Reserve Pension- Merged

[brihard]

My buyback somehow got simultaneously lost AND garbled. While I was overseas I had two concurrent lines of communication by email, one claiming that it required some recalculation or something, and one saying that it pretty much just didn't happen. I'm baffled and lost as to the entire process and where I may or not be in it, which in turn is probably dependent on who I ask.

I want to track down which office in Ottawa I need to physically visit to start getting this sorted out. This is ridiculous. I submitted all the documentation they asked for, on time, and still nothing...

 

[dapaterson]

If you had a line of communications with an individual (and not a generic positional mailbox) keep it open, ask for a full update on what has and has not been done, and what may be outstanding.  Keep copies of all your emails.  And if you can't get joy from the person you are dealing with ask to be forwarded to their boss.


My two rules of thumb when dealing with any part of the government:

1.  Get it in writing; and

2.  If it isn't working out, go to the next level.

Rule 1 also implies that after a phone call you should type up a summary of what was discussed and send it to them - so there's a permanent record of what was discussed and/or decided with both you and them.  And if they never reply or attempt to correct it, it stands as the only documentation.

... now I'll go back to reading Queen vs Cognos...

 

[Rifleman62]

While speaking on Peter Stoffer’s Bill C-201 (the “claw back” of the CFSA at 65):

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS  - May 12, 2009   
Mr. Laurie Hawn (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, CPC)

Nobody understands this responsibility better than our government. In looking back over our record since we took office, I do not think anyone could question our support for the Canadian Forces. We would never settle for a retirement plan that shortchanged the men and women who serve Canada.

P.S. This thread is not about the in/outs of Bill C-201. I just like his statement of the governments position on CF pensions. Anyway, C-201 is aimed at  the Reg F and RCMP and does not involve the reserves.

 

[Rifleman62]

The GM Story, selected exerts:

"The governments of the United States, Canada and Ontario yesterday announced they would collectively pledge US$60-billion in loans to GM to help the bankrupt company reinvent itself. Canadian taxpayers alone will contribute US$9.5-billion, split two-thirds federally and one-third provincially. Part of the money will let GM pay its underfunded pension liabilities".

"Critics countered that taxpayers are the biggest losers in the rescue, a third of whom don’t even have company or union pensions of their own".

"But Prime Minister Stephen Harper held out almost no hope Monday that the bulk of the money will be repayed."

And the  federal governments rips off Reserve members buying back their pension. Go figure.

 

[Ed]

Brian, you there?  Did you get my msg.

 

[Michael OLeary]

"The governments of the United States, Canada and Ontario yesterday announced they would collectively pledge US$60-billion in loans to GM to help the bankrupt company reinvent itself. Canadian taxpayers alone will contribute US$9.5-billion, split two-thirds federally and one-third provincially. Part of the money will let GM pay its underfunded pension liabilities".

So, the temporary propping up of a failed corporation is worth half the annual investment we currently put into National Defence?

GM Canada's pension plan troubled before market collapse (15 Nov 2008)

GM had representation at a meeting yesterday with Premier Dalton McGuinty, whose province is home to most of General Motors of Canada's more than 30,000 blue-collar retirees – and which collects tax revenue on average pensions of $16,376 a year.

If the Provincial Income tax on the average GM pension is over $16K, what is the average pension?

Federal and provincial tax comparison for 2008

Assuming it's an error and that average is the combined federal and provimcial taxes, then the average pension is about  $70,000.

Since we're now paying fr it, how about that GM pension package at least get rolled back to what Canadian civil servants and soldiers receive.

 

[dapaterson]

Generally, to my knowledge, autoworker pensions are similiar to civil service / military pensions - about 2% per year (CPP adjusted at 65), based on the average of the 5 best years.  But since there's overtime included in the calculation of the 5 best years, careful schedule padding and manipulations can reuslt in a lot of overtime in that period, increasing the value of the pension.  Plus, certain benefits are incldued in the pension that are taxable in the hands of the recipient.

