reservist taking good positions

[George Wallace]

2Bravo

This would also allow the School to send more of the Troopers/Cpls back to the Regiments to fill slots there.  Perhaps solving the problem of driftwood in the School.

 

[reccecrewman]

Well, I have to add that you don't see too many Res Force crewman taking our positions on the Coyotes overseas.  None on my tour anyway.  Most blackhatter Res types were banished to Transport or the lucky ones got a Bison Amb drivers position over at HSS.  You really don't hear too often about Res Force guys taking holes away from Reg Force crewman..............

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Whhaaaaattt??.......Do I hear the walls of another myth starting to crumble?

 

[Hunter]

sorry yah english for the franco's although the gaspe bay guys could use a franco course as well! ;D

Where is gaspe bay (sic)?  Is it anywhere near the Gaspe PENINSULA?

 

[ZipperHead]

As I am at the School, and worked with the soldiers on the floor (the K lines) up until Sep, I will weigh in with my perspective: The Reserves are damned if they do, damned if they don't. We want them to come to the School to take the pressure off the soldiers who are in the field all the time, but "we" don't want them to get the good courses (Coyote Driver..... not that that course is a "choice" course, as every Reg Force soldier (minus LdSH(RC) DFS troopers) get it during DP1). If the Reserves fill driver positions, that would allow more senior soldiers (pers with a tour or two) to POSSIBLY get gunner's positions (I say possibly, as I know that gunners courses (historically) are far more expensive than drivers courses, although with the 66-rounds shot for a Basic Gnr's Course, I don't know anymore...). We can't have it both ways: wanting Reservists to fill the gaps, then force them into second class citizen (read as: non-crewman) jobs: Transport, perenial gate-guards, pot-wallopers, LO's driver etc. Would YOU want to do that for your whole tour, particularly if it's your first????

For the most part, the Reservists at the School try to fit in and get their job done. If they want to go on tour, why not??? A recurring bitch that all Reg Force guys have is the lack of experience that Reservists have, and a tour is good experience. I personally don't like seeing Reservists get jammy goes on tour (particularly if it is their first one) while some of the the "vets" are stuck in the troops, again, because of a lack of PCF courses given to the Reserves. It's a classic Catch-22.

I have heard the classic line, repeatedly, that School soldiers should be able to go on tour. To a degree, I agree, but I mostly disagree. Why? Who is going to replace the School soldiers (while they are gone) for a tour? Someone from the Regiments, of course. And most guys, if they are going to be gone from home for 6+ months (including the time it would take for the School guy they are replacing to do TMST), they would rather be overseas, getting the experience, pay, etc. The thing that the long-time School guys have to get into their heads is that the Regt isn't going to just land the plane at the Fredericton airport on the way to a deployment, pick up Cpl Bloggins, say "Hi! You're my driver for the next 6 months, glad-ta-meetcha!!!!", and then fly back to Fredericton at the end of the tour. That's not the way it works. You want a tour: get posted to the Regiment. For more than a year (or two)..... that's a pointed jibe at the guys who "air-drop in" for a tour, then scurry back to the comfort of the School. A soldier should not spend more than 4 years at the School. Period. Yes, the bad old days (with no postings) were indeed bad, but they are behind us. Pack up your macaroni box, and get down to being a soldier.

I think a solution (everything old is new again.....) is to have a Squadron here (a la A Sqn VIII CH, or C Sqn RCD, both of which I was in) to provide flexibility for the School, and a Squadron for the Corps, and an excellent opportunity for soldiers to have it both ways: stay here if they like being "down east", and a chance (albeit small) to deploy overseas. With the way that the Army is expanding full-bore, I can't see why this couldn't happen. I haven't heard anything whispered about this in Carpetland (J7), though I can always whisper it in the ears of pers that may be able to bring it higher (to the Corps). It's crazy enough of an idea that it might work..... if you don't ask, you don't get.

