Reservists Job Protection Superthread

[Donut]

CFLC has a similar program, I've just never seen it reported outside of DND publications.  A PAFF issue, among many which I understand are about to adressed.

Paraphrasing another site user, there is a duty incumbent on business in this country to allow for the defence of this country.  This duty has been neglected, as has most of Canada's military commitment in recent years, some could say century.  Those companies that do not support reserve force employment need to be seen as delinquent, as shirking a duty.  Does DND have an obligation to make it reasonable for companies to meet this duty? absolutely, but it needs to be seen in that light, not in the "pay them off" terms. 

DF

 

[c4th]

Apologies for the tangent, but until we get a better grip on Reserve administration the timeline to deploy Reservists will remain extraordinarily long and we will continue to ask employers to accommodate our shortcomings.

Admin is only a small piece of the puzzle.  DAGing any soldier and kitting them for operation can be done in a week.  Prepare yourself for longer timelines as we move into more complicated deployments that require a higher level of training.  If the Reg Force is doing 8 or 9  months (compared to 3 months 10 years ago) the PRes augmentees are not likely to be able to deploy in a shorter time span.

 

[c4th]

Paraphrasing another site user, there is a duty incumbent on business in this country to allow for the defence of this country.

In fact some might say that it is an incumbent duty of citizens to allow for the defence of the country. Since there is no thread arguing conscription to increase the 0.002% of the population that is currently serving in the CF one has to assume that voting and paying taxes is an adequate contribution to Defence.

The first and probably last duty of business in this country is to make money.  This in turn generates tax revenue and may even employ more residents who will then pay taxes and spend money thus repeating the cycle.  This is economics and this makes Canada a going concern.  No one should need reminding that is is taxes that pays for National Defence and foreign policy, not reservists.

Realistically though, besides a few journalists hawking letters and a few reservists who haven't found themselves yet, who really cares?  Of the literally hundreds of reservists I have known who have deployed, I think I can name one who was actually fired for training instead of going to work, and one other who deployed and lost a position at his work that was going bankrupt anyway.  The vast majority are students, unemployed, or were employed at jobs they could not care less about returning to.  It is truly the minority that actually takes a leave of absence from their place of work.

Do reservists miss out on training because of civilian employment?  Sure, lots in pretty much the same way that reg force soldiers miss out on training to fill taskings, and miss out on tours due to postings.  For the reservist it is called choices. For the Regs it is called exigencies of service.

Don't count on the government or business to solve the problems of a few reservists who cannot accept the consequences of their choices.  In short, from a military viewpoint, legislation will have no effect on who, how many, or how we deploy.

 

[big bad john]

I thought that this article was pertinent on the subject.

http://feeds.msn.com/content/framesite/frmredir.asp?m=http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/canada/article.jsp?content=20060814_132006_132006

August 17, 2006

That's gratitude

Reservists are serving their country -- and risking their livelihoods

CHARLIE GILLIS

When the call came through, Paul, a master corporal in the Canadian Forces reserves, was coated in camouflage, soot and a sheen of sweat. But the 35-year-old soldier from Toronto figured the message must be urgent, so he rushed to find out what was wrong. "It was my office telling me I had made a mistake filling out the forms for my leave," he recalls, noting that he was miles away from the nearest land line -- a pay phone at the base offices -- at the time. After weeks of trudging through the brush near Meaford, Ont., as part of his training for active duty, he was near the end of his tether with an employer who failed to grasp what he was trying to accomplish in the reserves. "I was totally exhausted, I hadn't eaten in two days," he says. "Here they were calling me over some stupid problem with paperwork. It definitely was not cool."

It would get worse. Paul -- who asked that his identity be withheld because he was speaking without the army's approval -- lost three days of pay because of the paperwork foul-up. Then, in a decisive exchange upon his return, the head of the Toronto finance company where he worked cornered him for a face-to-face conversation. "You were one of our best employees," the executive said ruefully, "until you got into this silly army thing." 