 

[logmore]

I am curious, do you all actually understand how the prior service buybacks are calculated???? and how they come to the exuberant figures that they present. Pension services has been vague and misleading about this as it would very likely cause some outrage if the troops had of been presented the figures in clear understandable language.

this is particularly important for those with over 20 years service as they are the one who are being punished the mos for their loyalty

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Do you?

 

[dapaterson]

Prior Service:

Step one:  Using a complex mathematical formula based on wage increases, inflate all your prior earnings to current year earnings.

Step two:  For each calendar year of inflated earnings, calculate the contributions for the part-time pension plan using the current contribution rate.  Those rates have increased by 0.3% each year for the past two years; you snooze, you pay more.

Step three: Add 7% compound interest to each year above.  Add them together for all your years of service.

Voila.  Your contributions to the Reserve Pension Plan.


If you are moved into the full-time plan,

Step four:  For each year's inflated earnings, calculate what your contributions would have been if you had earned that much and were a contributor to the Regular Force plan (based on current year contribution rates and YMPE).  If your Reserve contributions calculated in step two (above) are more, no change.  If they are less, pay the delta between the Regular Force and the Reserve Force plan.

Step five:  Add together your Step 3 and Step 4 contributions.

Voila!  Your contributions to the Reg F pension plan.


There are additional considerations.  You are now getting employer contributions to your pension. These reduce RRSP contribution room, and what's called a "Past Service Pension Adjustment" is necessary - if you lack sufficient unused RRSP contribution room, you may have to withdraw money from RRSPs and have it taxed in your hands to allow you to buy back your full service.  The CF Pension office will send your file to CRA for confirmation; if you don't have enough contribution room, CRA will send you a letter telling you how much you need to withdraw.


In my case, for example, I transferred about $60K from my RRSPs to the pension plan (payments and interest).  I had about $22K in unused contribution room for RRSPs.  However, the employer contributions for my prior service are worth roughly $45K.  For adjustments like this, you are allowed an $8K over-contribution (which will be reduced over time).  So:  $45K employer contribution - $22K contribution room - $8K over-contribution = $15K too much in RRSPs - I had to withdraw $15K from RRSPs which will be taxed in my hands this year.

Oh, and from the day the CRA sends you the PSPA notification to the day you return it in the mail, with the RRSPs withdrawn is a maximum of 30 days - so get ready to act quickly.  (You can request extra time if you need to).

 

[kratz]

<rant>I am livid about this buyback and the delays in processing. My 9er was just informed they will take $3400 from her pay next month for the back money owed since she signed the forms 17months ago. We accept the buyback of pensionable time, the issue is without knowing how much to save per month, we have not known if we needed to hold back $100, $200 ect..each month. The way things appear is a pay it of lose it proposition. There is not $3400 coming in per month, so there is no means of covering that chunk of change. Effectively, this generouse ability to pay for pensionable time is a wasted effort. Not to mention the need to adjust the monthly budget to cover the additional $203 per month for now on to continue to buyback pensionable time. I am not going to be happy when the other shoe drops when my paperwork comes back. This pension frustration, aggravation almost makes me think it is not worth it.</rant>

 

[dapaterson]

Kratz:  SIlver lining in that cloud:  They are catching up if they are only 17 months behind; when I began finalizing mine it was 23 months later.  (Mind you, there are still outstanding details on it)

 

[dapaterson]

Talk about efficient!  In November 2006 I submitted a Privacy Act request for my pay records as held in the RDS system.  Today, some 2 1/2 years later, I got an email asking me to confirm my mailing address as they finally managed to find them.

Imagine if I had waited those 2 1/2 years for the records, instead of submitting what I had two weeks after the coming-into-force:  I'd be paying 4.9% contributions instead of 4.3%, and there would be another 2 1/2 years of 7% compound interest charged.  In my case, very rough estimate, it would have cost me an additional $11K - if I had waited for DND to obey the law and provide me with my documents.

I'm not certain whether or not this is a word, but it's complete and utter jackassery.

 

[dapaterson]

I got the package in the mail.  The computer records apparently have not been recovered; what I got was photocopies of microfilms with printouts showing training half days, full days, misc credits, gross pay, taxes deducted, and net pay.  These are the old 11x17 sheets.  All other names and SNs are blacked out on the listings, but the dollar amounts are shown.


