Reservists Job Protection Superthread

[SupersonicMax]

Well, training is one, hiring is an  other one.  It's certainly not cheap to train in some fields.  It costs around 20 000$ to train a civilian pilot for a type rating on a specific aircraft...

Max

 

[muskrat89]

I can't speak for alternate-hires, but I know when an employee gets injured, much of the industry uses a 5:1 ratio when computing direct costs to indirect cost. In other words, an injury requiring $1000 in medical costs probably cost (the company) an additional cost of $5000 - in lost time, lost productivity, taking someone out of an existing position to fill that one, the time/productivity lost when training a replacement, administrative costs (paperwork, investigations, etc). I know that my analogy is not a direct fit, but it more complicated than "Remove employee 12652; allocate that employee's wages to new employee 17899"

 

[tank recce]

Mikeg81,

If you're talking a McJob, sure - from the employer's perspective, it's plug'n'chug. I don't think most people at a fast-food job are terribly worried about retaining their position upon return from a tour.

But - what about a skilled position? A professional position? A professional position in a unique company dealing with proprietary technology? I was seriously considering a tour (personal life intervened); my employer and I sat down, and we figured to minimize the disruption I'd need to give him 3 MONTHS notice, to recruit and train up to speed a suitable replacement.

It ain't just $50 for an ad in the paper. Recruiting for certain positions can cost THOUSANDS, plus lost production (other people covering the hole AND carrying out instruction) as the new guy goes through the training process. A Reservist can be a wonderful employee for a company. A Reservist going off on tour can be a nightmare.

My .02

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As for the rest...sounds like a Human Rights complaint to me. But I'm not so stupid to think that the HRC would do anything to help.

You have to prove to the HRC that they didn't hire you because of this or that, employer are not stupid and have work around to avoid costly actions. Also if you are in a small industry with specialist skills, a HRC complaint will be the kiss of death, no one will hire you.

 

[oldpond]

Manitoba already passed this in 2007.  Nice to see the idea spreading across the country.  Good sign that support is strong. 

Now if I can just pass my methacholine challenge test...

 

[geo]

Some other little problems when you run off on a course / mission....
- what happens to your pension plan contributions while you are away
- what happens to your company health insurance plan while you are away - for you, your spouse & the kids
- what happens to seniority, etc, etc, etc

without financial incentives and tax breaks, this isn't going anywhere.
You have to make an employer WANT to hire you AND WANT to let you go on career courses, trade courses AND the occasional deployment

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Never forget that this is a double edged sword.  I can attest from personal experience that prospective employers are very,very wary of hiring reservists in jurisdictions with employment protection legislation.  I was grilled for atleast 20 minutes of a one hour preliminary interview and about 3/4 of my hour+ long final interview on the subject of my future intentions with the Reserves and possibilities of future deployments.  I eventually declined the position offered and elected to effect a CT to the RegF.

Job protection may not be an issue any longer in some jurisdictions; however, finding a job in those jurisdictions will become one.

So with the same legislation, why can't they make it illegal to ask if your a Reservist, on your app or interview? Same as religion or race. Kinda 'Don't ask, don't tell'.

 

[Roy Harding]

So with the same legislation, why can't they make it illegal to ask if your a Reservist, on your app or interview? Same as religion or race. Kinda 'Don't ask, don't tell'.

It's going to come up in the interview process.  What are your outside interests, hobbies?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's going to come up in the interview process.  What are your outside interests, hobbies?

Camping, hiking, ATVing, hunting & long quiet walks in the moonlight ;D

 

[daftandbarmy]

Never forget that this is a double edged sword.  I can attest from personal experience that prospective employers are very,very wary of hiring reservists in jurisdictions with employment protection legislation.  I was grilled for atleast 20 minutes of a one hour preliminary interview and about 3/4 of my hour+ long final interview on the subject of my future intentions with the Reserves and possibilities of future deployments.  I eventually declined the position offered and elected to effect a CT to the RegF.

Job protection may not be an issue any longer in some jurisdictions; however, finding a job in those jurisdictions will become one.

All the more reason to look for work at an organization that supports the CFLC

http://www.cflc.forces.gc.ca/

 

[geo]

All the more reason to look for work at an organization that supports the CFLC

http://www.cflc.forces.gc.ca/

sooo.... not the CF? ???

 

[Haggis]

So with the same legislation, why can't they make it illegal to ask if your a Reservist, on your app or interview? Same as religion or race. Kinda 'Don't ask, don't tell'.