 



Paul quit the firm three weeks later -- "I knew at that moment that I couldn't stay" -- and found another job. But stories like his are playing out with increasing frequency throughout Canada's army reserves, as the so-called "weekend warriors" who back up the country's 62,000-strong force of regulars are drawn into the all too real world of gun battles, ambushes and roadside bombs. Fully 300 soldiers in Afghanistan, or 13 per cent of Canada's 2,300-strong contingent, are part-time troops who do their training on weekends, holidays or leaves granted by their employers. With just 2,700 more regulars ready at any given time to go on rotation, the forces are leaning ever harder on the 23,000 civilian soldiers back home to fill out missions, or to plug gaps left by departing regulars.

That means they are leaning on the firms and institutions that employ reservists. To accept a six-month deployment like Afghanistan, a reserve soldier must spend another six months training, bringing his entire commitment to a full year. And while there's nothing compelling part-timers to serve in danger zones, most join with the idea of participating in some sort of mission. As one soldier interviewed by Maclean's put it: "If you don't want to see a little bit of action, then really, why sign up?"

The result, inevitably, is friction between reservists and their bosses. Leo Desmarteau, the executive director of the Canadian Forces Liaison Centre, a joint civilian-military body which works to mediate these differences, estimates the number of soldiers seeking assistance in workplace disputes has increased from roughly 30 per year before the mission in Afghanistan to more than 100 last year. Most cases are easily settled, he says. "We encourage reservists to have a clean, clear break from their work situation before they go on tour." But some are not.

One officer interviewed for this story returned from a tour in Afghanistan in early 2004 to find that his job with the Ontario government had been given away. He had tried to extend his leave by six months to complete his mission, a highly touted initiative which involved civilian outreach in the villages around Kabul. But a manager back home who was eager to promote another employee denied him, and filled the job in his absence. By the time he got back to pursue the matter, his union membership had lapsed and -- as if to add insult -- the army itself decided it no longer required his services.

With no medical or dental benefits, and no one to help him fight for his job, the soldier (who also sought anonymity) sank into despair. "I'd always thought the military was supposed to be a kind of large family," he says. "Now I felt like I was being cut adrift." Only after a colonel who had known him in Afghanistan intervened did he get another assignment with the military, and even then the whole experience left him jaded. "I know some guys come home to worse troubles, like post-traumatic stress," he says. "But to come back and be treated like a piece of crap is pretty traumatic, in itself."

Not surprisingly, the issue has become a hot one in the military community, especially since the death in Aghanistan of Cpl. Anthony Boneca, a reservist from Thunder Bay, Ont. Soldiers and family members, conversing on unofficial military websites like Army.ca, say Boneca's passing illustrates the risk part-timers are undertaking for their country at great cost to themselves. Others have called on Ottawa to act on the findings of a 1995 commission urging legislation that would force employers to keep jobs open for those on training or tour. "My husband is having a tough time right now trying to get leave from his job for training," wrote one woman in late May. "He actually works for the feds and even though they have regulations in place to help employees who are also reservists, they seem disinclined to go by them."

Many critics point to measures taken in other countries, saying Canada lags badly. The U.S. has laws forcing employers to protect the reservists, they noted, while Britain compensates employers whose workers volunteer for active duty. Australia, too, provides more than $800 per week to companies who release workers for military service, and bans discrimination in the workplace against reservists. Canada, by contrast, has done little more than pass legislation guaranteeing jobs in the event reservists are called for compulsory service. Considering that hasn't happened since the Second World War, it is something less than a grand gesture. "To my thinking, we have a moral obligation to these guys," says Bob Bergen, a research fellow with the Calgary-based Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute. "We can do better."

So what route should Canada, with its limited means and wholly voluntary reserve force, take? Desmarteau warns that U.S.-style laws, which forbid employers from firing reservists, lead to workplace discrimination, pushing those soldiers off hiring lists and limiting their chances for promotion. "We've seen this in other countries," he says. "It's a very real problem." Other critics argue that compensating employers would put extraordinary and possibly unnecessary strain on the public purse. These are the choices now facing Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor, who has committed to expanding the reserves by 10,000 troops -- and who publicly agrees with the need to protect their civilian jobs.

Officials in O'Connor's office say the minister has asked his department for advice on the issue, and hopes to bring forward a new approach later in the year. "The ultimate goal," says a spokesman, "is to help with the recruitment and retention of reservists in the Canadian Forces." Whether that's soon enough to help soldiers like Paul -- already working up the nerve to ask his new bosses for time off -- remains to be seen. Canadians may consider the lives of their soldiers precious beyond value. Those soldiers' livelihoods appear to be another matter.

