Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

[Teager]

Wookilar i'd hang on to the priority hire card a little while longer yet. Even with that article who knows how long it will take to implement any changes they propose. If you wait until this job freeze is over then i'd jump on the priority hire list as you will have much better chances.

As for the H2H program in the lengthy e-mail that was recieved it notes that most members are still serving members so the majoity of the members in the program could be just curious and want to see whats being offered or have a plan B ready. The problem I see with the H2H program is that its aimed at CF members who aren't medicaly releasing. Chances are if your medicaly releasing or suffered some sort of severe injury the chances of even doing a trade are pretty slim.

I'll be releasing medically and I know that because of my MEL's the CF and SISIP will not support going into a trade. I've still signed up for the site and the majority of the jobs they have posted for me are trades that I did not select or are on the other side of the country.

To me its getting ridicoulous with the amount of different programs to help with jobs we have the prioirty hire, the H2H, Canada Company, and VAC job bank/assist. They need to create one big job bank and job assistance program in one place. The problem with that is that the majority of these programs run off of donations or are set up privately. Ultimately it is the government that is suppose to take care of us once injured but it seems that private organizations have had to step up and try to help us out.

 

[blacktriangle]

Just got a lengthy email from H2H lol

How they are changing to better respond to what we are looking for, etc etc.

I'm not going to knock it just yet, I have registered and filled everything out afterall, but the number of successful applicants is a bit disheartening.

I would like to know how many people are currently in training-type positions? Does the 18 count those that are in apprentice positions?

I got it too. To be honest, I am very motivated to move onto a second career. My hearing is on the verge of being shot and I don't want to gamble my mortgage etc on the idea of making it to retirement in the CF. I signed up to H2H but don't really see any results coming from it. I put down that I was willing to move anywhere if a solid opportunity came my way.

For those already facing medical release, I do feel for you. My physical abilities and youth are still with me, and I'm not facing release...yet. Just want a Plan B.

 

[DVC185]

From the quoted article:

$1.65 million in standup costs later, and 18 jobs filled.  Outstanding.

:sarcasm:

Knowing one of the principals of that prgram, I am surprised that they even made it to 18 positions.

 

[blacktriangle]

Knowing one of the principals of that prgram, I am surprised that they even made it to 18 positions.

When I see comments like that from a CWO, I feel even less confident!!

It looks like my Plan "B" had better have a Plan "C".

 

[McG]

A problem with priority hiring is that departments can choose to consider only the priority hires who are from the department.  This always excludes service personnel.  Even DND, in the recent past, had directed that the only hires would be DND priority hires (ie. only DND public servants) - and I watched positions sit empty as both other department and CF priority hires were rejected.  The ability to put-up barriers such as this needs to be done away with.

Desirably, CF and RCMP priority hires would also be given legislated parity with PS employees affected by work force adjustments.

 

[Wookilar]

I have spoken with the priority hire list guru here and we have no solid new info, but only some educated guessing (otherwise known as "rumours").

There is some investigations ongoing as to how to "legally" fit the medically released priority hire list back into a semblance of working vs the list of "affected" PS employees. It seems that it is a bit of a rats nest of bargaining agreements and trying to feel out the majority of the bargaining units to see how badly they would object.

I can only presume that their objections would be quite ...strong...

The removal of barriers between departments has also been mentioned, but I do not see much political currency for movement there at all.

 

[McG]

If priority higher of medically released service personnel is a priority for politicians, then the barriers to bureaucrats can be overcome.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Here's the latest - pri hiring for wounded vets is apparently (back?) on.  This, from the VAC Info-machine ....

The Honourable Julian Fantino, Minister of Veterans Affairs, today announced new legislation intended to provide medically released Veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) who were injured in service to Canada the top level of priority consideration for job openings in the public service. The announcement was made at a news conference held at the 5th Annual Tribute Dinner hosted by True Patriot Love Foundation.

