Replacing the Subs

[Colin Parkinson]

Lessons from Japan and South Koreas Sub builders. A very interesting talk. The Japanese seem to have the decommissioning and replacement thing worked out.

 

[quadrapiper]

What Google AI says.
Canada and the United States have several agreements concerning nuclear weapons, primarily focused on cooperation and non-proliferation. While Canada does not possess its own nuclear weapons, it has a history of cooperation with the US on nuclear matters, including accepting nuclear weapons on Canadian soil temporarily. Canada is a non-nuclear weapon state party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and has signed agreements with the US for cooperation on civil uses of atomic energy and for cooperation on mutual defense purposes.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
1. Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT):Canada ratified the NPT in 1970, committing to not acquire nuclear weapons.

2. Cooperation on Civil Uses of Atomic Energy: The 1955 agreement between Canada and the US on the civil uses of atomic energy outlines provisions for transferring nuclear technology, material, and equipment, with restrictions on transfers to unauthorized persons or beyond territorial jurisdiction.

3. Cooperation on Mutual Defense Purposes: Another 1955 agreement focuses on the exchange of information and materials related to atomic energy for mutual defense. This includes developing defense plans and training personnel.

4. Defense Production Sharing Agreement (DPSA): Formalized in 1959, this agreement aims to integrate defense production between the two countries, removing barriers to reciprocal procurement.

5. NORAD Agreement: The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) agreement, updated in 2006, involves cooperation in aerospace warning, air sovereignty, and maritime warning for North America.

6. Canada's Stance on the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW)espite being a non-nuclear weapon state and a key player in global non-proliferation efforts, Canada has not signed the TPNW, which prohibits the development, testing, production, acquisition, possession, or use of nuclear weapons. Canada's position is that a step-by-step approach to nuclear disarmament remains the most viable pathway

Looks fairly permissive as far as nuclear-powered vessels.

 

[Genetk44]

Use the 1958 and 1959 dates and various search parameters and you can find other references on both treaties. Basically, without US agreement we aren’t getting nuke powered boats…..unless we want to try and get them from the Russians or China.

 

[Genetk44]

The treaties I referenced aren’t that easy to find…requires some searching and reading…especially the 1959 one.

 

[lenaitch]

What Google AI says.
Canada and the United States have several agreements concerning nuclear weapons, primarily focused on cooperation and non-proliferation. While Canada does not possess its own nuclear weapons, it has a history of cooperation with the US on nuclear matters, including accepting nuclear weapons on Canadian soil temporarily. Canada is a non-nuclear weapon state party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and has signed agreements with the US for cooperation on civil uses of atomic energy and for cooperation on mutual defense purposes.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
1. Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT):Canada ratified the NPT in 1970, committing to not acquire nuclear weapons.

2. Cooperation on Civil Uses of Atomic Energy: The 1955 agreement between Canada and the US on the civil uses of atomic energy outlines provisions for transferring nuclear technology, material, and equipment, with restrictions on transfers to unauthorized persons or beyond territorial jurisdiction.

3. Cooperation on Mutual Defense Purposes: Another 1955 agreement focuses on the exchange of information and materials related to atomic energy for mutual defense. This includes developing defense plans and training personnel.

4. Defense Production Sharing Agreement (DPSA): Formalized in 1959, this agreement aims to integrate defense production between the two countries, removing barriers to reciprocal procurement.

5. NORAD Agreement: The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) agreement, updated in 2006, involves cooperation in aerospace warning, air sovereignty, and maritime warning for North America.

6. Canada's Stance on the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW)espite being a non-nuclear weapon state and a key player in global non-proliferation efforts, Canada has not signed the TPNW, which prohibits the development, testing, production, acquisition, possession, or use of nuclear weapons. Canada's position is that a step-by-step approach to nuclear disarmament remains the most viable pathway

Everybody seems to hang their hat on the 1959 Defence Production Sharing Agreement. Specifically, it looks like Article IV (emphasis added). While not an outright prohibition, it seem to give the US a veto:

View Treaty - Canada.ca

www.treaty-accord.gc.ca

Article IV​

Transfer of Military Reactors and Materials

The Government of the United States, by amendment to this Agreement and subject to the terms and conditions mutually agreed upon between the Parties,

1. may agree to transfer, or authorize any person to transfer, to the Government of Canada, military reactors and/or parts thereof for military applications; and
2. may agree to transfer to the Government of Canada special nuclear material for research on, development of, production of, and use in military reactors for military applications.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Canada can pull a DJT move and declare that article obsolete and void. But instead of announcing it to the word, just send a diplomatic note, stuffed into wads of other stuff. Then quietly negotiate the sale and announce to the world. At which point if the US, complains, we can publicly say "We are living up to our defense obligations and using this to help meet our spending requirements. Last week you were telling us we were not doing enough and now you complain when we do something. Doing the move well will put the US in a uncomfortable place of being contradicting themselves. If they try to punish us, it will invoke major anti-US sentiment in Western countries and raise Canada;s status,

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Everybody seems to hang their hat on the 1959 Defence Production Sharing Agreement. Specifically, it looks like Article IV (emphasis added). While not an outright prohibition, it seem to give the US a veto:

View Treaty - Canada.ca

www.treaty-accord.gc.ca

Article IV​

Transfer of Military Reactors and Materials

The Government of the United States, by amendment to this Agreement and subject to the terms and conditions mutually agreed upon between the Parties,

1. may agree to transfer, or authorize any person to transfer, to the Government of Canada, military reactors and/or parts thereof for military applications; and
2. may agree to transfer to the Government of Canada special nuclear material for research on, development of, production of, and use in military reactors for military applications.

I think this was with the assumption that the U.S. would stay the only game in town IRT Western nuclear technology.

The geopolitical shift from 1959 to 2025 is enormous.

 

[k.numbers]

Everybody seems to hang their hat on the 1959 Defence Production Sharing Agreement. Specifically, it looks like Article IV (emphasis added). While not an outright prohibition, it seem to give the US a veto:

View Treaty - Canada.ca

www.treaty-accord.gc.ca

Article IV​

Transfer of Military Reactors and Materials

The Government of the United States, by amendment to this Agreement and subject to the terms and conditions mutually agreed upon between the Parties,

1. may agree to transfer, or authorize any person to transfer, to the Government of Canada, military reactors and/or parts thereof for military applications; and
2. may agree to transfer to the Government of Canada special nuclear material for research on, development of, production of, and use in military reactors for military applications.

That is a bilateral treaty for US technology only. I read the 'authorize another person' part to mean the US can give Westinghouse or GE, etc permission to transfer nuclear technology that the corporations own, rather than technology or hardware that is owned by the State.

It would apply to British nuclear submarine reactors as the RR PWR series was developed with technology transfered to Rolls Royce by Westinghouse under the US-UK Mutual Defence Treaty.

As far as I can tell, it would not prevent Canada from buying French reactors or developing our own. But I'm definitely not a lawyer or treaty expert.

 

[quadrapiper]

I think this was with the assumption that the U.S. would stay the only game in town IRT Western nuclear technology.

The geopolitical shift from 1959 to 2025 is enormous.

Definitely reads that way.

Vive la France!