Reserves while in high school?

[Dend91]

I'm thinking about joining the army if i dont get a scholarship for football, and i was wondering if it would be a good idea to join the reserves after my gr 12 season (ends around november) until i find out which way i am going. what would the hours be like, pay if there is any, and would there be any problems switching from reserves to regular after i graduate. I'm 17 btw

 

[Michael OLeary]

It would be a great idea and you might want to visit a Recruiting Centre soon to find out what you need to do to start the process.  Until then, you'll find answers tt your other questions by using the search function and reading through the Recruiting FAQ.

 

[infamous_p]

I'm thinking about joining the army if i dont get a scholarship for football, and i was wondering if it would be a good idea to join the reserves after my gr 12 season (ends around november) until i find out which way i am going. what would the hours be like, pay if there is any, and would there be any problems switching from reserves to regular after i graduate. I'm 17 btw

Quick response for you:

Hours - usually 3 hours per week (one "parade night" per week), and usually two weekends per month (which means full time weekend, @ a training base on exercise from Friday night to Sunday night).

Pay - depending on your rank level, pay increases as you move through the ranks via promotion, starting at somewhere around $75-80 for a full day I believe it is now (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I could be quite off).

Switching from reserves to regular should pose no problems, provided you qualify for the trade/occupation you are wishing to enter into and/or have no medical/administrative limitations to your name... there are many, many people who decide that they enjoy the lifestyle and decide to make the transition from the reserves to the regular force.

Please do a search on the questions you've asked, there are a plethora of answers around here and the same questions have been asked many times.

Cheers

 

[bran]

I know that this doesn't really fit into the whole topic but I didn't want to start a new thread. Just wondering how long the process of resigning from the reserves usually takes, from the time you send in a memo? I am currently in college and balancing both BMQ and school is a lot harder then I had anticipated. Also I would like to rejoin a little down the road once my schooling has balanced out in the next few years, so just another question, if I was to reapply in a few years this wouldn't have a negative impact on me would it?

Thanks for the help

 

[geo]

Start off by asking for "Leave".... that way, you can concentrate on your schooling - while your release process moves ahead.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

WHat Geo says is right. People think that because they hand in a memo for release that they dont have to continue to parade. The admin process is slow, and you can be NES and 5f'd in short order if left hand isn't talking to right. Staff the ED&T request, but make sure you don't just drop off the paperwork in a mailbox...You .won't know if it's filled out properly, and the approval for it starts at your platoon level...Otherwise, it just sits there...and you become NES.

Another thing people need to keep in mind as well, is that ED&T requests aren't automatic. You need to be seen or spoken to by your chain of command and it requires approval at several levels to be in effect.

Your CO can authorize up to 90 days of ED&T, Bde Comd from 90-180, Area Comd beyond...All require reasons beyond 'I don't really think I like this' or " I have something else I would rather be doing cause the weather is lousy"..

 

[CountDC]

WHat Geo says is right. People think that because they hand in a memo for release that they dont have to continue to parade. The admin process is slow, and you can be NES and 5f'd in short order if left hand isn't talking to right. Staff the ED&T request, but make sure you don't just drop off the paperwork in a mailbox...You .won't know if it's filled out properly, and the approval for it starts at your platoon level...Otherwise, it just sits there...and you become NES.

Another thing people need to keep in mind as well, is that ED&T requests aren't automatic. You need to be seen or spoken to by your chain of command and it requires approval at several levels to be in effect.

Your CO can authorize up to 90 days of ED&T, Bde Comd from 90-180, Area Comd beyond...All require reasons beyond 'I don't really think I like this' or " I have something else I would rather be doing cause the weather is lousy"..

Wow - if you are being 5F'd NES after you have submitted your request for release there is a real problem at your unit - and with you.  NES releases is a long process that requires a couple notices sent to you.  Considering your request for release and your NES are both done by the admin staff through the CoC the NES release should never make it through the system.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

ED&T's are not a right. They have to be approved through the chain of command, as does the NES system including the letters signed by the CO. There are always chronic cases that have to be dealt with, and as I state above, sometimes the left hand doesnt talk to the right. Having years and years ago been NES due to travel elsewhere around the world, and having gotten the 'nastygram' from the system, I am passing on some words of wisdom, because I know. I had also staffed the ED&T request, and it was lost...I should have made sure everything was signed off, approved and on fil ethe way it was supposed to be, so part of the responsibility was mine....Anyway, the NES process can be a messed up animal. Take for example the friend of mine who recieved the CF's intent to release him, while he was on a mission in Bosnia. With the CF....Nice. But hey, it was his fault I am sure.

