Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

[Bigmac]

I really don't understand why the long delays in processing these at DND? I did have to instruct some of my CSC Compensation colleagues how to read the MPRR data. I really find it hard to believe that DND Compensation cannot read MPRRs, so what is the issue? I think 6-8 weeks is a reasonable timeframe for DND but if they can't meet this they should put a bulletin out explaining why?

If your collective agreement is current (ie PA group) send your MPRR to compensation. Follow up with an email to confirm receipt and estimated timeline. If you get nothing after 6-8 weeks follow up with another email. If further delay or no response push the issue higher.

Opinions expressed above are my own. Good luck to all of you!

 

[bridges]

If your collective agreement is current (ie PA group) send your MPRR to compensation. Follow up with an email to confirm receipt and estimated timeline. If you get nothing after 6-8 weeks follow up with another email. If further delay or no response push the issue higher.

Good advice & all done, for my part at least.  Some people working in DND, under a current collective agreement, have gotten their vacation sorted out in as little as 4 weeks, while others in the same sit will apparently take at least twice that.  Maybe it depends on which pay list you belong to.  Or perhaps how complicated your MPRR is - mine involved around 25 separate Class B/C periods, adding up to 5 or 6 consecutive spans >180 days.  So, some basic math is needed - not as straightforward as, say, 1 start & stop date from the Regular Force.  The saga continues! 

All in all, it's not a horrible problem to have, in today's world.  Thanks again for the advice.    :nod:

What I'm still wondering is, they offered a choice of submitting the MPRR or an indication of your pensionable service - but when reservists bought back pension time in Part I of CFSA, that included not only pds >180 days but also shorter ones, and Class A time.  So - will those who submitted the pension data instead of their MPRR end up with more vacation time?

 

[dapaterson]

No.  The policty states:

Any former service in the Canadian Forces for a continuous period of six months or more, either as a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force while on Class B or C service, will be included in the calculation of vacation leave credits. The change is forward-looking and there shall be no recalculation of entitlements for vacation years before April 1, 2012.

Thus, only periods of 6 months or more will be counted.  If all B&C counted, I'd get another 576 days of credit...

 

[bridges]

I saw that in the policy too, which is why I was surprised when they offered CFSA pensionable time as one of the options of things to submit - ? 

 

[Bigmac]

1.  Maybe it depends on which pay list you belong to.  Or perhaps how complicated your MPRR is - mine involved around 25 separate Class B/C periods, adding up to 5 or 6 consecutive spans >180 days.  So, some basic math is needed - not as straightforward as, say, 1 start & stop date from the Regular Force. 

2.  What I'm still wondering is, they offered a choice of submitting the MPRR or an indication of your pensionable service - but when reservists bought back pension time in Part I of CFSA, that included not only pds >180 days but also shorter ones, and Class A time.  So - will those who submitted the pension data instead of their MPRR end up with more vacation time?

1.  The MPRR dates are not complicated to calculate for Reserve time. I've already processed a few with multiple eligible periods of 180 days or more. The number of days are already calculated on the MPRR so no math is required, just reading skills. The MPRR indicates start and stop dates of each Reserve contract and the number of days. We just need to input each period of 180+ days and the HRMS leave service program recalculates the new leave service date. It is not rocket science!

2.    In pension buyback situations all continuous and discontinuous CF service superannuation is bought back and applied toward PS superannuation (Pension). This total time should not be used in the calculation of eligible periods for leave credits. If the pension data provided does not break down each period of CF service then it should not be used to calculate leave credits. The MPRR is the best reference to use and the only one we accept here at CSC.

 

[bridges]

1.  The MPRR dates are not complicated to calculate for Reserve time. I've already processed a few with multiple eligible periods of 180 days or more. The number of days are already calculated on the MPRR so no math is required, just reading skills. The MPRR indicates start and stop dates of each Reserve contract and the number of days. We just need to input each period of 180+ days and the HRMS leave service program recalculates the new leave service date. It is not rocket science!

2.    In pension buyback situations all continuous and discontinuous CF service superannuation is bought back and applied toward PS superannuation (Pension). This total time should not be used in the calculation of eligible periods for leave credits. If the pension data provided does not break down each period of CF service then it should not be used to calculate leave credits. The MPRR is the best reference to use and the only one we accept here at CSC.

Bigmac, thanks for your informed input.  It's been very helpful.

Re. inputting "each period of 180+ days", I only hope they're also including smaller, consecutive pds that add up to 180+.  For example:  at one part in my career, I had six consecutive pds of Class B of 257, 89, 36, 91, 311 and 54 days respectively.  Taken together, they total 838 days - but if the inputters are only looking at individual periods of 180+, then the smaller ones in the middle wouldn't count - which they should, according to the policy. 

I suspect - hope, actually - that this is why mine is taking longer.

 

[dapaterson]

I can attest that

(a) DND's comp folks are counting consecutive periods that make up 180 or more; and

(b) DND's comp folks can be very slow.  Two weeks ago I got my annual Pension statement - dated November 2011.  That sort of delay is not unusual.  At one point my paylist had no compensation advisor for over a year.

 

[bridges]

Nine weeks and counting.  Working for DND, in the NCR, in the PA group (which has a current contract).

