Replacing the Subs

[Czech_pivo]

I think @KevinB touched on a key element of the Korean offer.

It is self serving.

It is in Korea's interest to offshore their supply chains. Their factories and shipyards are too close to their enemy.

Also they need to secure a resource base that they lack. Coal, oil, LNG, graphite, iron, copper, lithium, slilca, beef, pork, chickens, canola, wheat, cheese.

They are in the market for it all.

And as an entrepot for Canadian goods into Asia they could replicate Amsterdam, London, New York, Hong Kong and Singapore.

In case nobody else has noticed the rest of the world thinks that we are rich.

I agree.
But I've never found a 4 leaf clover before, never won more that 68$ in the lotto, never got picked first nor last in dodgeball, so its all just starting to sound just a bit too good to be true with the SK's. Right now I'd rather see them slightly screw up on something so we can all say, ahh, they are human and this is not too good to be true.

 

[Kirkhill]

I agree.
But I've never found a 4 leaf clover before, never won more that 68$ in the lotto, never got picked first nor last in dodgeball, so its all just starting to sound just a bit too good to be true with the SK's. Right now I'd rather see them slightly screw up on something so we can all say, ahh, they are human and this is not too good to be true.

Well, perhaps you can start with the lack of NATO standard weapons....
There will be a bit of integration magic required.
From someone that was regularly picked last for dodgeball

 

[Colin Parkinson]

This is from 10 years ago, but a reminder that just because it's German, does not mean it's perfect. In fact not so long ago, all 6 subs were out of service and their new frigate had significant problems including a permanent list.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I am officially boarding the Korea train. They really want this.

EDIT: I have just realized @Czech_pivo posted the CTV article earlier.

South Korean shipyard sweetens its submarine sales pitch to Canada

One of two finalists in the competition to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines is pitching multiple industrial partnerships and economic benefits in the hopes of sealing the deal.

www.bnnbloomberg.ca

Its the best option IMHO. But we will go German because Europe. Mark my words.

 

[Underway]

This is from 10 years ago, but a reminder that just because it's German, does not mean it's perfect. In fact not so long ago, all 6 subs were out of service and their new frigate had significant problems including a permanent list.

Not that permanent considering they fixed it and that ship has been accepted into the German navy. But yes, there were certainly a large number of concerns with the last tranche of German build vessels.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Well, perhaps you can start with the lack of NATO standard weapons....
There will be a bit of integration magic required.
From someone that was regularly picked last for dodgeball

There aren’t any NATO standard torpedoes. All 5 Euro sub producing countries use home grown torpedoes. Add to that the USA and that’s 6 different heavy weight torpedoes. UK and France are the only NATO countries using tube launched cruise missiles; again not the same. If we use SK weapons then there won’t be any delivery delay from integrating non SK weapons. Others on this blog have indicated that SK torpedo is a capable weapon. I understand that the performance of the Chonryong cruise missile may be an unknown at this point.

 

[NavyShooter]

As I recall the story from a friend of mine on subs that when we upgraded the Oberons to operate the MK.48 torpedo, that was a HUGE project, but the win in terms of capability was massive.

The plan was to modify the Victoria class as part of the Canadianization to use the MK.48 so that we could 'save money' and use the existing MK48s that we had in stock.

Good idea.

Except.

The length of time that it took for us to switch from the Oberons to the Victorias, and to 'Canadianize' them meant that the original MK.48's we had were past due for servicing, and had to all be sent back to the US for overhaul...and upgrade....to a new ADCAP version that the targeting consoles from the Oberons were not compatible with.

So.

We upgraded the Victorias to use torpedoes that we no longer had, and ended up having to buy the MK.48 ADCAPs, and new targeting consoles again that then had to be installed.

If we'd just given up the 48's and gotten the Spearfish with the Victoria class, we'd have been years ahead...

The platform is truly the important part.

If we focus on using whatever torpedoes we have in stock now, then we'll end up in a mess like we did last time.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Exactly my concern as well

 

[Nvlgzr]

Exactly my concern as well

My understanding is RCN wants to be able to have 3 subs on patrol at any given moment. It’s not as thou we have enough Mk48 ADCAPs to fully arm more than 1 submarine. Therefore we will need to buy a large amount of weapons regardless.

 

[Kirkhill]

It’s not as thou we have enough Mk48 ADCAPs to fully arm more than 1 submarine.

And thereby hangs the tale of Canada's defence: More bows than arrows.

 

[Good2Golf]

Can CD-E212 launch VLS?

I still think KSS-III is the as-yet unannounced awardee.

Best calculator I had was a HP-15C using RPN

I still have my HP21 scientific and HP10b2+ financial calculators. They both use RPN (though less for the financial calculator because it has its own formulae for business.) My sons are completely baffled when they watch me calculate something with the HP21.

