Replacing the Subs

[PHughes]

That also assumes that governments don't change between now and delivery... If Germany says, "we want all our boats now, Canada can wait", since TKMS will be making them in Germany, Canada will wait.

Going with an option that has the production capacity to build our boats faster from the start means we reduce the risk of wait times caused by future political shifts.


Normally when I see someone so negative about one thing, and full of praise for the other, they have a motivation. A perfect example is car salesmen...

Simply pointing out the known design and capabilities of the two boats in comparison to the known very high level RCN SoR is being realistic.

Not jumping on the “bigger boat is better” bandwagon is being realistic.

We have so little actual factual information to work with, the boat’s specs are so secret and the details of the mission profiles the bidders will need to submit are unknown means an objective evaluation of the two boats is difficult if not impossible.

Either boat will be a huge leap forward for the RCN. Hopefully the kids at the pointy end of stick will get the boat that best suits their needs rather than politician’s careers.

 

[KevinB]

Hopefully the kids at the pointy end of stick will get the boat that best suits their needs rather than politician’s careers.

 

[OldSolduer]

Either boat will be a huge leap forward for the RCN. Hopefully the kids at the pointy end of stick will get the boat that best suits their needs rather than politician’s careers.

Or their offshore bank accounts.

Yes I am cynical.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Even with a contract with a company a government could do that. Break it and "steal" the boat.

The Brits did this in both world wars. Or at least WW1.

 

[NavyShooter]

The RCN did it during a strike in the 80s. As the tale goes, I think one of the old DDE's was up in Ontario (Welland...? Rings a bell) for a refit and the company went on strike, so the navy sent down the crew over a weekend, loaded up everything with the crane, and pulled the ship off the wall ourselves. Story goes that the strikers showed up Monday morning and took an hour or two to notice that the ship was gone.

I'll go looking for the reference....

 

[Rainbow1910]

Even with a contract with a company a government could do that. Break it and "steal" the boat.

Hell Canada did this ourselves to a pair of Chilean submarines just prior to the outbreak of WWI, effectively "stealing" them from a US shipyard and purchasing them via cheque outside American waters.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Canada won’t split its submarine contract between suppliers: Carney

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Mark Carney said Tuesday that Canada won't split its submarine contract between two suppliers.

www.thestar.com

Canada won't split its submarine contract between suppliers: Carney

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Mark Carney said Tuesday that Canada won't split its submarine contract between two suppliers.

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

"You just get too many efficiencies in economies of having one fleet," Carney said, adding that the efficiency of being able to cycle the same type of submarine if one is being tuned up is "just overwhelming."

So am I to assume that the exact same logic will be applied against the F35/Gripen saga?

 

[Underway]

"You just get too many efficiencies in economies of having one fleet," Carney said, adding that the efficiency of being able to cycle the same type of submarine if one is being tuned up is "just overwhelming."

So am I to assume that the exact same logic will be applied against the F35/Gripen saga?

Slow clap.

Good catch and well done. If they go with two fleets this will be held up by the opposition as a weapon and Carney will be beaten with it. I agree, only one fleet will be purchased.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Canada won’t split its submarine contract between suppliers: Carney

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Mark Carney said Tuesday that Canada won't split its submarine contract between two suppliers.

www.thestar.com

Canada won't split its submarine contract between suppliers: Carney

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Mark Carney said Tuesday that Canada won't split its submarine contract between two suppliers.

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

"You just get too many efficiencies in economies of having one fleet," Carney said, adding that the efficiency of being able to cycle the same type of submarine if one is being tuned up is "just overwhelming."

So am I to assume that the exact same logic will be applied against the F35/Gripen saga?

Can’t help but believe Carney is leaning towards Germany in order to prove or backup the claim that he wants to be an economic partner with Europe.

 

[YZT580]

Slow clap.

Good catch and well done. If they go with two fleets this will be held up by the opposition as a weapon and Carney will be beaten with it. I agree, only one fleet will be purchased.

perhaps the Admiral was simply trying to get the capabilities into service more quickly or is worried that Carney will go for the German boat along with its attendant delays. Getting the Korean boats as a partial fleet in his mind was better than no capability for at least 15 years. One boat is more or less useless

 

[Underway]

perhaps the Admiral was simply trying to get the capabilities into service more quickly or is worried that Carney will go for the German boat along with its attendant delays. Getting the Korean boats as a partial fleet in his mind was better than no capability for at least 15 years. One boat is more or less useless

Or he was just saying what he was thinking. Its part of the charm of VAdm Topshee.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Can’t help but believe Carney is leaning towards Germany in order to prove or backup the claim that he wants to be an economic partner with Europe.

Carney likes hanging out with Euro elites and not hard nosed Korean businessmen.

 

[KevinB]

Carney likes hanging out with Euro elites and not hard nosed Korean businessmen.

He’s also a businessman, and the South Korean deal solves a lot of Canada’s problems.

 

[Stoker]

Don't want to burst your bubble ... but we never have. I am not saying any more.

Yep we never went 24 nm under the ice and we never almost browned out on the way out....

