Reserve Armour Officer Cadets
- Thread starter Docherty
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
(Tongue-in-cheek) Officer Cadets are the lowest of low and are treated as such. They are not yet commissioned, so they don't rate a salute. Ptes have more time in and experience. One Hook Ptes and Cpls have more authority and responsibilities.
In all seriousness though they are just like any recruit, in that they will not be given any authority, or real responsibilities until they have gone off and done some training. As I said above, they don't rate a salute from anyone, but must salute all above them. They will also have the privledges of membership in the Officers Mess. Usually, by the time they have received their basic officer training, they will soon be promoted to 2Lt and then it is a whole different ball of wax.
GW
In all seriousness though they are just like any recruit, in that they will not be given any authority, or real responsibilities until they have gone off and done some training. As I said above, they don't rate a salute from anyone, but must salute all above them. They will also have the privledges of membership in the Officers Mess. Usually, by the time they have received their basic officer training, they will soon be promoted to 2Lt and then it is a whole different ball of wax.
GW
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
George, speaking from the perspective of an Officer Cadet, I feel that it is important to not some key differences between types of OCdts. First of all, you have the DEO OCdts, who likely have no military experience or background what so ever. Then you have the RMC Ocdts who, like myself have been in for a little bit, aka more than a year, have completed some training and are on their way to graduation (only like a thousand days or something until I march through the Arch) and then you have the UTPNCM/CFR crowd who likely have a bit of experience. For example, I have a guy in my English class, I believe he was a MCpl or something with RCD and did a tour in Afghanistan and has his Jump wings. In that same english class, I have an ex-bombadier from 2nd RCHA who has done a couple tours and again has his wings. That being said, I don't feel it is fair to tar us all with the same brush. But to each his own, I suppose. As well, on the topic of authority or responsibility, at least here at RMC, senior cadets are given leadership positions, such as section commanders, etc. The Cadet wing of 950+ people seems to run itself quite well with minimal staff. From the Cadet Wing Senior, who is in charge of the wiing, on down to section commanders and even the non-bar position cadets, we all have our responsibilities. I acknowledge we are not commisioned but please, grant us some respect. We are working toward being the best leaders we can. You can't just judge an OCdt by their stripe, you don't know what they've done before or what training they've done.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
Ah Big Foot....I think I know that RCD.......caught a glimpse of him this summer in Gag town. Now, hopefully you read (Tongue-in-cheek) before you went off on your tirade. Also, as you have mentioned life is a lot different in RMC that what young Docherty will expect to find when he walks into a Reserve Unit Officers Mess this Fall or Spring.......................Shouldn't you be studying for Christmas Exams soon? ;D (Stay away from those Caffeine pills.)
GW
GW
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Hehe, George, you know, I haven't been sleeping well for a week getting ready for these exams. Had my first one today. Wasn't too bad, but the next ones up... the next 10 days can't go by fast enough. But anyways, too often I've seen people, especially at the Mega, jumping on officer cadets. I don't much like it, but I suppose we are bottom of the food chain.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
No. You'll be an OCdt for a little longer than a couple of months. You have to do some time in the Reserve Unit as well as your BOTC and in my day you had to do Phase I ROUTP, later it became Phase I RESO and now I think it is called CAP Reserve. It'll probably take you a year, minimum. Time will fly when you're having fun.
GW
GW
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
*sigh* Yes we simple folk don't know much bout leadin' I s'pose.
*Hey mister corporal which end of this here rifle makes that boomin noise?*
You don't judge an officer cadet by anything but what he/she does, how they carry themselves and how good they are their job.
The same way you judge any officer or any soldier, sailor or airmen.
The pretty ring you carry on your finger (I am the son of an RMC graduate as well as a Sandhurst graduates grandson and a BRNC graduates great grandson etc.) is all well and good but I can say having been in and a byproduct of the system my entire life that the best officers are the ones who put it on their keychain or in a drawer and get on with their careers.
There was a time when where you came from meant more than what you do and that was how commissions were granted, those days are quite thankfully gone.
We're all now simply the bottom of the foodchain, regardless of where we go to school and as with anything else in the military hopefully the best will move on and the rest will not. Enough of making distinctions based on where the degree came from.
I've found in my tenure as an NCdt that we are gradually given minor responsibilities (more than I was given as a private anyway) but are just as quickly sent to get dirty. You get to enjoy the worst of both worlds might be a good way of putting it, while enjoying few perks.
If you're going in through a reserve entry you might be granted commission relatively quickly or it might...take...a....dogs...age depending on what you're personal life is like. As with anything else in the CF it depends on the speed of the powers that be when it comes to the speed, not that you should be terribly concerned with how long it takes, at which you get a commission.