Coldfalker, I would take the suggestion given to use spell check and use capital letters, as MSN-speak is discouraged here, and frankly, causes people to disregard your transmissions. You don't have to try to speak like a Rhodes Scholar, but a little clarity and focus goes a long way to getting your point across.

Al

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Very good Allan. Thank you. Nice to hear it from the other side.

 

[reccecrewman]

Allan,  I have to say it...........  Getting senior guys into Gunners holes ain't a problem anymore.  When I first got posted to the RCD, I went to Recce Sqn. and was one of about 12 Troopers in the whole Squadron.  ALL gunners and surv ops and a good chunk of drivers were Corporal and up, but with the advent of us becomming a Recce Regt., that has all changed.  The once mighty Recce Sqn. got busted up and scattered all over the Regiment to try and spread the Recce experience out in the other Squadrons.  There's theres been a ton of OT's, releases and postings and the end result for us is a whole slew of open positions.  Op Athena Roto 3 saw 'B' Sqn's 2Tp. deploy with one Corporal and he was the Troopies driver.......... 3 Tp. had 3 Corporals and 1 Tp. had 3 as well.  There was more than a few gunners holes occupied by Troopers with less than 2 years in..................

And now I'm in 'A' Sqn. which is deploying in Aug. 06 and the Troop I'm in now has 4 Corporals............. And three of us are not allowed to deploy because we were on Roto 3 so they have 1 Corporal......... The rest of A Sqn is in similar shape.

Where o where have all the Corporals gone?

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Allan,

I haven't seen many Cpls get posted back to the Regt from the School, but then again I haven't been tracking it either.  To post a Cpl from the School to the Regt takes a cost move to fill a line serial that can by filled for free from the BTL.  In an ideal world a given qualified soldier would not deploy again until the other qualified soldiers have done so (all else being equal).  Having a pool of soldiers who do not deploy while another deploys constantly can be bad for both groups.  Augmentees from the School to a deploying Task Force does create a hole at the School that needs filling but there are ways around that (taskings and/or reserve employment opportunties).  Having a Recce Sqn in Gagetown  as you suggest would certainly be handy (heck, we could call it C Sqn).

Reccecrewman,

My year in Recce Sqn/ISTAR Coy/D Sqn showed me how much of a advantage a group of seasoned Cpls gives you.  The core of the Sqn was a group of Cpls who had served in Kosovo as Tprs.  Add to that several MCpls who had been with the Sqn for several years and we had outstanding junior level leadership.  It came through on tour and during the Cav Cup.  I know that several have since taken an OT, gone UTPNCM, been promoted or been posted.  Hopefully, a crop of new Cpls comes out of the group of Tprs who have been deploying over the past two years in each Sqn. 

Cheers,

2B

 

[armyvern]

I don't like the fact I can't seem to get a tour from here in Gagetown either but like it or not, Gagetown is a Level 4 training Base. 2RCR, 4ESR and 4AD are our 1st line operational Units.

For those of us posted to CTC and 3ASG, our priority job is to support the training system. CFTPO is out for TF1-07, 2RCR leading, CSS staffing seems to be tasked out to LFWA and 36 Bge here in LFAA. There are those of us RegF support trades who had memo's in for a couple of years requesting operational deployments as well, but alas, unless we here at 3ASG get a no-fill posn from one of the aforementionned to task someone into, we will not be going either. Sad, as I'm not used to being in-country this long at a time and am itching to deploy again. 

But hey, that's life I guess when posted to a Level 4 priority training establishment rather than being posted to a Force Generating Unit/mounting Base such as Pet, Edmonton or Valcartier. Ergo also the reason we are the lowest priority for Clothe the Soldier accoutrements.

 

[ZipperHead]

Allan,  I have to say it...........  Getting senior guys into Gunners holes ain't a problem anymore.  .....

.....

Where o where have all the Corporals gone?

If there are any constants to military life through the millenia is that a soldier is never happy. If it isn't: not enough tours, or too many tours; unhappy with current boss/position/rank/posting; need a change; in the field too much, or not enough; equipment is too old, or too new (not enough training); too much PT, or too little PT; NCO's micro-managing or not passing on enough info/knowledge/etc, it will be something else.