Most amusing off all is the sheer bureaucratic stupidity evidenced in the brick I received.  They included a copy of my request.  On my request I specified in writing "This request is submitted IAW the Privacy Act (R.S., 1985, c. P-12) s12 and s13."

Or, in English:  "This request is official.  It means you have to obey the law."  They chose not to.

I do have some sympathy for the current staff - they are in an unwinnable situation.  Their predecessors from 1999 on, when the Government first authorised pensions for Reservists, failed to keep the records in a readable condition, and failed to keep the computer data in a computer readable format.  Those are both violations of the Library and Archives Act.

DND has demonstrated an utter contempt for the laws of the country in this process.  In a less imperfect world, there would be accountability.

 

[TaraRMS]

I had to go to my MP to get my Reserve Pension even looked at five months after my release--and I had all the appropriate paperwork completed and in to them--I was a 3B release and entitled to an "immediate annuity"...immediate is now 14 months along and still don't have any resolution!  I transferred my RFRG and agreed to all the buyback/paying back conditions in Feb 09 so I don't understand the hold up.  I have also received the SAME package of paperwork (banking, deductions etc) from the Benefits section twice--five months apart and seem to get different stories about my file from different clerks--computer problems, it's going for payment...I'm still waiting!    And they don't seem to realise that those of us on LTD will have to pay back SISIP so that can create a financial hardship...And to top that one off, I was even told by a clerk at Pensions that I wasn't entitled to have both the Pension AND LTD!   

Is anyone else having problems like mine?

 

[Rifleman62]

TaraRMS, who is your MP; what did he/she actually do; was he/she aware of the delays/problems/CI/inflated wages; and any reaction to the points that he/she was aware of?? just my curiosity/
My previous MP Stephen Fletcher and his COS did SFA.

 

[TaraRMS]

My MP is Rod Bruinooge...he forwarded everything up and I received a form letter from MND...at least it got my file looked at...but that was last Sep...and since then it's been a lot of back and forth with various clerks--it's very true that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing and that's what's pushed me over this past week...getting the same paperwork over again almost five months after the first lot!

I actually phoned my MP's office last week, and the person I spoke to seemed unaware of the issue and didn't have a file with the details.  Another person from his office left a msg today saying they wanted to look into the matter again. They should have been following up all through this! 

On Friday, I called the Ombudsman's office and was told that they often get faster results than going through the MPs.  So...I am getting my thoughts together before calling the number they gave me and see what happens there.

My take on all of this?  They could care less--from the MND/CDS on down--have you EVER heard any of them talk about this issue??  I am, quite frankly, tired of hearing about how overburdened the Reserve Pension office is, how many files, no staff, no office space.  Whatever!  Not our problem!  I've even read documents where senior people admit that they're not looking after us, but what can they do but advise us to wait it out.  Can you imagine?!!!  Wait it out?  They don't even bother letting us know what (if anything!) they are doing to address all the problems, as a group or individually.  It's just damage control on each file--and here's something to give you pause--when I asked the guy in the Pension office if they kept files on each member with copies of all the correspondence/forms etc, HE DIDN'T KNOW! 

What's happening with your case Rifleman62?  What can we do to sort this out??!

 

[Rifleman62]

TaraRMS

PM to you.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Perhaps our politicians just aren't aware enough. I wonder if everyone went to their individual MPs and asked for a Ministerial Inquiry, what the outcome would be?

 

[Ed]

Hello to all.  I recently sent an email to MP Peter Stoffer complaining about the 7% compound interest on buyback of former reserve service as compared to the 4% simple interest that all other public servants pay on buyback.  He responded by phone and asked me to send that to him by mail (which I did) and he would take it to the chairman of the treasury board.  My MP Andy Scott has the same info and I think all of the reservists on this forum should send the same email/letter to their MP so we can make this a cross Canada united effort.  There are many problems with the pension plan but the single most important and cost cumbersome is the higher rate of interest  If we can get one thing fixed it should be this.  Please write your MP asap before parliament breaks for summer.  Thank-you, Ed.