The NES list is long. It's also arduous to staff and execute. It was simply a caution to the guy to make sure he gets his situation sorted properly....Where did you get that NES'ing people or releasing people is how I do business? At the platoon level, once someone clears my platoon and their file is returned to the Coy or BOR, they're not my issue.

If someone initiates a request for release and fails to clear out or go through the release procedures, and does not bother to show up in the meanwhile, they can be 5f released. How is this a problem with me or my unit? The process is relatively clear.

ED&T is a REQUEST - If somewhere along the line the request is denied, then the member needs to be informed - or the NES process MAY (if there are enough admin staff to execute it) be initiated. When someone has been declared NES, they are not even technically able to parade until they have been interviewed and signed off by the RSM. If the RSM refuses to sign because of someone being chronically absent, then the member has very few options left, especially if they have already had the letter system initatied for their status and recommended release.

Certain individuals in an office may be assigned certain types of files. There may not be opportunities for cross referencing or chasing down one person's situation.

As for there being problems with me, the list is probably long, but opinions are like...Oh, but hey, everyone has one....Opinion that is.

 

[CountDC]

ED&T's are not a right. They have to be approved through the chain of command, as does the NES system including the letters signed by the CO. There are always chronic cases that have to be dealt with, and as I state above, sometimes the left hand doesnt talk to the right. Having years and years ago been NES due to travel elsewhere around the world, and having gotten the 'nastygram' from the system, I am passing on some words of wisdom, because I know. I had also staffed the ED&T request, and it was lost...I should have made sure everything was signed off, approved and on fil ethe way it was supposed to be, so part of the responsibility was mine....Anyway, the NES process can be a messed up animal. Take for example the friend of mine who recieved the CF's intent to release him, while he was on a mission in Bosnia. With the CF....Nice. But hey, it was his fault I am sure.

if you are requesting ED&T which is not a right then it is your responsibilty to follow through and ensure that it is approved rather then submitting the form and assuming it will be processed. It is a members responsibilty to ensure they have an approved copy of any ED&T prior to departing - if you didn't have the form then it is your fault.
In your example of your friend this is a clear case of a problem with your unit at all levels involved but I will put the majority of the blame on the clerk as they of all people in the process should have picked up that your friend was deployed.

The NES list is long. It's also arduous to staff and execute. It was simply a caution to the guy to make sure he gets his situation sorted properly....Where did you get that NES'ing people or releasing people is how I do business? At the platoon level, once someone clears my platoon and their file is returned to the Coy or BOR, they're not my issue.

NES list is not arduous to staff and execute - it is actually a simple laid out process. If it is a long list then the unit needs to look at what they are doing wrong.  Never said, insinuated or indicated releasing was your business so have no idea where that comes from.

If someone initiates a request for release and fails to clear out or go through the release procedures, and does not bother to show up in the meanwhile, they can be 5f released. How is this a problem with me or my unit? The process is relatively clear.

for some reason you seem to think the post was specifically about you.  Your example here is a case that proofs my statement - it is the members fault.  S/he submitted the release request, did not follow through and would receive the notices prior to being released 5F NES.

ED&T is a REQUEST - If somewhere along the line the request is denied, then the member needs to be informed - or the NES process MAY (if there are enough admin staff to execute it) be initiated. When someone has been declared NES, they are not even technically able to parade until they have been interviewed and signed off by the RSM. If the RSM refuses to sign because of someone being chronically absent, then the member has very few options left, especially if they have already had the letter system initatied for their status and recommended release.

If it is refused or approved then the mbr should certainly be informed as they are supposed to receive a copy of the signed off form. If they have not received the form then they should be asking about it - I always told the members to check every week as it really should not take long for it to go through the chain. As for enough admin staff for NES- it only takes one to initiate - the first step is the letter that takes a minute to call up on the computer, insert the members particulars, print and send through for CO signature.  NES mbrs are certainly not allowed to parade until authorized and I have removed lots of members names from the paysheets for that reason.  If the RSM refuses to sign then the member has the option to go over his head, submit a redress or submit a request for release and clear out.

Certain individuals in an office may be assigned certain types of files. There may not be opportunities for cross referencing or chasing down one person's situation.

If there is enough staff for such action then certain files can be assigned to a specific clerk - has no bearing on the process as a clerk processing a release should check the pers file where a copy of the ED&T (rather approved or rejected) should be.  Thus there is not only the opportunity for cross referencing it is imperative that the clerks do so. If the ED&T is received after NES is started this should be picked up when the clerk PA's the form and the NES process stopped (if applicable). If not picked up at that time then it certainly should be when the NES clerk goes to the next step as they should be checking the pers file again just in case some action was done without their knowledge. If everything is done properly then the conflict would also be picked up when published into the pay system - of course this is based on the clerk doing their job.

As for there being problems with me, the list is probably long, but opinions are like...Oh, but hey, everyone has one....Opinion that is.