The reason I say this is the current climate (from my sometimes perceptive point of view) is that the soldier's in the School (and the Regt's from what I hear) are unhappy, and have low morale. I know, I know!!! It's shocking that somebody with an office job can pick up on these things. Here's the news flash: it's always been like this. Just after I joined and came back from Cyprus, there were about 3 Cpl's (crewmen) in Recce Sqn (Petawawa '89). Then during the bad old days in the early to mid 90's, we had 1 Pte (a Craftsman) in all of C Sqn RCD (an independent Sqn of ~140 soldiers). These things are always going to come and go in cycles (huge recruiting blitz, then 20 (and soon to be 25) years down the road, a huge amount of people releasing. It happens in police forces, fire departments, you name it.

One of my many pet peeves (but definitely in my Top 10) is people moaning about how bad they have it, without a point of reference (i.e living through the bad old days) and no solution. I hear a lot of that emanating from the floor of the hangars (be it Edmonton or Gagetown, and I have no doubt it happens in Petawawa, Valcartier, Botswana, etc), and it negatively effects the young soldiers who look up to the sources of the rumblings. They (the young soldiers) then think it is fashionable to complain, and will in fact do so at any opportunity to "fit in". Here's another news flash: the NCO's (myself included) think the pers doing the complaining are just whiner's, and disregard the drivel. If you have a complaint (and I'm not directing this at anyone in particular...), think about how bad it really is, think through a few solutions (playing Devil's Advocate on each), and then present it to you superiors.

I will give an example of how incessant whining can be counter-productive: last year at the Armour School, we had our Men's Christmas Dinner (I will not call it the PC version, out of spite) in the BFK (Big F*&&^ing Kitchen), and people complained, because at the end, the Sr NCO's and Officers were "rushing" people out the doors (due to cleaning up the tables to: A) get over to the Mess for the enforced At Home to the Officers (yes, that's a whinge), and B) let the next unit get in). So people complained, and the RSM decreed that we would hold it in the Sim Center, so soldiers would get more time to relax (i.e Power-Drink) afterwards. So the Sim Center became a kitchen, with all the tables being set up, hayboxes getting trucked over, and the Mens Christmas Dinner happened. Well, wouldn't you know it, after we tore down around the soldiers (again, because we had a compulsory Mess function afterwards), there was a grand total of 0 (that's zero) soldiers sitting around relaxing (and that could also have been because of the enforced 2 beer maximum  :). Boy, wasn't that worth all the effort to convert the Sim Center to a kitchen, when there was a perfectly acceptable (and much more convenient from every point of view) mess hall available?!? The moral of the story: think before you vent.

Anyway, people do realize that soldier's are unhappy. Sometimes (and perhaps too often, in my books) the powers that be recognize this and try to rectify it. But if a person wants to OT, let 'em go (I had my OT in twice). If they want to release, let 'em go. Gone are the days when they would promise the world to someone to keep them in (CLC/JLC/PLQ/6A/Jump Courses, posting to Germany, RSM's first born). If a person is unhappy with their current situation, they need to be a big boy/girl and decide what is best for themselves. And running away from something, rather than to something, rarely works out. After having said all of this, yes, I am unhappy with the way that things are within the CF, society, and life in general, but playing the "victim" (woe is me!!!! I deserve SOOO much better!!!!), while in fashion, doesn't accomplish much. I won't recite that "Lord, give me the strength to accept...." spiel, but it does have some truth in it (or a lot of truth, but I'm too lazy to decide if that's the case).

I haven't seen many Cpls get posted back to the Regt from the School, but then again I haven't been tracking it either.  To post a Cpl from the School to the Regt takes a cost move to fill a line serial that can by filled for free from the BTL.  In an ideal world a given qualified soldier would not deploy again until the other qualified soldiers have done so (all else being equal).  Having a pool of soldiers who do not deploy while another deploys constantly can be bad for both groups.  Augmentees from the School to a deploying Task Force does create a hole at the School that needs filling but there are ways around that (taskings and/or reserve employment opportunties).  Having a Recce Sqn in Gagetown  as you suggest would certainly be handy (heck, we could call it C Sqn).