“Medically released Veterans have made a significant sacrifice in their service to Canada and they have the skills, training and experience that make them ideal candidates to continue strengthening Canada through public service,” said Minister Fantino. “I am delighted to confirm that the Harper Government is getting Canada’s priorities right and leading by example by improving employment opportunities for Veterans.”

Every year, many military members transition out of the Canadian Armed Forces. For those Canadian Armed Forces members who cannot deploy and meet the demands of operations, finding meaningful employment is a key factor in making a successful transition to civilian life.

“On behalf of the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces, I welcome this additional support for Regular Force and Reserve Force members who have sacrificed so much for our country,” said the Honourable Rob Nicholson, Minister of National Defence. “The goal of Canadian Armed Forces support and care is to retain as many members as possible. However, this change will provide meaningful employment options to members of the Canadian Armed Forces who are medically released.”

When a position becomes open in the public service, different groups have different levels of access. In spring 2014, when the legislation is expected to come into force, those Regular Force and Reserve Force members who are medically released from the Canadian Armed Forces for service-related reasons will receive a statutory priority for a period of five years. This will provide Veterans with the highest level of priority consideration for public service positions, above all other groups, in recognition of their sacrifices and service to Canada.

Those full-time Regular or Reserve Force Veterans who release for non-service-related medical reasons will continue to receive their existing level of priority. However, the duration of their access will be increased from two to five years, allowing them a longer period of priority entitlement for positions.

Veterans who will make use of this measure must qualify for the positions they are seeking. The changes will apply to medically released Veterans who received a priority entitlement on or after April 1, 2012 ....

 

[Robert0288]

More Via the National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/11/07/injured-canadian-forces-members-could-be-front-of-the-line-for-other-public-service-jobs/)

Injured Canadian Forces members could be front of the line for other public service jobs

OTTAWA — Veterans injured in the line of duty could soon find themselves at the front of the line when it comes to federal job openings thanks to a proposal unveiled by the Conservative government Thursday.

But the plan has received a tepid response from opposition critics and some veterans advocates who fear it will help only a small number of people.

Canadian Forces members discharged from the military because of injuries have already enjoyed the same preferential treatment as visible minorities and people with disabilities when it comes to applying for federal jobs.

In other words, any applicant who is an injured vet, visible minority or who has a disability, and is qualified for the job they have applied for must be hired before anyone else who meets the same job qualifications.

But legislation introduced by the Conservative government in the House of Commons Thursday would bump soldiers, sailors and air personnel who were injured in the line of duty even higher than those other applicants.

The priority treatment would apply for five years after the veteran is released from the military, instead of the current two.

Veterans who were released for medical reasons that were not related to their service will remain at the lower level, but also see their special treatment extended from two to five years.

The change will apply retroactively to any Forces members who receive a medical discharge and qualified for the priority treatment on or after April 1, 2012.

In an interview, Veterans Affairs Minister Julian Fantino said the federal government is already doing a lot to help veterans, including injured vets, but “this one, I feel, is something that is really going to help.”

“If you talk about someone coming out of the military who is injured or have other medical conditions as a result of their service to country, then I think it’s an obligation,” he said of the government providing assistance. “And I see this as a natural thing for us to do. We could have maybe done it earlier. I don’t know, I can’t speak to that. But we’re doing it now and that’s what counts.”

Opposition critics and veterans advocates said they welcomed any initiative that sought to help those who had been injured in the line of duty, and that trying to find them other jobs in the federal government made sense. But they also predicted problems in how the initiative would work in real life.

Royal Canadian Legion Dominion Secretary Brad White said he has heard numerous reports of injured veterans qualifying for priority treatment but still having no luck finding another job in the federal government.

The problem for many, he said, is that they don’t meet the job criteria.

“Soldiers, sailors and air people coming out of the Canadian Forces don’t always happen to have things like a university degree. They’re not always bilingual. And they don’t tend to sometimes get into the shooting galleries for the jobs because they don’t have those requirements.”