The problem I seen was misunderstanding the post and assuming it was specifically about you instead of a broad statement - unless of course you are being released 5F NES after submitting a request for release  ;D.

I am sure that you have noticed the lots of "should" in there.  This is because I am aware that not all clerks do what they should - I consider this a fault of the Clerk, unit members and the CoC.  The clerk part is obvious - they know (or at least should find out) what has to be done and should be doing it.  Unit members - complain complain complain - can't say it enough, complain to the clerk, complain to everyone you can. Do the complaints in writing if needed with all the details to the CoC. Too many people only complain to each other in the mess. CoC - upon receiving all these complaints should be taking steps to correct the situation - if not then they are the problem. Mind you a really good CoC should pick up the problem with normal monitoring of staff work instead of relying on rank and file complaints.  One or two complaints can be passed off as a minor problem but if a large number of members are consistantly complaining there is a problem for the CoC to deal with.

 

[R. Jorgensen]

I'm thinking about joining the army if i dont get a scholarship for football, and i was wondering if it would be a good idea to join the reserves after my gr 12 season (ends around november) until i find out which way i am going. what would the hours be like, pay if there is any, and would there be any problems switching from reserves to regular after i graduate. I'm 17 btw

Just do it, I'm only 16 (Grade 11) and I've already submitted an application; super stoked.

 

[MARS]

  Never said, insinuated or indicated releasing was your business so have no idea where that comes from.
for some reason you seem to think the post was specifically about you. 

The problem I seen was misunderstanding the post and assuming it was specifically about you instead of a broad statement quote]

Wow - if you are being 5F'd NES after you have submitted your request for release there is a real problem at your unit - and with you.

I thinkHollywoodhitman was responding to your statement of 5 Nov.  I certainly thought you were implying something was wrong with him.  Just one of the uncertainties of non face-to-face communication I guess.

However, both CountDC and Hollywoodhitman raise valid points.  There is no really good reason why someone who has submitted a request for release or ED&T would be inadvertently classified as NES.  But obviously, from the posts (and from my own experience), it does happen - albeit without malice.  In my Unit, Service request Forms are issued by the Coxswain (RSM).  They are reviewed and signed by a couple of different OPIs before making their way to the Ship's Office (BOR).  Lots of things happen that cause these forms to stall somewhere - none of them good reasons, but they do - someone is absent or someone files it incorrectly - whatever.  Compound this with the fact that too often, by the time someone is applying fro release or ED&T, it is already the 11th hour - they start their Master's program in Ireland TOMMORROW (true story) and I am only now seeing the request for ED&T, which as was posted, i need to send to my Formation HQ for approval.  All to say that, too often, by the time someone is submitting their request, they are already out the door.  This is certainly an internal problem that I am trying to rectify with my dept heads, but it does happen and i doubt mine is the only Unit that has this happen.  Meanwhile, the Ship's Office is generating NES letters based on the attendance figures so they are working in some isolation from the Coxswain's office and if the communication chain has temporarily broken down, then yes, I might find a NES letter crossing my desk for signature when I know that a ED&T request is working its way through the system.  If I happen to be aware of the request - cancelling the NES letter is easy.  But with 200 people under my Charge, if I am not aware and that ED&T request has - without malice - stalled somewhere prior to being received by the Ship's Office - then I am liable to sign off on that NES letter.  Again, easily corrected when I have the member's divisional system standing in my office to explain, but it is somewhat embarrassing for the Unit and confusing for the member.

So, ONT, listen to geo, Hollywoodhitman, and CountDC, but most importantly, stay in touch with your unit until the process is well and done and then you should be able to avoid these administrative pitfalls.

Cheers,

MARS

 

[Steel Badger]

For what it's worth..... I try to coach my young soldiers who are finding school consuming their time towards staying in if they wish to continue in the military "down the road". After 23 years in, I can say that it is only in the exception that young soldiers who release intendng to rejoin later actually do so...
It is actually easier for the PL 2ic and his CSM to deal with a minimal attender. ( Ie one whose attendance is limited due to school....not thru lack of desire..)
I can think of many of my own troops that went thru several years of bare minimum attendance during School / Uni / OPC / apprenticeships, but who are still with the Reg't. Once they got through the tough bits, they paraded regularly. Many of whom I have had the pleasure of welcoming into my own mess....

Perhaps what I am saying is consider carefully the leave and ED&T options prior to release...  for the reasons outlined in the previous posts....

