber]

You have no idea, do you?

What? That the NH 90s have had a long and troubled road to IOC? That they dot operate exactly the same as our helos and have smaller crews? That one country (I think Sweden?) has already decided to ground them and replace them with sea hawks?

 

[Maxman1]

What? That the NH 90s have had a long and troubled road to IOC? That they dot operate exactly the same as our helos and have smaller crews? That one country (I think Sweden?) has already decided to ground them and replace them with sea hawks?

It has had plenty of issues and both Norway and Australia have decided to withdraw it from service.

 

[dimsum]

What? That the NH 90s have had a long and troubled road to IOC? That they dot operate exactly the same as our helos and have smaller crews? That one country (I think Sweden?) has already decided to ground them and replace them with sea hawks?

Australia.

The kicker was that their MRH90s (NH90s in all but designation) were bought to replace S-70B Seahawks for the RAN and the Aus Army. It were such lemons that the ADF decided to replace them with....S-70 Blackhawks (for the Army) and SH-60R Seahawks (for the RAN).

 

[Good2Golf]

Australia.

The kicker was that their MRH90s (NH90s in all but designation) were bought to replace S-70B Seahawks for the RAN and the Aus Army. It were such lemons that the ADF decided to replace them with....S-70 Blackhawks (for the Army) and SH-60R Seahawks (for the RAN).

And also getting rid of the Airbus Tigres, replacing them with Apaches.

The NH-90…..multi-role one helicopter for multi-national forces…only it comes in more variants/configurations than the actual number of countries using it…

 

[Underway]

Better yet, go with neither and buy more  EHAW101s.

Ugh. No. Terrible availability rates on those things. Seahawks are the only option in my mind, but what do I know?

 

[Underway]

What? That the NH 90s have had a long and troubled road to IOC? That they dot operate exactly the same as our helos and have smaller crews? That one country (I think Sweden?) has already decided to ground them and replace them with sea hawks?

Norway and Sweden are going in a different direction. But I think you are refering to Australia. Australia was disgusted by those helicopters and publicly excoriated them when they grounded the fleet.

 

[dimsum]

Ugh. No. Terrible availability rates on those things.

From what I recall from open-source (GAO) reports, the USN Seahawks don't exactly have stellar availability rates either.

None of the US military rotary wing fleets, of any service, do.

Choosing between them is like choosing the least-worst option. And unlike the P-8, where a vast majority of our allies run the same platform, our allies are all over the map with maritime helicopter fleets.

 

[Maxman1]

Ugh. No. Terrible availability rates on those things.

That's because we only have 15. If we had more, more would be available at a given time.

Or we could go with the new AW189 or Bell 525.

 

[dimsum]

That's because we only have 15. If we had more, more would be available at a given time.

Or we could go with the new AW189 or Bell 525.

I think @Underway was referring to the UK's fleet (AW101 Merlin), not ours.

 

[Underway]

I think @Underway was referring to the UK's fleet (AW101 Merlin), not ours.

Correct. Speaking the the Cyclone techs apparently we have excellent availability rates on our birds in comparison to all other helo fleets. But in particular they called out the Merlins as being behind the curve.

 

[dapaterson]

That's because we only have 15. If we had more, more would be available at a given time.

Or we could go with the new AW189 or Bell 525.

That's not fixing rates - rates are a percentage of the fleet that's available.

Plus, growing fleets without significant growth in maintenance capacity just means more equipment sitting forlorn and waiting parts / waiting labour. You want equipment fixed faster? You need more techs, more hangars, more parts.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

What? That the NH 90s have had a long and troubled road to IOC? That they dot operate exactly the same as our helos and have smaller crews? That one country (I think Sweden?) has already decided to ground them and replace them with sea hawks?

Yes- that is exactly what I mean.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Because when you already have a lemon, you want to get a second one?

Well they are going cheap so for a change we can have two lemons for the price of one.