While Fantino acknowledged Veterans Affairs is not perfect and there is always more to be done, he said there were programs in place to help train injured soldiers and veterans and help them transition into civilian life.

A Public Service Commission report tabled in the House of Commons this week said 1,083 military and RCMP members were medically discharged from 2008 to 2013 and qualified for priority hiring benefits under the current system.

Of those, 763 or about 70 per cent, ended up finding another job in the federal government.

“This demonstrates both the commitment of departments and agencies to place these former members, and the fact that these former members have the skills needed in the public service,” the report reads.

However, the CBC reported earlier this year that a total of 8,702 Canadian Forces members had been released over that same period, and it wasn’t clear why only 1,083 qualified for the priority benefit.

To that end, NDP veterans affairs critic Peter Stoffer questioned who would decide whether an injury sustained by a member of the Forces was a result of their job or not.

“That’s a problem we always have with the brass,” he said.

The CBC report also cited documents obtained by Liberal Sen. Percy Downe that found the majority of those who were hired to federal government jobs had ended up back at National Defence or Veterans Affairs Canada as civilian employees.

Liberal veterans affairs critic Jim Karygiannis noted that the Conservative government had ordered the closing of nine Veterans Affairs service centres across the country, which he said meant jobs that might have gone to injured veterans were no longer available.

He also noted the government had capped federal spending and is cutting jobs, including civilian jobs at National Defence.

The PSC report said 95 injured vets saw their priority benefits expire last year, and 98 in 2011.

In fact, less than half of those who qualified for the special treatment last year found jobs, which the report blamed on federal employees who were laid off due to budget cuts being given higher priority.

“So how the hell are you going to hire veterans when you aren’t creating anymore jobs?” Karygiannis asked.

The new change would put vets on the same priority level as federal employees who have recently been laid off. But Karygiannis said that’s little comfort.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The reality is that most of the PS is reeling from the WFA. The whole purpose of which is to reduce the number of Public Servants. We are struggling to find a place for one of our better employee who was surplussed due to no fault of their own. Pretty much every department is in damage control mode and trying to look after their own. Had they proposed this idea under normal times, then you would see more success, but these are not normal times. Frankly I am desperate for another officer and admin staff and there is no way they will allow us to hire them.

 

[McG]

This new legislation is the right thing to do, but of itself it is not the solution to transition of wounded veterans.

It must also ensure departments are not allowed to constrain selection to just their own priorety hires or it will achieve nothing.  Currently, each department has the option to decide it will only take from its own priorety hires and exclude all departments.

 

[Nemo888]

The old legislation was the right thing to do as well. It made for many stories in the media, tons of shiny pamphlets delivered directly to my door and sagely advice from VAC representatives about a PS job being a good replacement for a lifetime pension.  Like Helmets to Hardhats it has produced more media attention than actual help. This is not a bureaucratic oversight. It is what they are designed to do.

Call me a pessimist but I think they need some good PR and are recycling a feel good story timed so that it's failure can't be seen for years. Preferably after the next election. Like the promises of massively increased funding to veteran's programs while leaving the eligibility requirements completely unchanged. The NVC was a cost saving measure. Fixing the problem will cost money. Shrinking departmental budgets tell the real story.

 

[Northalbertan]

I am a little disallusioned with the helments to hardhats scheme.  I actually contacted them on behalf of a couple of large companies here in the Alberta Oilpatch.  They didn't seem to be interested unless the jobs were union jobs.  Got news for you, unless you are building large facilities and are a member of the pipefitters union etc, not a lot of union jobs in the 'patch.  It doesn't mean the jobs pay any less or come without pensions.  The jobs I was contacting them about had a starting wage of $28/hr plus benefits.  Hundreds of jobs available province wide.

I just don't get why they wouldn't be interested.