*soap box is somewhat bent under Che's weight*
*Hey mister corporal which end of this here rifle makes that boomin noise?*
You don't judge an officer cadet by anything but what he/she does, how they carry themselves and how good they are their job.
The same way you judge any officer or any soldier, sailor or airmen.
The pretty ring you carry on your finger (I am the son of an RMC graduate as well as a Sandhurst graduates grandson and a BRNC graduates great grandson etc.) is all well and good but I can say having been in and a byproduct of the system my entire life that the best officers are the ones who put it on their keychain or in a drawer and get on with their careers.
There was a time when where you came from meant more than what you do and that was how commissions were granted, those days are quite thankfully gone.
We're all now simply the bottom of the foodchain, regardless of where we go to school and as with anything else in the military hopefully the best will move on and the rest will not. Enough of making distinctions based on where the degree came from.
I've found in my tenure as an NCdt that we are gradually given minor responsibilities (more than I was given as a private anyway) but are just as quickly sent to get dirty. You get to enjoy the worst of both worlds might be a good way of putting it, while enjoying few perks.
If you're going in through a reserve entry you might be granted commission relatively quickly or it might...take...a....dogs...age depending on what you're personal life is like. As with anything else in the CF it depends on the speed of the powers that be when it comes to the speed, not that you should be terribly concerned with how long it takes, at which you get a commission.
*soap box is somewhat bent under Che's weight*
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I think you mean CAP(R). It is a 6 week course broken down into 3 x 2 week modules. If you have the time, you can take it 6 weeks straight.Docherty said:
BOTC, in 41 CBG, consists of BMQ and a 5 day addition course. BMQ can be taken on weekends.
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 430
Che said:
Couldn't have said it better myself....
To tie in with George....you may have all kinds of responsibilities in RMC, basically they are designed to see how you would perform under stress, to see what your decision making process performs etc.
Going to an operational Regiment....your responsibilities and duties at school mean nothing to the troops. You have to prove yourself all over again, not only to Snr officers but NCOs, who will watch everything you say and do with a keen eye. You will be taught all over again, to a much more demanding standard of what you need to do and how you need to perform.
This is the norm.
The troops depend on solid leadership of officers who can make sound decisions in the heat of things. Seen a lot of Jnr Officers come and go, transfered because they couldn't make the cut. The leadership taskings and such at RMC are just a taste of what is to come.
As for the guys who have "time in" that are at RMC right now...they know what is expected of a Jnr Officer and how they are regarded by the higher ech. They are in for the challenge of doing it "from the other side of the fence" so to speak.
Carry on and good luck.
Regards
RMC does provide an excellent taste for leadership, and it builds skills and experience (at least one would think), but just as the academic lessons learned in the college setting do the same thing, they are not necessarily what you will experience out in the "real world".
Just as you wouldn't take your 4 year engineering degree and run up to a bunch of senior engineers and state you know all about this major project because you have a degree from a great school and a year of co-op, you wouldn't either do the same thing with your leadership experience gained at RMC.
Unfortunately from what Ive heard from many Senior NCO's... a lot of Jr. RMC grads do this. Heck, a lot of Jr. Officers do this.
On the flip side, it can be very hard to be a junior officer, Id imagine.... You are under pressure from all sides, and yourself.
You want to perform, you want to support your soldiers, and you want to gain the respect of your superiors, and your Snr NCO's, all while trying to figure out just how to really get it done on your own, without knowing that after next week the course is over or that after today since you passed your eval you are done with it.
In any event, I give respect to those who have completed RMC for having completed RMC.... I don't know that it necessarilymeans they will all be great leaders, but it should be good prep anyway.
Cheers.
Just as you wouldn't take your 4 year engineering degree and run up to a bunch of senior engineers and state you know all about this major project because you have a degree from a great school and a year of co-op, you wouldn't either do the same thing with your leadership experience gained at RMC.
Unfortunately from what Ive heard from many Senior NCO's... a lot of Jr. RMC grads do this. Heck, a lot of Jr. Officers do this.
On the flip side, it can be very hard to be a junior officer, Id imagine.... You are under pressure from all sides, and yourself.
You want to perform, you want to support your soldiers, and you want to gain the respect of your superiors, and your Snr NCO's, all while trying to figure out just how to really get it done on your own, without knowing that after next week the course is over or that after today since you passed your eval you are done with it.
In any event, I give respect to those who have completed RMC for having completed RMC.... I don't know that it necessarilymeans they will all be great leaders, but it should be good prep anyway.
Cheers.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
I am 44 years old. Have been accepted into DEO and will start BMQ in July.
Does anyone have any advice or opinions good or bad, for what I can expect or can prepare for in the future. I am really looking forward to a career in the reserves, but need some reassurance.
