Replacing the Subs

[Underway]

I've also heard the RCN wants land attack capabilities

Not just wants, required by the government in the Strong Secure Engaged. It's right in there.

 

[KevinB]

It’s a strong argument to regain our seat at the adults table, having VLS ability. Especially if we obtain 12 subs.

FIFY

 

[SeaKingTacco]

FIFY

Can we have the US seat?

 

[KevinB]

Can we have the US seat?

Well we clearly aren’t using it.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Korea going at us quite hard with the KSS III, apparently even promoting the sub was designed with mixed gender accommodations, and can now run on only 30 crew but can bunk 50 (each separately). And the SLBM capability is configurable to 8 pack SLCM. That’s a pretty decent capability.

 

[Rainbow1910]

No. But it completely changes potential use cases and threat vectors for the enemy. Right now the only missile capable of being launched from those tubes is a land attack ballistic variant (2000lb bunker busting warhead, 500km range), but given a small amount of time, german anti air missile inserts, drones of various types (subsurface and air), anti ship missiles.

Submariners I know who talk about the KSS III seem rather excited about the possibility of new missions that these sorts of additions can provide.

The big issue for Canada getting a lot of the Korean heavy hitter systems aboard KSS-III is the Missile Technology Control Regime, given the fact we would have to be exported "monkey models" of cut down warheads/range in order to keep both nations within compliance. Personally I don't particularly care about the Regime, as the world has changed and the security of our nation matters more than rules that aren't even largely being followed by our enemies.

 

[Underway]

And the SLBM capability is configurable to 8 pack SLCM. That’s a pretty decent capability.

Can you ref this for me. Can't seem to find it. I didn't think Korea had a sub launched cruise missile system yet.

 

[KevinB]

The big issue for Canada getting a lot of the Korean heavy hitter systems aboard KSS-III is the Missile Technology Control Regime, given the fact we would have to be exported "monkey models" of cut down warheads/range in order to keep both nations within compliance. Personally I don't particularly care about the Regime, as the world has changed and the security of our nation matters more than rules that aren't even largely being followed by our enemies.

MTCR is voluntary.
The ship sailed on anyone adhering to that in late ‘23.

 

[calculus]

Can you ref this for me. Can't seem to find it. I didn't think Korea had a sub launched cruise missile system yet.

Not sure if it's been tested, but the graphic in the link below clearly shows a cruise missile (Hyunmoo 3C). Question is if these cells can accommodate sub-launched Tomahawk.

South Korea Conducts Second SLBM Test from KSS-III Submarine - Naval News

The ROKN conducted a second successful test-firing of South Korea’s domestically designed submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) from the KSS-III submarine ROKS Dosan Ahn Changho (SS-083), defense officials announced thursday.

www.navalnews.com

 

[calculus]

Not sure if it's been tested, but the graphic in the link below clearly shows a cruise missile (Hyunmoo 3C). Question is if these cells can accommodate sub-launched Tomahawk.

South Korea Conducts Second SLBM Test from KSS-III Submarine - Naval News

The ROKN conducted a second successful test-firing of South Korea’s domestically designed submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) from the KSS-III submarine ROKS Dosan Ahn Changho (SS-083), defense officials announced thursday.

www.navalnews.com

Found this:

Hyunmoo-3 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Seems to be a real thing, and the 3C version has a 1500Km range, which is quite respectable.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Not sure if it's been tested, but the graphic in the link below clearly shows a cruise missile (Hyunmoo 3C). Question is if these cells can accommodate sub-launched Tomahawk.

South Korea Conducts Second SLBM Test from KSS-III Submarine - Naval News

The ROKN conducted a second successful test-firing of South Korea’s domestically designed submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) from the KSS-III submarine ROKS Dosan Ahn Changho (SS-083), defense officials announced thursday.

www.navalnews.com

With all respect to HI Sutton, his graphic does not reflect reality. From everything I have heard thus far, only the Hyunmoo 4-4 SLBM has been integrated into the submarine variant of the K-VLS.

 

[calculus]

Found this:

Hyunmoo-3 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Seems to be a real thing, and the 3C version has a 1500Km range, which is quite respectable.

Bit more on Korean SLCMs (article is 2 years old). Looks like the Hynmoo 3 sub launched version is called C-Star-111, and may (as of the date of the article) only be torpedo-tube launched.

South Korea completes Hyunmoo-V Ballistic Missile Development - Naval News

South Korea's new Hyunmoo-V ballistic missile development is complete. The missile is expected to be fitted on a future arsenal ship...

www.navalnews.com

 

[calculus]

Bit more on the Hyunmoo 3x:

Hyunmoo-3 | Missile Threat

The Hyunmoo-3 series is a family of short- to medium-range, land-attack cruise missiles. The Hyunmoo-3A, 3B, and 3C are currently in service, with a D variant reportedly in development. The Hyunmoo 3C, with a reach of 1,500 km, is among the longest range missiles that South Korea currently...

missilethreat.csis.org

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Can you ref this for me. Can't seem to find it. I didn't think Korea had a sub launched cruise missile system yet.

According to that fountain of information, Wikipedia, the Koreans are developing a new cruise missile, the Chonryong that can be launched from the KS-III.

Edit: There seems to be some confusion as to the actual designations for South Koreas SLCMs; its either the Chonryong, Hyunmoo-3 or the Haeseong III.

 

[KevinB]

According to that fountain of information, Wikipedia, the Koreans are developing a new cruise missile, the Chonryong that can be launched from the KS-III.

Edit: There seems to be some confusion as to the actual designations for South Koreas SLCMs; its either the Chonryong, Hyunmoo-3 or the Haeseong III.

Chonryong is VLS, the Hyunmoo is torpedo tube launched.

Not sure on the Haeseong.

 

[Underway]

AFAIK the only missile to be proven to be fired from those VLS is the Hyunmoo 4-4. Which is a SLBM of 500km range. I'm sure they are working on other options.