NorthAlbertan

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I am a little disallusioned with the helments to hardhats scheme.  I actually contacted them on behalf of a couple of large companies here in the Alberta Oilpatch.  They didn't seem to be interested unless the jobs were union jobs.  Got news for you, unless you are building large facilities and are a member of the pipefitters union etc, not a lot of union jobs in the 'patch.  It doesn't mean the jobs pay any less or come without pensions.  The jobs I was contacting them about had a starting wage of $28/hr plus benefits.  Hundreds of jobs available province wide.

I just don't get why they wouldn't be interested.

NorthAlbertan

What led you to that conclusion?

 

[Jed]

I have to support NorthAlbertan's perceptions. I had contacted them as well and I got the same take away after the telephone conversation.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have to support NorthAlbertan's perceptions. I had contacted them as well and I got the same take away after the telephone conversation.

You're still not saying what led you to that conclusion.

Did they say "We only want union positions?" or did they ask "Are these union positions?"

There is a large difference.

So, again, what did they say, or do, that led you to the conclusion that they only want union spots?

You also must realize, that for some trades, trying to get your apprenticeship without dealing with a union, is a lost cause and perhaps after dealing with this nonsense the program people (H2H) realize that without the union spot, putting someone forward for it would be futile.

Not every job or trade in Canada, involves the oilpatch, as much as some would care to believe. So perhaps the cookie cutter approach being used doesn't fit some particular applications.

 

[Jed]

Recceguy, Sorry I can not recall the details or the nuance of the conversation that resulted in me formulating my personal impression. It was several months ago and not a particularly notable discussion item. In my specific case I was interested in how my business could work with Helmet to Hardhats and it turns out I am far too small of an employer to be involved.

 

[PuckChaser]

Thats terrible. One veteran placed in a job learning skills is one less homeless veteran on the streets. Maybe they only want big companies for nice photo ops?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Thats terrible. One veteran placed in a job learning skills is one less homeless veteran on the streets. Maybe they only want big companies for nice photo ops?

Let's not get all crazy gloom and doom until ALL sides and facts are known.

Perhaps one of you would like to contact them to come here and explain?

Or perhaps it's easier to condemn them without their side of it being known.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some worries from the Veterans Ombudsman on changes to Priority Hiring of vets in the PS:

.... Currently, there are two basic categories in Priority Hiring: Statutory priorities; and Regulatory priorities. Statutory priorities include Public Service employees affected by workforce adjustment. Currently, they have priority over Regulatory priorities, which include Canadian Armed Forces/RCMP members released for medical reasons. However, the changes contained in the proposed legislation mean that Canadian Armed Forces members who are medically released for service-related injuries/illnesses will be raised to the Statutory level, which is the highest priority level in the system. However, those medically released for non-service-related reasons will retain the current Regulatory priority.

.... when the new legislation is enacted, probably early in 2014, it will mean that someone will have to determine whether medical releases are service-related or not. Currently medically releasing members who serve full-time are eligible for priority hiring as a Regulatory priority, regardless of the reason for the medical release. However, under the new legislation, the system will have to adjudicate an individual’s file to determine if the medical release is related to service or not. This could add additional red tape to the release process and potentially delay the ability to access priority hiring upon release.

In addition it will create separate classes of Veterans for federal priority hiring, exactly what we are striving to avoid. I believe that all medically releasing Canadian Armed Forces members should be treated the same way, because there is an inherent service relationship for every Canadian Armed Forces member who is medically released because the individual can no longer serve in uniform. This was a consideration in the design of New Veterans Charter benefits, such as the Rehabilitation Program, which is available to all medically releasing members, regardless of the reason for the medical release. This was done because it is recognized that losing one’s career as the result of a medical condition is unique to service in the military. However, the proposed legislation does not follow this approach. By elevating the priority for service-related medically releases, but not for non-service-related ones, it creates separate classes of Veterans for priority hiring which will add an additional layer of complexity to an already overburdened system ....