For many Reservists applying for thier first civilian job, Reserve service is the only "work experience" they bring to the table.  If the prospective employer asks about your prior work experience... then what?  Say nothing?  If it's on your resumé you could be seen as lying.

Also, leaving your Reserve service/status off your resumé/application will show large and glaring gaps in your employment history. 

"Mr. Recceguy, you don't show any employment between date X and date Y and again from date M and date N.  What were you doing during that period?"

 

[geo]

"Mr. Recceguy, you don't show any employment between date X and date Y and again from date M and date N.  What were you doing during that period?"

Standing around, sitting around, visiting interesting places and people.

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... and I don't want to kill you

 

[Dog]

Here is the link to the Ontario Reserve job Protection bill, I imagine they will be similar across the country:

http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/en/isysquery/9baa712e-9b09-42a7-bb00-0725724ddbdf/1/frame/?search=browseStatutes&context=

 

[daftandbarmy]

For many Reservists applying for thier first civilian job, Reserve service is the only "work experience" they bring to the table.  If the prospective employer asks about your prior work experience... then what?  Say nothing?   If it's on your resumé you could be seen as lying.

Also, leaving your Reserve service/status off your resumé/application will show large and glaring gaps in your employment history. 

"Mr. Recceguy, you don't show any employment between date X and date Y and again from date M and date N.  What were you doing during that period?"

BeEmployers are so desperate for workers right now it won't matter. And my expereince has been that anyone with even a hint of a military background is head and shoulders above many of their peers, especially in the 18 - 25 year old age bracket. The new demographic is pretty tough to deal with as an employer (see? scars), and anyone with an experience with the military work ethic will do well IMHO.

 

[BDTyre]

My employer has a very craftily written job protection.  They will grant me a leave of absence provided I can get a letter from my CO.  But they can just as easily deny one; their decision is based on factors such as position, seniority, prior attendance, and requirement for the employee to be there.

The letter from the CO also has to be worded in such a way that it is clear whatever I'm doing that takes me away from my employer is "required."  This is fine for basic and trades courses, where I am required to do them, but what about other courses that I don't need but should take, such as a 404s, IPSWQ or a PLQ.  And what about an overseas deployment?

I suppose, if worse comes to worse, and my employer wouldn't let me go on a qualifications course, or a deployment, I could always complain about how they're stifiling a personal goal and preventing me the opportunity for advancement.  Thankfully I'm not the only reservist in my company -there is at least one other- but I'm probably the only one in a management position, hence a position requiring a certain commitment -and that commitment has been called in to question at least once.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

BeEmployers are so desperate for workers right now it won't matter. And my expereince has been that anyone with even a hint of a military background is head and shoulders above many of their peers, especially in the 18 - 25 year old age bracket. The new demographic is pretty tough to deal with as an employer (see? scars), and anyone with an experience with the military work ethic will do well IMHO.

I agree that the current labour shortage can help you get hired, but it can also limit you from being released for long term exercises, plus don't bet on the current labour shortage to last much longer, when the economy downturns the situation will reverse as employees will not be willing to risk a good paying job for a part time one.

 

[geo]

Heh
Break a leg in a skiing accident & receive sympathy from all your work mates & management
Break a leg on a training weekend & receive grief from management......

 

[Hawk]

This is going to end up much like the situation many people in my generation (boomers) are in. I'm fully trained and have 20+ years experience in my profession, industrial purchasing.  My resume looks excellent - then the prospective employer finds out I'm 1) female, and 2) over 50. Good luck! I know very well why I'm turned down, but its always stated as they changed their mind and reorganized the department, or they found someone else with some obscure qualification I don't have. You can't scream discrimination - you just don't have a leg to stand on.


Hawk

 

[NL_engineer]

Camping, hiking, ATVing, hunting & long quiet walks in the moonlight ;D

:rofl:

BeEmployers are so desperate for workers right now it won't matter. And my expereince has been that anyone with even a hint of a military background is head and shoulders above many of their peers, especially in the 18 - 25 year old age bracket. The new demographic is pretty tough to deal with as an employer (see? scars), and anyone with an experience with the military work ethic will do well IMHO.

I have met a number of employees like that; most try to hire reservists, one of those has said "because they show up on time and work hard"

The the government dose anything to make it an incentive, it should be tax breaks, as it directly contributes to the bottom line.  On the plus side for government, they get the money back in personal income tax  : (said tax break = increased profit which leads to bonuses to managers (all taxable) and increased dividends to shareholders (also taxable)

just my 2 cents