Does anyone have any advice or opinions good or bad, for what I can expect or can prepare for in the future. I am really looking forward to a career in the reserves, but need some reassurance.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
First place to start is with the recruiting threads on this site:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html
There is a TON of good info there, much of it applicable to your situation.
Some other advice (as a DEO Armour guy years ago)...
1. Get fit. If you aren't doing PT now, start. The fitter you are, the easier the course will be.
2. Attitude is everything. The more effort you put into being a team player and in maintaining a cooperative, enthusiastic attitude, the better you'll do.
3. As a Reserve DEO, you might have recieved a commission as a 2Lt. It means nothing on BMQ, so don't try to lord over the officer cadets you'll be on course with.
4. Inspections, etc. are important. Passing the PO (Performance Objective) checks is even more important. Yes, that's a hint.
5. The guy running around, trying to "lead" his fellow candidates and demonstrate how much better he (or she) is than everyone else is sure to earn the antipathy of his peers and (perhaps) the "attention" of the Directing Staff (DS).
6. The DS is right - don't bother arguing, you won't win...
That's about all I can think of for now. Good luck!
Mods: now that I've blathered on, you might want to move this thread over to the Recruiting forum...
TR
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html
There is a TON of good info there, much of it applicable to your situation.
Some other advice (as a DEO Armour guy years ago)...
1. Get fit. If you aren't doing PT now, start. The fitter you are, the easier the course will be.
2. Attitude is everything. The more effort you put into being a team player and in maintaining a cooperative, enthusiastic attitude, the better you'll do.
3. As a Reserve DEO, you might have recieved a commission as a 2Lt. It means nothing on BMQ, so don't try to lord over the officer cadets you'll be on course with.
4. Inspections, etc. are important. Passing the PO (Performance Objective) checks is even more important. Yes, that's a hint.
5. The guy running around, trying to "lead" his fellow candidates and demonstrate how much better he (or she) is than everyone else is sure to earn the antipathy of his peers and (perhaps) the "attention" of the Directing Staff (DS).
6. The DS is right - don't bother arguing, you won't win...
That's about all I can think of for now. Good luck!
Mods: now that I've blathered on, you might want to move this thread over to the Recruiting forum...
TR
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Concerning your future Armoured training:
Attitude:
I have to agree with Teddy Ruxpin concerning attitude - BIG emphasis on this. I did my DP 1.1 (formerly known as Phase III) training last summer, and Gagetown has adopted a new method of training and evaluating its students.
As far as I know (and I could be a bit off since I was not in Gagetown for training when they used this method), on your traces you would follow a strict procedure. The first one would be a demo by the DS staff; the second you would be doing, but as a TA (teaching assist), meaning the DS would intervene and correct mistakes you make along the way; the third would be your pass/fail trace where the DS would just sit in the loader position (in the tanks anyway - not sure about the Cougar for the reserves...) and let you go on your own. In general, you could be a complete non-social-put others down-not team player-yahoo and still pass the course if you did your traces effectively.
Now Gagetown utilizes the "total person concept". This method is very effective as it not only gives you more chances to pass because it caters to the level you are functioning at and works to develop your skills, but a person can also fail merely for poor attitude. So, overall, you could be the modern incarnation of Rommel and still fail because of attitude.
Respect:
About the 2Lt thing - Definate agreeance there. Last summer on my course we were at the ranges late one night doing live fire. A bunch of the drivers that were going to join us for our tactical portion of phase lived a floor above us and were supposedly being a little noisy. Rather than respectfully ask these people to quiet down, several 2Lts who had just arrived for ARTLC went upstairs and started jacking them up and calling them to attention and such, while another called the MPs on them.
NOT a good idea. Your drivers not only know more about the vehicle than you, but they can also be the deciding factor in whether you pass or fail your course. I found that they worked extremely hard for me and my buddies, but when some guys started yanking them around a bit, they would start following orders verbatim, such as move the vehicle in a linear path to the next bound rather than use the terrain to your advantage (or even worse, crank the heat up in the back of the vehicle so the poor GIB was dying...).
Have fun!:
Other advice I offer you is to relax and have fun. It is kind of stressful because you want to do so well, and you'll probably do several written tests a week. Save Griffin's for when you have time to go and party. Make sure you know your jazz, because a lot of the tests you will take require precise word-for-word answers as dictated in the texts.
The Armoured reservists lived right across the hall from me last year, and one of the guys who goes to school here with me did that course last summer as well. If you have any questions, feel free to send me a message and I will try and help you out the best I can.
Attitude:
I have to agree with Teddy Ruxpin concerning attitude - BIG emphasis on this. I did my DP 1.1 (formerly known as Phase III) training last summer, and Gagetown has adopted a new method of training and evaluating its students.