To comment, email [email protected]

 

[John Nayduk]

With more reservists wounded on OP MEDUSSA, I hope that this issue won't be forgotten.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yesterday on the News (Global I think) they showed a piece talking about how reservist come back from a tour to no job and they showed an exercise back east where the military took Employers out to watch the reservist in action and the interviews with the Employers showed they were very impressed with the dedication of the soldiers.

All good, I think it’s time for a private members bill promoting some sort of financial incentive to hiring and supporting reservists. Even the NDP would be hard pressed to vote against such a bill and the impact to the Government would be minimal and could help defray the costs of supporting a reservist.

 

[GAP]

Wouldn't something like this be nice....

Starbucks’ Military Employees Get Special Blend of Support
By Samantha L. Quigley American Forces Press Service
http://www.defenselink.mil/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=733

WASHINGTON, Sept. 7, 2006 – Starbucks didn’t just wish then-Army Capt. Matt Parkinson well when he was activated to serve in Iraq as part of the Washington National Guard.
Instead, the company went above and beyond what the federal law requires employers do for activated reserve-component personnel, Parkinson said. The company made up the difference between his civilian and military pay and maintained his benefits while he was activated, between November 2003 and February 2005.

He said his supervisors and friends within the company offered him any support he needed, whether it was personal or job related.
More on link

 

[big bad john]

http://www.thewhig.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=216509&catname=Local+News&classif=

'Peace of mind'; Senator Segal aims to protect reservists' jobs

Brock Harrison
Local News - Wednesday, October 04, 2006 @ 07:00

They've been called Weekend Warriors, and Senator Hugh Segal wants to make sure they've still got a job during the week if they go to war.

The Kingston Conservative senator is working to provide a measure of job security and peace of mind to Canadian Forces reservists who want to volunteer their services overseas, but are held back by concerns about keeping their civilian jobs.

"Canada has yet to provide even the peace of mind for these men and women serving in Afghanistan, Bosnia, or elsewhere, that their jobs, their livelihoods and their ability to provide for themselves and their families will be intact upon their return home," Segal said in the Senate last week.

Employers who refuse to return a military reservist to his or her job upon returning from a tour of duty would be breaking the law, if Segal gets his way.

Segal is calling for his colleagues' support in urging the Canadian government to reconsider a section of the Public Safety Act that was left out of the bill when it was adopted into law in 2004.

The section, which would amend the National Defence Act, obliges employers to hold the civilian jobs of reservists who are called to duty in an emergency, an instance that hasn't occurred since the Second World War.


It was left off the bill at the time because it would have required extensive consultation with the provinces since job security is under their jurisdiction.

But Segal wants to go a step further. This time, he's asking that all reservists who serve on deployment be protected - those who are called to and those who volunteer.

According to Segal, reservists are often faced with a troubling dilemma when contemplating whether to volunteer their much-needed skills with the Canadian Forces.

"Do I serve my country or do I step back and not risk my current employment?" Segal said. "Unfortunately, some employers, including government employers, are less than enthusiastic about their employees' requests for unpaid leaves for training or overseas service purposes."

In Afghanistan, 13 per cent of Canada's 2,300-member contingent are reservists who volunteered their services, leaving their civilian lives, and jobs, behind.

Maj. Richard Gower, spokesman for the Canadian Forces Liaison Council, a military agency that advocates job security and protection for reservists, says reliance on reserves is on the rise with 23,000 able soldiers ready for action.

"It's becoming more and more evident that there will be a greater call," Gower says.

With that greater demand comes the expectation that problems with civilian jobs will increase. Gower says the agency deals with about 100 such cases a year.

"At this point, indications are that because reservists are volunteering in larger numbers, the numbers of cases we have will go up," he said.

The situation isn't unique to Canada, Gower added. Most NATO countries, including the United States, Britain and Australia are relying increasingly on reserve soldiers.

"Reservists have become an integral part of international operations these days," Gower said.

Canadian Forces have operated under a "total force" policy in 1987, under which reservists are trained to the level of their regular force counterparts.