2Bravo: I do agree (in theory), but the part that I highlighted is too true to be good. Money drives too much "logical" thinking, when the reality is that sometimes we have to pry open the purse for the greater good of the School/Regt/Corps/CF. Basically "abandoning" soldiers in one place doesn't do anyone any favours, as people grow roots, and then trying to get them out is nigh on impossible. People are given the option far too often (again, in my opinion) on whether they "want" to take a posting. The QL crap is an easy out too often ("my dog is too attached to the local fire hydrant for me to get posted", "There aren't any French schools in Edmonton for my kids": the first I made up, the second is what someone said for real, even though it isn't true). People's hands need to be forced more often (take the posting, or: take your release/reduction in rank/no further TOS/whatever will make them move). Yes, that is harsh, but so is life. And "asking for a posting" doesn't include mentioning it once, at a Sqn party to the SSM, when he is 3 sheets into the wind, and expecting him to remember it right before Merit Board/Career Manager visit. The reason I say this is because I hear it from guys who have been here at the School long enough that they remember when J7 was being built (and they haven't left since) have said that as an excuse why they haven't left. It also goes for guys at the Regt's who won't leave there for the same types of reasons, so you end up with the same pool of guys travelling back and forth between the Regt and the School.

Anyway, that's my rant for the day....

Al

 

[armyvern]

Basically "abandoning" soldiers in one place doesn't do anyone any favours, as people grow roots, and then trying to get them out is nigh on impossible. People are given the option far too often (again, in my opinion) on whether they "want" to take a posting. The QL crap is an easy out too often ("my dog is too attached to the local fire hydrant for me to get posted", "There aren't any French schools in Edmonton for my kids": the first I made up, the second is what someone said for real, even though it isn't true). People's hands need to be forced more often (take the posting, or: take your release/reduction in rank/no further TOS/whatever will make them move). Yes, that is harsh, but so is life. And "asking for a posting" doesn't include mentioning it once, at a Sqn party to the SSM, when he is 3 sheets into the wind, and expecting him to remember it right before Merit Board/Career Manager visit. The reason I say this is because I hear it from guys who have been here at the School long enough that they remember when J7 was being built (and they haven't left since) have said that as an excuse why they haven't left. It also goes for guys at the Regt's who won't leave there for the same types of reasons, so you end up with the same pool of guys travelling back and forth between the Regt and the School.
Anyway, that's my rant for the day....
Al

I agree with you on this Alan. 2 weeks ago when we did our bulk issue of the new belts and the mortar gloves here at Gagetown, I made PLCC cards for staff/permanent posns a must in order to be issued. I had to do this because of the non-entitled students that managed to get through for thermal blankets because Units included them on their nominal rolls and we ended up having to recall them.

I was absolutely shocked by the sheer number of personnel who came through with their PLCC cards for issue of the gloves and belts whose PLCC Cards still had their Social Insurance Numbers on them vice their service numbers. I believe we went to the Service number in 1992/3. That to me means that there are far too many pers still in the same location 13/14 years later. Grow roots is correct. And it's just not the Army...I know purple tradesmen (RMS/Sup etc) who have managed to never spend a day in the field just by doing the CFB Halifax-shore/ship/Shearwater little circuit their entire careers. I also know others who have been in Pet their entire careers (Sup techs), granted some willingly, going from 1st Line Unit to 1st line Unit over and over again.

Funny thing is, despite all my time in Army Units, all my tours came while serving on Air Bases, go figure.

Edited to add: Ack!! I lied...my tour to Namibia in 89 came while I was posted to Halifax.

