Replacing the Subs

[suffolkowner]

(If we get the KSS-III) For you Aussie, I have special deal, 4 nicely cared for boats dirt cheap.......

why do you hate Australians so much?

 

[suffolkowner]

I didn't the know the Aussies waffled on the support in a fight with China over Taiwan.

"The report, released on 26 January, cites statements from the Australian defence minister, Richard Marles, and the chief of navy that Australia would make “no promises … that Australia would support the United States” in the event of war with China over Taiwan."

I didnt know that the US has a non waffly position. Has anyone checked with Trump lately?

 

[calculus]

they are just not building Virginias quick enough
it also means that Australia may need an interim solution as well

That's under active discussion, with KSS-III rumoured to be in the mix.

An alternative AUKUS path | The Australian Naval Institute

navalinstitute.com.au

Submarine proposal still stands – Hanwha - Australian Defence Magazine

Hanwha Ocean has confirmed that its proposal to supply diesel electric submarines to the Royal Australian Navy still stands, despite the AUKUS arrangement for nuclear-powered vessels | Nigel Pittaway

www.australiandefence.com.au

South Korea, Canada and a middle-power submarine: Can Australia join?

Sometimes, middle-power enthusiasts get overly excited about the potential for said states to work together. It’s almost as if you want to see those “little guys” grab the ball and run it all the way to the try line — or the end zone, for you Americans.

johnmenadue.com

 

[suffolkowner]

That's under active discussion, with KSS-III rumoured to be in the mix.

An alternative AUKUS path | The Australian Naval Institute

navalinstitute.com.au

Submarine proposal still stands – Hanwha - Australian Defence Magazine

Hanwha Ocean has confirmed that its proposal to supply diesel electric submarines to the Royal Australian Navy still stands, despite the AUKUS arrangement for nuclear-powered vessels | Nigel Pittaway

www.australiandefence.com.au

South Korea, Canada and a middle-power submarine: Can Australia join?

Sometimes, middle-power enthusiasts get overly excited about the potential for said states to work together. It’s almost as if you want to see those “little guys” grab the ball and run it all the way to the try line — or the end zone, for you Americans.

johnmenadue.com

the alternative AUKUS proposal errs in proposing additional Suffrens. This is not possible as there are no reactors built to power them. The French have already moved on from the K15 to K22 reactor production for the new ballistic missile subs, new aircraft carrier and the next batch of attacks

 

[Retired AF Guy]

That's under active discussion, with KSS-III rumoured to be in the mix.

Submarine proposal still stands – Hanwha - Australian Defence Magazine

Hanwha Ocean has confirmed that its proposal to supply diesel electric submarines to the Royal Australian Navy still stands, despite the AUKUS arrangement for nuclear-powered vessels | Nigel Pittaway

www.australiandefence.com.au

This report is from over two years ago. In fact, the schedule proposed in the article is pretty much the same one that SK is currently proposing for Canada. If Canada selects the KS-III, it might be pretty hard for SK to produced the KS-III according to the timelines proposed in the article.

The idea, as proposed in the John Menadue article of Canada-South Korea-Australia forming an alliance around the KS-III makes a lot of sense. And falls into PM Carney's Davos speech about middle powers forming alliances.

 

[MilEME09]

at this point, South Korea, and Hanwha have put so much carrots into investing into Canada, to the potential tune of creating hundreds of thousands of jobs, and billions of dollars to our GDP. I don't foresee how its possible that their bid doesn't win when the RFP closes at the end of the month

 

[Kirkhill]

4x KSS-III by 2035

South Korea's Hanwha Ocean proposed delivery of four submarines to Canada by 2035

SEOUL, Feb 4 : South Korean shipbuilder Hanwha Ocean said on Wednesday that it proposed the delivery of four submarines to Canada by 2035. Hanwha is one of two finalists - alongside warship builder TKMS - in a tender to supply Canada with a new fleet of submarines, estimated by industry sources...

www.channelnewsasia.com

By that time we should just about start receiving our first early 2030s River Class Destroyers.

4x KSS-III = 40x VLS cells at sea.

 

[IKnowNothing]

at this point, South Korea, and Hanwha have put so much carrots into investing into Canada, to the potential tune of creating hundreds of thousands of jobs, and billions of dollars to our GDP. I don't foresee how its possible that their bid doesn't win when the RFP closes at the end of the month

Between that, the delivery timeline, and the VLS driven versatility it should be a slam dunk.

I may have missed it, it but seems like discussion of the VLS (that I've seen) centers around offensive strike capability at other nations- but isn't there a huge value there in sovereignty/ defense of the North?

 

[MilEME09]

Between that, the delivery timeline, and the VLS driven versatility it should be a slam dunk.

I may have missed it, it but seems like discussion of the VLS (that I've seen) centers around offensive strike capability at other nations- but isn't there a huge value there in sovereignty/ defense of the North?

Yes, the Koreans are also working on an insert for the VLS to allow anti air missiles. One SLBM tube would become 4-6 anti air missiles. Would really add to its versatility.

 

[Czech_pivo]

This report is from over two years ago. In fact, the schedule proposed in the article is pretty much the same one that SK is currently proposing for Canada. If Canada selects the KS-III, it might be pretty hard for SK to produced the KS-III according to the timelines proposed in the article.

The idea, as proposed in the John Menadue article of Canada-South Korea-Australia forming an alliance around the KS-III makes a lot of sense. And falls into PM Carney's Davos speech about middle powers forming alliances.

It could also tie in with our purchase of the Australian long range radar from March of '25.

 

[GR66]

the alternative AUKUS proposal errs in proposing additional Suffrens. This is not possible as there are no reactors built to power them. The French have already moved on from the K15 to K22 reactor production for the new ballistic missile subs, new aircraft carrier and the next batch of attacks

Well, if Australia really wants to deter China (and hedge against possible lack of support from the US) then maybe they should get French SSBN's instead of SSNs....

 

[suffolkowner]

Well, if Australia really wants to deter China (and hedge against possible lack of support from the US) then maybe they should get French SSBN's instead of SSNs....

might be the way everyone ends up going if you are not happy with the sphere someone else has decided to put you.
Would they be better of with SSBN's or B21s?

 

[NavyShooter]

SSBNs provide a persistent presence that a B21 cannot provide....unless they initiate operation Chrome Dome again...

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Well, if Australia really wants to deter China (and hedge against possible lack of support from the US) then maybe they should get French SSBN's instead of SSNs....

I don't know. After the last little stunt the Aussies pulled on the French would they ever trust them again!!

 

[suffolkowner]

SSBNs provide a persistent presence that a B21 cannot provide....unless they initiate operation Chrome Dome again...

could the KSS3 or Virginias carry nuclear missiles?

 

[GR66]

could the KSS3 or Virginias carry nuclear missiles?

KS-III's carry short range ballistic missiles. Presumably they could be nuclear armed with a warhead of the appropriate size/weight.

 

[suffolkowner]

KS-III's carry short range ballistic missiles. Presumably they could be nuclear armed with a warhead of the appropriate size/weight.

yeah 500km and 1000kg? room for tweaking?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If Canada goes KSS-III, I suspect the Aussies will buy at least 4 as "Interim subs" followed by more as AUKUS collapses.