 

[Czech_pivo]

Carney likes hanging out with Euro elites and not hard nosed Korean businessmen.

And which would PP hang out with? The SK's would drink him under the table and take him to the cleaners as he has zero real world business experience, but hey lets stereo type both of them in equal parts.

 

[Kirkhill]

My bet:

Korea and BC get the subs (and Eby has to swallow a pipeline).

Germany and Quebec get Rheinmetall tanks, guns, trucks, GBAD and Autonomy (PATH) (and Quebec swallows an LPG terminal or two and a pipeline to the Maritimes.

The US and Ontario get Raytheon missiles, Lockmart F35s and AEGIS and NORAD IAMD. I don't know what, if anything, Doug will have to give up.

....

Carney is every bit as transactional as Trump. He may be a bit more circuitous and willing to zig zag a bit more.

He wants to go green, but, as St Augustine said about his desire to be celibate, not today. Today he needs and wants to make money.
That means leaving behind the Trudeau faction (about half the Liberals that elected him leader).

To keep his job he needs to keep as many of them on side as possible. That means throwing scraps like gun bans to them. It means not scrapping Trudeau policies. It means delays, obfuscations, prevarications, modifying the laws, re-writing regs, declaring national interest emergencies, not hiring people to enact the Trudeau policies. Anything possible to trash can unhelpful policies without making the front page of the Globe and Mail.

And while getting Liberals elected and keeping his job, or at least his income.

 

[Czech_pivo]

My bet:

Korea and BC get the subs (and Eby has to swallow a pipeline).

Germany and Quebec get Rheinmetall tanks, guns, trucks, GBAD and Autonomy (PATH) (and Quebec swallows an LPG terminal or two and a pipeline to the Maritimes.

The US and Ontario get Raytheon missiles, Lockmart F35s and AEGIS and NORAD IAMD. I don't know what, if anything, Doug will have to give up.

....

Carney is every bit as transactional as Trump. He may be a bit more circuitous and willing to zig zag a bit more.

He wants to go green, but, as St Augustine said about his desire to be celibate, not today. Today he needs and wants to make money.
That means leaving behind the Trudeau faction (about half the Liberals that elected him leader).

To keep his job he needs tp keep as many of them on side as possible. That means throwing scraps like gun bans to them. It means not scrapping Trudeau policies. It means delays, obfuscations, prevarications, modifying the laws, re-writing regs, declaring national interest emergencies, not hiring people to enact the Trudeau policies. Anything possible to trash can unhelpful policies without making the front page of the Globe and Mail.

And while getting Liberals elected and keeping his job, or at least his income.

Today and well into the future he Canada needs and wants to make money

 

[PHughes]

My bet:

Korea and BC get the subs (and Eby has to swallow a pipeline).

Germany and Quebec get Rheinmetall tanks, guns, trucks, GBAD and Autonomy (PATH) (and Quebec swallows an LPG terminal or two and a pipeline to the Maritimes.

The US and Ontario get Raytheon missiles, Lockmart F35s and AEGIS and NORAD IAMD. I don't know what, if anything, Doug will have to give up.

....

Carney is every bit as transactional as Trump. He may be a bit more circuitous and willing to zig zag a bit more.

He wants to go green, but, as St Augustine said about his desire to be celibate, not today. Today he needs and wants to make money.
That means leaving behind the Trudeau faction (about half the Liberals that elected him leader).

To keep his job he needs to keep as many of them on side as possible. That means throwing scraps like gun bans to them. It means not scrapping Trudeau policies. It means delays, obfuscations, prevarications, modifying the laws, re-writing regs, declaring national interest emergencies, not hiring people to enact the Trudeau policies. Anything possible to trash can unhelpful policies without making the front page of the Globe and Mail.

And while getting Liberals elected and keeping his job, or at least his income.

Not so sure Carney is transactional enough to abandon his hardcore climate crisis/hysteria beliefs to support an oil pipeline to the west coast.

Although it would be fun watching Eby lube up and pretzel himself into axcepting one.

The middle ground might be to revive the old railway proposal to ship oil by rail to Prince Rupert. They claimed 600,000 ish bbl/day and the track system has been seriously upgraded since the proposal was made.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

And which would PP hang out with? The SK's would drink him under the table and take him to the cleaners as he has zero real world business experience, but hey lets stereo type both of them in equal parts.

I don't trust any politician to much and they are all slimy to a degree. Carney has bathed deep into those Euro elite waters and it's clear he follows their sirens call. He is mildly competent, which is a vast improvement over JT, but he is no messiah to follow.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I don't trust any politician to much and they are all slimy to a degree. Carney has bathed deep into those Euro elite waters and it's clear he follows their sirens call. He is mildly competent, which is a vast improvement over JT, but he is no messiah to follow.

I would say that just about any one that puts themself forward into any type of leadership/politician role has some degree of 'sliminess' to them.

It comes down to your belief of how slimy they are, are they your 'type' of slimy and what is your willingness to accept and 'fight/work' under their level of slime.

Life, from birth to death, is accepting a certain level of compromise.