 

[reccecrewman]

Allan, After reading your most recent post, I have to say that in no way was I complaining about our current state of affairs.  I actually embrace the situation the Corps is finding itself in.  I was merely pointing out the fact that all the senior positions are no longer held by the Corporals.  It is my opinion that this situation now has caused a good number of senior Troopers and junior Corporals that actually have a desire to advance within the Corps light a fire under their asses.  I'm seeing Corporals with 6 months in their rank getting loaded onto PLQ's and Troopers getting gunners courses.  A few years back, this was unheard of.  There was no cause to get Troopers onto Gunners courses because they were 3-4 years away from being placed in those positions.  With all the new blood coming into the Corps and the old Guard with an eye to retirement, this can only mean more Master Corporal positions available to Corporals.  The old stall at the rank of Corporal is now gone and the complacency attitude that went along with it is now dissolving because now guys know that when they get promoted to Corporal, they can very well be a Jack in 3 years if they apply themselves and that is nothing but good for the Corps.

 

[geo]

Point of order....
Should school soldiers be sent there - permanently?

Have taught many schools, many courses... but at one point in time, I pack my bags and head out - back to my unit's lines.

 

[orange.paint]

Well heres my 2 pence's worth.
I'm posted to HQ sqn from petawawa,i have no plq as of this date but i have been driving for the past few courses and the reservists's have been out there when many goons and strats sat back in hanger lines due to sick chits etc. I find the nice thing about down here your left alone to do your own thing mainly due to your higher being too busy to baby sit as at the regiments which is fine by me. The PT level here has also changed mainly due to the posting in of fresh blood from all the three regiments which is great, but you gotta realise much of your physical conditioning has to come on your own time. Lets face it if your running for the 35 minutes allotted in the morning (45 -50 minutes with the cool down etc) your not going to benefit yourself.It has to be done on your own time regardless of what the fat bastards in the smoking area seems to think.

As for someone bitching due to no tours, your at the school. If we sent lets say 10 percent of track troop and the coyote troops to Afghanistan this spring who the heck is gonna drive the vehicles here? 10 percent might not sound like a lot but you must realise half of the people here are on chit,appointments,etc to keep from their arch Nemesis petersville.

"I'm seeing Corporals with 6 months in their rank getting loaded onto PLQ's and Troopers getting gunners courses.  A few years back, this was unheard of.  There was no cause to get Troopers onto Gunners courses because they were 3-4 years away from being placed in those positions. " --rescue

I understand what your saying.When we were all in A sqn after roto13 it was the same thing.The our problem we had was shq was all troopers and we had plq qualified guys driving our grizzlys.But in the end my pdr/per didn't suffer.I do understand to the point of no getting experience in the turret which all senior guys SHOULD be getting.But in retrospect Ive seen mcpls come here to the school saying holy guntknuckle I'm on this crew commanders course with little to no turret time and do just fine.

The french issue. I heard a lot of bitching at the regiment about them sticking together and not mixing with the Anglo's.Just think of this.Take you and your four buddies and rebadge you 12 rbc, who are YOU going to buddy around with when all you know is "qui non, cest moi auto?" Now i do agree they should be given English courses but why not take advantage of having the frenchies there and learn french yourself.If my dumb ass can learn it so can you.And look at it this way if the all learn good English thats 2 points on their per you will have to compete with.

As for clothe the soldier stuff. who cares.Do I really need the new combat belt? (its the belt of combat you know).

And the main thing is here at the school your career didn't die, your moral dies which kills your career.I'm doing just fine here due to the fact that on the 15th 30th (earlier if it falls on a weekend) I get paid a lot of money to be what i want to be which is a soldier.

simple tip if moral fluctuates remove pay statement from folder check....yes the people of Canada just paid me 50,000 plus last year to stay in shape and drive gun crew command cool vehicles.maybe not the best vehicles in the world but it could be worse.

example of worse?: the poor Rwanda guy who had to club the guy to death with a stick, that poor guy didn't get issued a gun! And he didn't have the combat belt(the belt of combat).

 

[geo]

imagine - Russians at Stalingrad would be issued 5 bullets and was told to pick up the 1st available weapon from a corpse