As far as I know (and I could be a bit off since I was not in Gagetown for training when they used this method), on your traces you would follow a strict procedure. The first one would be a demo by the DS staff; the second you would be doing, but as a TA (teaching assist), meaning the DS would intervene and correct mistakes you make along the way; the third would be your pass/fail trace where the DS would just sit in the loader position (in the tanks anyway - not sure about the Cougar for the reserves...) and let you go on your own. In general, you could be a complete non-social-put others down-not team player-yahoo and still pass the course if you did your traces effectively.
Now Gagetown utilizes the "total person concept". This method is very effective as it not only gives you more chances to pass because it caters to the level you are functioning at and works to develop your skills, but a person can also fail merely for poor attitude. So, overall, you could be the modern incarnation of Rommel and still fail because of attitude.
Respect:
About the 2Lt thing - Definate agreeance there. Last summer on my course we were at the ranges late one night doing live fire. A bunch of the drivers that were going to join us for our tactical portion of phase lived a floor above us and were supposedly being a little noisy. Rather than respectfully ask these people to quiet down, several 2Lts who had just arrived for ARTLC went upstairs and started jacking them up and calling them to attention and such, while another called the MPs on them.
NOT a good idea. Your drivers not only know more about the vehicle than you, but they can also be the deciding factor in whether you pass or fail your course. I found that they worked extremely hard for me and my buddies, but when some guys started yanking them around a bit, they would start following orders verbatim, such as move the vehicle in a linear path to the next bound rather than use the terrain to your advantage (or even worse, crank the heat up in the back of the vehicle so the poor GIB was dying...).
Have fun!:
Other advice I offer you is to relax and have fun. It is kind of stressful because you want to do so well, and you'll probably do several written tests a week. Save Griffin's for when you have time to go and party. Make sure you know your jazz, because a lot of the tests you will take require precise word-for-word answers as dictated in the texts.
The Armoured reservists lived right across the hall from me last year, and one of the guys who goes to school here with me did that course last summer as well. If you have any questions, feel free to send me a message and I will try and help you out the best I can.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Dear Sir:
Good advice from all who have responded thus far. Interesting to note, the part of basically keeping your mouth shut was brought up at my interview. Respectively. Because of my, sorry to say, age, and experience, the officer conducting the interview simply cautioned me not to say too much during courses, on fear that it could be possible that I would make my instructor look bad, which could be bad for me later. Also, he said that since I am going through Basic with guys more than half my age, I could lose my patience. Also bad for me.
One common denominator that I have seen thus far through the recruitment process, is that any military personnel I have come in contact with thus far have been more than helpful. A refreshing change from my daily civilian work routine. I guess I am looking for something similar to fire department activities. Are there anyone out there who have a combination of fire fighting / reserve training?
If so, does Fire fighting training make a good cross over to military training?
respectfully yours.
Good advice from all who have responded thus far. Interesting to note, the part of basically keeping your mouth shut was brought up at my interview. Respectively. Because of my, sorry to say, age, and experience, the officer conducting the interview simply cautioned me not to say too much during courses, on fear that it could be possible that I would make my instructor look bad, which could be bad for me later. Also, he said that since I am going through Basic with guys more than half my age, I could lose my patience. Also bad for me.
One common denominator that I have seen thus far through the recruitment process, is that any military personnel I have come in contact with thus far have been more than helpful. A refreshing change from my daily civilian work routine. I guess I am looking for something similar to fire department activities. Are there anyone out there who have a combination of fire fighting / reserve training?
If so, does Fire fighting training make a good cross over to military training?
respectfully yours.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
brunswickfire said:
Very true. The advice refers to what is known as the "grey man" theory - I should have mentioned it earlier. You want the DS to know who you are, that you worked hard and did well - but that's about it. Drawing undue attention to yourself is a sure way to:
(1) Course Glory, whereby you become the focus of the DS and Top Candidate, but the rest of the students may hate you and the remainder of the Army won't give a rat's a** that you were Top Candidate in a year or two.
or
(2) Abject Failure, whereby the DS monitors your activities to the point where you can't seem to do anything right...
Be the "grey man". The objective is to make the training as painless as possible for yourself and keeping your head down is a good way to do it. As has been pointed out, very hard work and a helpful, cooperative (but not know-it-all) attitude that demonstrates a genuine desire to work with your course-mates is the key.
I don't have any experience with firefighters in the Army, but it seems to me that your experience will be a bonus. Physical fitness, ability to perform under stress and make rapid decisions are all traits both jobs share.
Gunner: Yes, I survived...despite your constant blading and whining to the DS... (JK
) Bloody he*l, that was a long time ago!!
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
The way my old Sgt Maj explained to me was to aim for second place. First meant you were too much of a suick-up. 2nd place meant you had done your homework, and worked hard, without the extra attention.
Best of luck on your course!!!
(and may you come in second!)
Best of luck on your course!!!
(and may you come in second!)