RPN…geeky, but not super geeky…

To up-geek the thread, true HP-ophiles call it ‘stack operations’ vice RPN.

 

[Sub Standard]

My understanding is RCN wants to be able to have 3 subs on patrol at any given moment. It’s not as thou we have enough Mk48 ADCAPs to fully arm more than 1 submarine. Therefore we will need to buy a large amount of weapons regardless.

When we transitioned to the VICTORIA class we started with the MK48 Mod4M that the O boats had and ran VIC, WSR and CHI with them after their first EDWPs. Canada then paid to upgrade most of our 4M stock to the MK 48 7AT which required changes to the fire control system and WSR and COR have both sailed with and fired that torpedo. Once all of the upgrade of the 4Ms are complete there will be more than enough for each VIC Class boat to carry a full war load at the same time.

 

[OldSolduer]

My understanding is RCN wants to be able to have 3 subs on patrol at any given moment. It’s not as thou we have enough Mk48 ADCAPs to fully arm more than 1 submarine. Therefore we will need to buy a large amount of weapons regardless.

Its not just the RCN that has that issue. From what I understand the CA is in the same...boat....

Pun fully intended.

 

[Nvlgzr]

When we transitioned to the VICTORIA class we started with the MK48 Mod4M that the O boats had and ran VIC, WSR and CHI with them after their first EDWPs. Canada then paid to upgrade most of our 4M stock to the MK 48 7AT which required changes to the fire control system and WSR and COR have both sailed with and fired that torpedo. Once all of the upgrade of the 4Ms are complete there will be more than enough for each VIC Class boat to carry a full war load at the same time.

The fact that we are still upgrading mk48 to 7AT since 2014 satisfies the definition of insanity. Sounds like a make work program. That doesn’t get us the latest transmitter/receiver. We are lucky if a single sub can leave the harbour. I have my doubts that we would ever fully load a Vic. We will never have all subs available. In light of either German or SK torpedoes will be purchased to go into our new subs; why is Mk48 work continuing? Or did someone not get the memo.

 

[suffolkowner]

Hanwha for Canada: Hanwhas Package to rebuild the Canadian Armed Forces

I have been a part of this community for around three years now.

noahscornerofrandomstuff.substack.com

Noah with a look at Hanwha's proposals for Canada the sub obvious but artillery and MLRS less so plus Noah will be conducting an interview with the CEO of Hanwha later as well

edit
adding the three Hanwha proposals detailed by Noah

 

[Czech_pivo]

Hanwha for Canada: Hanwhas Package to rebuild the Canadian Armed Forces

I have been a part of this community for around three years now.

noahscornerofrandomstuff.substack.com

Noah with a look at Hanwha's proposals for Canada the sub obvious but artillery and MLRS less so plus Noah will be conducting an interview with the CEO of Hanwha later as well

Wow!
Good for Noah, quite the feather in his hat.

 

[YZT580]

Can CD-E212 launch VLS?

I still think KSS-III is the as-yet unannounced awardee.



RPN…geeky, but not super geeky…


To up-geek the thread, true HP-ophiles call it ‘stack operations’ vice RPN.

try pulling out your slide ruler in the mess some day or for aircrew, your Ferris wheel

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Don't laugh! I still have both my "classic" slide ruler and my disk slide ruler. When I started university, we were still not trusting calculators enough to NOT verify the answer with our slide ruler first before declaring the result OK.

You think it's weird? Watch the movie "Apollo 13". You'll see the engineers pulling their slide rulers out to check their calculations. That's exactly how it was in the late 60's and early 70"s. We hadn't learned to trust the computers yet.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Hanwha for Canada: Hanwhas Package to rebuild the Canadian Armed Forces

I have been a part of this community for around three years now.

noahscornerofrandomstuff.substack.com

Noah with a look at Hanwha's proposals for Canada the sub obvious but artillery and MLRS less so plus Noah will be conducting an interview with the CEO of Hanwha later as well

edit
adding the three Hanwha proposals detailed by Noah

View attachment 95709

The 2nd column seems to be a purchase we should have made years ago to Ukraine. but unfortunately I feel as if Ukraine might not make it to the new year.

 

[YZT580]

Don't laugh! I still have both my "classic" slide ruler and my disk slide ruler. When I started university, we were still not trusting calculators enough to NOT verify the answer with our slide ruler first before declaring the result OK.

You think it's weird? Watch the movie "Apollo 13". You'll see the engineers pulling their slide rulers out to check their calculations. That's exactly how it was in the late 60's and early 70"s. We hadn't learned to trust the computers yet.

we weren't allowed calculators at all in science. Trig tables and slide rules were the only aids.