My 2 afghanis


Cheers


SB

 

[Eye In The Sky]

For what its worth, we also used to strongly suggest mbr's transfer to the Supplementary Reserve from the Primary Reserve if they had any intention of being either PRes or RegF soldiers in the future.  I believe you can keep your qual's for 5 years while in the SuppRes but don't quote me on that.  I've seen PRes mbr's up to the rank of Captain take a 2 years transfer to the SuppRes and then come back to The Regiment (in the case I am thinking of, I believe it was done to further his studies and start a family).  The last time I saw this Officer, he was a Major, a father and I believe he finished his Masters.

 

[R. Jorgensen]

For what its worth, we also used to strongly suggest mbr's transfer to the Supplementary Reserve from the Primary Reserve if they had any intention of being either PRes or RegF soldiers in the future.  I believe you can keep your qual's for 5 years while in the SuppRes but don't quote me on that.  I've seen PRes mbr's up to the rank of Captain take a 2 years transfer to the SuppRes and then come back to The Regiment (in the case I am thinking of, I believe it was done to further his studies and start a family).  The last time I saw this Officer, he was a Major, a father and I believe he finished his Masters.

So the SuppRes is for personnel who, for example, want to finish Post-Secondary? They transfer to the SuppRes to "cancel training" in a sense so that they can finish their degree(s)?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So the SuppRes is for personnel who, for example, want to finish Post-Secondary? They transfer to the SuppRes to "cancel training" in a sense so that they can finish their degree(s)?

Its not *for* that specifically, but it is an option for a member of the Regular Force or Primary Reserve to transfer to the "Sup Res" rather than releasing completely from the CF.  There are various reasons a mbr might want to do this.

Taken from the OPME DCE 001, Defence Management - Module 1, Lesson 9:  The Reserve Force

9.2.2 Supplementary Reserve

Role
The primary purpose of the Supplementary Reserve is to augment the other components and sub-components of the CF with previously trained personnel in times of national emergency or mobilization, or both. Its secondary purpose is to augment the other components and sub-components of the CF, with the consent of the Supp Res member, when required, during normal peacetime situations.

Composition and Organization
The Supplementary Reserve consists of officers and non-commissioned members who, except when on active service, are not required to perform military or any form of duty or training.
The Supplementary Reserve is a sub-component of the Reserve Force and consists of officers and non-commissioned members who are former members of other components or sub-components of the CF, and selected personnel without previous military experience who have special skills or expertise for which there is a military requirement.

Supplementary Reserve (Supp Res) Administration and Pay
A member of the Supp Res may be posted to another component or sub-component when the period of service is less than 180 days. When the proposed period of service is greater than 180 days, the member of the Supp Res is normally transferred to the component/sub-component proposing the period of service. A notable exception to this policy is former Reg F and P Res NCMs required to assist with the delivery of the Canadian Cadet Program, since there are no NCM establishment positions in the Cadet Instructor's Cadre to which they can be transferred.

When members of the Supplementary Reserve are attached posted to another sub-component of the Reserve or Regular Force they are administered and paid by the unit in which they serve. The Supplementary Reserve Human Resources administration is conducted at NDHQ by ADM HR-Mil staff. A member of the Supplementary Reserve is not entitled to receive pay unless he is on duty or training while on active service or while on voluntary attachment to the Regular Force or another sub-component of the Reserve Force.

 

[MARS]

EITS post is bang on.

Just to elaborate on the practical differences between ED&T and SuppRes (at least as they apply in the Naval Reserve):

ED&T: your billet is "held" for you.  This means that out of my unit establishment, lets use 180 sailors for example, we hold/reserve your billet open for you while you are away.  When your ED&T expires, you return to the Unit on the next scheduled training period, sign in and carry-on.  You are still carried on the books and in the pay system.

Supp Res: your billet is not held for you.  In your absence, particularly if it is prolonged, the unit may have recruited someone into that billet.  I can only have 180 sailors on PRes service in my Unit, if I reach that number I can't accept any "new" PRes sailors.  Transfer to the SuppRes is more involved (from an administrative sense) than ED&T and when you want to return to service, you need to make a request (because you have been removed from the pay system and the books).  That takes some time, so a return to the Unit is not as quick and easy as someone who was on ED&T.

If, big IF, I have reached my establishment, then I can Attach Post a member from the Supp Res to my Unit.  I don't know if there is a limit to the number of people AP'd from the SuppRes that can be carried on a Unit's books - my HQ continues to approve my requests, so if there is one, I have yet to reach it.  The advantage of being AP's from the Supp Res is that it enables the member to return to the Unit, get paid and do fun stuff.  The disadvantage is that time served on an AP from the Supp Res is not pensionable or promotable (see Note).

Note 1: this is how the system works in the NR - it may very well be different in the Militia.
Note 2: I am not, say again, not a RMS clerk, nor did I consult my Chief Clerk prior to posting this, so if any of what I have written is incorrect, mea culpa.

 

[R. Jorgensen]

Interesting.