This means civilians who sign up as reservists must complete six months of training to be considered on par with regular force troops. Couple that with a typical six-month tour of duty, and reserves are looking at a year of unpaid leave from their jobs.

Critics of the legislation say it opens the door to compulsory service and could make reservists unpopular in the workforce. That is, employers would be reluctant to hire civilian soldiers knowing they would be left with a staffing gap if the soldier chooses military duty.

"There is an argument that maybe soldiers wouldn't get hired because they would leave, but there was a time when women of child-bearing age weren't [hired] either," said Rosemarie Brisson, a policy adviser for Segal. "Now we have maternity leave."

CFB Kingston's reserve unit, the Princess of Wales' Own Regiment, has a number of its soldiers working as police officers, teachers and in other civilian jobs, says spokesman Lt. Steve Dieter.

He says employers have been "very supportive" of soldiers who request leaves for training purposes.

"It's not the same as going on deployment but it still shows employers recognize that the military part of a person's life is just as important as the civilian part," Dieter said.

The liaison council has instituted an annual awards program that recognizes Canada's most reserve-friendly companies.

Windsor's Daimler Chrysler was named the most supportive company in Ontario in 2005.

"It's the right thing to do," said Daimler spokesman Ed Saenz. "These people are making great sacrifices to protect our freedoms, and they deserve a level of accommodation for that."

[email protected]

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Well, I say its about time.

Now let's see if it happens.

So, about the "employer's won't hire Reservists" stuff...wouldn't that be a form of discrimination?

Question # 3 on Application Form for "Company X".

~ Do you now, or ever plan to, serve the CF in the Primary/Communications/Naval/Air Force Reserves?~

:

Good article though, atleast the issue is making some noise. 

 

[The_Falcon]

Well, I say its about time.

Now let's see if it happens.

So, about the "employer's won't hire Reservists" stuff...wouldn't that be a form of discrimination?

Question # 3 on Application Form for "Company X".

~ Do you now, or ever plan to, serve the CF in the Primary/Communications/Naval/Air Force Reserves?~

:

Good article though, atleast the issue is making some noise.   

Technically yes its discrimination.  It happened to me, in a job interview I said I was a reservist, and asked if there were any policies in place regarding the reserves.  I was told I would have to leave the reserves to be considered for the job.

 

[Journeyman]

I was told I would have to leave the reserves to be considered for the job.

Just curiousity, (if you don't mind info sharing), but what sort of job where you applying for?

 

[Haggis]

It's always useful to do some research on the company you're applying to.  That way you can tailor your resumé by inserting/deleting military experience/qualifications/references as required by the politics of the prospective employer.

I tell my troops to do this before they use me as a reference.  Usually I will only act as a reference if the soldier is applying for police/security/government type jobs.

 

[The_Falcon]

Just curiousity, (if you don't mind info sharing), but what sort of job where you applying for?

Communications Officer in the Toronto Eaton Centre's security dept.

 

[Journeyman]

Hmm...I thought Mr (Timothy?) Eaton was a big fan of CF Reserves. I dunno - - not my strong suit.

 

[The_Falcon]

Well the Eatons Centre is managed by Cadillac Fairview, and it was thier security.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It would be nice if the government stepped up to the plate and gave them the same treatment as they do for visable minorities.

 

[keaner]

I always put my military background/experience/training on my resume when applying, but I wouldn't reccommend showing any current affiliations. Civvies just don't get it...

 

[Bobbyoreo]

I hope this happens. I've had to choose a few times now and the forces always win!!!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Where is the manditory "If you want to go on tour/work class C why not just join the regs!"?

Something like this job protection would be great for both reserves AND the regular force. With something like this in place, 'checked out' reservists with professional jobs would be able to augment the regs much easier thus increasing the over all quality of guys showing up for tours.

I've been turned down for jobs because of being in the reserves (and i've also GOT jobs simply for being in the reserves).

I've heard people suggest just not mentioning your in the reserves however many reservists who put a good amount of class B time in ONLY have the reserves as work experience.  It's a catch 22.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

I have been fortunate to have a boss who has given me a week off here and there for training, and has allowed me to leave early Friday nights to attend weekend training exercises, but an overseas tour would be too much and I would be let go.

Here's hoping I guess...