Let me know if these regular updates on my particular example get old.  I've already reduced them to biweekly in anticipation of same. 

 

[bridges]

...and one final update:  my vacation balance was revised today, 9 weeks & 1 day after submitting the paperwork.  They likely had a large # to process all at once. 

They mentioned that the "leave service date" was revised (naturally), but this doesn't seem to be visible on the leave self-service application.  Does anyone know if there's a way to look this up on-line?

 

[dapaterson]

Go to the "Print My Leave Record" option; on the record, the leave service date is about 1/2 of the way down the first page.

AFAIK, the date is calculated by totalling the number of days creti you receive, then subtracting that from the date you started with the PS.  Don't try to look at your MPRR for the new date; it isn't there (unless you went directly to the PS without interruption, and all your periods of full-time military service preceded the day you started in the PS without any interruption.

 

[bridges]

Got it - thanks for the help, as always.

On a hunch, I used the website below to calculate the # of days between the new one and the previous one - seems it's around 700 days short of what I'd submitted, which means a wait of almost 2 extra years before the next increase.  So, back to the compensation office.  (sigh...)

http://calendarhome.com/date.shtml

 

[Bigmac]

Congrats on finally getting your leave updated Bridges!  If you think it was not calculated properly then you should contact compensation. Just remember that only continuous periods of 180 days or more count. However, if you had some multiple shorter Class B contracts of continuous time, with no breaks, then they would count if they add up to 180+ days.

 

[bridges]

Thanks, Bigmac.  I've spoken with the compensation folks - it had to do with a pd of mil svc during LWOP fm the PS, which got credited twice; it's sorted out now.  Your help & comments have been much appreciated. 

I'm also helping out a colleague, who was in the Res F for 18 years (most of it full-time), and yet his MPRR doesn't show ANY assignment history other than the transfer to Supp Res (!) - no Class B or C, nothing at all.  So the OR tells me he'll have to request his pers file through an ATI req.  Sounds time-consuming, but he's been out too long to have been eligible for the pension buy-back so that looks like our only option.  Isn't administration fun?  :nod:  It will be worth the effort, though, in this case.  Thanks again.

 

[RavRob]

Well it sure looks like everyone finally has their recognized time back.

Merry Christmas all.

 

[Haggis]

So, having read through all eight pages and surfed the Treasury Board Secertariat's website, some questions remain.

From reply No. 94:

Effective April 1, 2012, any former service in the Canadian Forces for a continuous period of six months or more, either as a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force while on Class B or C service, will be included in the calculation of vacation leave credits. The change is forward-looking and there shall be no recalculation of entitlements for vacation years before April 1, 2012.

Nowhere in this paragraph is there a stated requirement to release from the CF.  "Former service" is service rendered in the past and could be rendered by a serving or released CF member.

and

Q3:  Can an employee of the Public Service who is currently a member of the Reserve Force count their current, or future, full-time service?

A3:  No, an employee cannot earn concurrent vacation credits in both the Public Service and the Canadian Forces.

Given that a significant number of Public Service employees are concurrently members of the Reserve Force, the consideration of part-time Class A service or short-term Class B or C service would unintentionally result in the simultaneous duplication or in the acceleration of the accumulation of vacation credits over the same period of time (i.e. pyramiding of entitlements).

For current or future military service to be considered, a Public Service employee must be on an unpaid leave of absence for such duration that she or he ceases accumulating vacation credits in the Public Service.

As a member of the PS would need to be on LWOP to accumulate such leave credits while on Class B/C service, it would stand to reason that there is, again, no requirement to release to exercise the benefits of this change.

Now, the big question is have there been any cases where a member has been compelled to release from the P Res while on Class A in order to gain this entitlement?

 

[dapaterson]

To my knowledge, no - and I am one of the "long term B turned public servant but stayed class A".  I got my additional leave and continue to serve.

I've also got subordinates who are public servants who have taken LWOP to deploy.  I'll chat with them to confirm that they received their credit for their time served.

 

[Haggis]

That's good to know because, as you astutely noted earlier, the requirement for release from the P Res would be a huge dissatisfier.

I'm looking forward to hearing the outcome of your queries.

 

[Wookilar]

Re: the CBC article on the PSC somehow expanding the Priority Hire List (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/04/27/pol-veterans-affairs-to-expand-program-for-hiring-injured-veterans.html)

Has anyone heard anything else on this? No one else in the MSN seems to have picked it up  : shocking, I know..

I've been planning on waiting a year or two before I put my name on the list, this might change my mind.

Thanks.

Wook

 

[Occam]

From the quoted article:

Helmets to Hardhats — another program launched in September 2012 and designed to help former soldiers find work in trades —has registered 977 veterans and 77 employers and contractors but so far, only 18 jobs have been confirmed filled through the program.

$1.65 million in standup costs later, and 18 jobs filled.  Outstanding.

:sarcasm:

 

[Wookilar]

Just got a lengthy email from H2H lol

How they are changing to better respond to what we are looking for, etc etc.

I'm not going to knock it just yet, I have registered and filled everything out afterall, but the number of successful applicants is a bit disheartening.

I would like to know how many people are currently in training-type positions? Does the 18 count those that are in apprentice positions?