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Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

I have been hearing conflicting reports about the eligibility of CF pers to apply for in-service public sector jobs with the government. I know that there are a tonne more than that shite "Jobs open to the Public" website, and wish to apply for some. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so where I could find further information about it.

cheers
 
muffin said:
Yes this is true - PSAC settled in the Fall and we (PIPSC). After perusing our site - it turns out we are on strike alert (groan) and may be heading to the picket this spring/summer.  (This is all the civi computer staff).

I hope they just settle.

muffin

It's my opinion that it all depends on which union represents certain employees that makes the difference.  Certain unions represent employees who make substantially more than those who belong to PSAC (a generalization that is mostly true).  I always felt that those who make a lot more money than they receive in strike pay will negotiate a settlement or vote for an arbitration hearing if negotiations fail. 

Last I heard, PSAC members were making about $100/day in strike pay during the last strike.  If your daily salary turns out to be, for example, $110/day, then it might be worthwhile to strike for awhile and you won't necessarily go bankrupt when you live paycheque to paycheque.  However, if you make, for example, $200/day and you only receive $100/day in strike pay, then you have a real incentive to avoid going out on strike and either settle or end up in arbitration.

My union, CAPE, since becoming a PS employee, has only settled or gone to arbitration.  Subsequently, my union dues are substantially less than those of PSAC employees because it doesn't need to save for the day when it goes out on strike.
 
Quote,
Last I heard, PSAC members were making about $100/day in strike pay during the last strike.

Delegates at the 2003 PSAC Convention increased strike pay from $35 to $50 per day
http://www.psac-afpc.org/news/publications/update06/vol18_05/18-05-e.pdf

 
These are valid comments. Who in the new government is the one responsible for implementing the program of CF personnel having priority in Public Service jobs, and are they being innundated with queries? Are we getting any feedback, is there anything in the pipeline, other than vague rumors?
 
Bruce is right - strike pay for PSAC is only $50/day ... and it is not received until well after the strike... so people on strike have to live without pay for QUITE a while if they strike for a few weeks.

Begbie,
My union, PIPSC, settled. We will not be striking. We have never planned mass walkout anyways as far as I know - just strategic "work to rule" type striking - hitting where we are needed most etc. In this case you get 65% of your pay tax free or something - though we never got that far so I can't say for sure.

Now as I recall... CAPE represents EC/SI (Customs and Revenue Executives/Social Services) ... and they make SIGNIFICANTLY more than your average AS1 or CR4 (PSAC groups), as do several (though not all) groups within PIPSC. I think a groups willingness to strike also depends on where the majority of it's employees are located. For example, the majority of the CS's are in Ottawa. There is a large number of private sector IT/IS/IM jobs available in that area and that probably affected the vote.

I am not sure how any of our negotiations impact on the CF's pay increases. All I know is that everytime PSAC strikes, the CF gets a raise...lol . I don't know if our unions are considered or not.

That's enougth of a hijack for me lol - this thread was supposed to be about CF members applying for PS jobs haha.

Jobs are still available through government intranet at http://publiservice.gc.ca

Muffin



 
Who's really running the workplace on the bases ,i don't think it's the union.I worked on base at PET when i got out.I applyed but never got called untill my neighbour asked if i was intrested in a job there,i should say.He was military not union plus he did not work for human resourses on base,but i would say he had some connections(coughcough).This man walked out on Fri in uniform returned on Mon in civies same job differint title.Is this fare i don't think it is,was there a competition to see who the best PERSON was.I never found out,should there be fair competition in mil vs civi l think it should be that way.Heres somthing to ponder is it fair to collect a full mil retirement pension then go to work on base fulltime with so many unemployed younger people out there.Regular workers call it double dipping what do you guys think.Also to you union haters untill you worked nonunion you will know why theres unions.Unions have lost alot of there power because of govt. legislation.PBI this could be why your grandad became dissalusioned, when he worked the unions were solid now they have takin to many steps back.Our govt hates unions this is my opinion . As long as the cost of living keeps rising SO SHOULD WAGES unfortunatly big buisness an govt don't like this idea. Look how long it took the military to get a pay hike.                            
 
Heres somthing to ponder is it fair to collect a full mil retirement pension then go to work on base fulltime with so many unemployed younger people out there.

Bubba - the military we are referring to here have to apply for the jobs just like everyone else. They used to be excluded from those eligable to compete and now they are included. They have to test just like everyone else.

I too started working here as a Cpl and am now a Civi... but I had to compete for this job 3 times. (Casual, Term AND Indeterminate).

I know a number of ex military who collect their pensions and work for DND. They joined when they were 17-18 like the majority, and released after 25 years .. they have teenage children, mortgages and college to pay for and cannot manage with just the pension alone.

I have been working here for 8 years now, and the hiring policies have changed at least 3 times I can think of.. they change often in the PS.

The only people who are given a fast track into PS jobs are those who were released medically, and they are just moved to the front of the line. It still does not guarantee them the job.

muffin
 
Muffin i don't disagree with a guy workin and on pension especially since the pensions do not cover the cost of living.IE CPL MCPL SGT pensions arn't that big the higher the rank the better they are.I like the fact that the jobs have opened up to fair compitition.Without unions we would not have things like a safe workplace,pensions,health benefits,weekends,overtime etc etc.Unions do have its share of malingerersjust like every other organization ie military,police,govmt,etc etc.We are alot better off with unions than without.I also think that a soldier who is hurt in the line of duty should go to to the front of the line.
 
Unions destroyed the shipbuilding, steel, and mining industries in Britain in the '60s by pricing the labour out of the market, so my dad packed us up and we came to Canada in '68. We lived in B.C, and watched the unions destroy the lumber and fishing industries by pricing the labour out of the market.  In the '90s, the unions have kicked the guts out of the Canadian auto industry, and the steel industry.  How, you may ask?  Sing along with Kat, now..... by pricing the labour.......falalalala........Anyone seeing a trend here?
 
Got a call three weeks ago from a local CF base.  Have been out for almost 16 months now, and the 3B priority service finally called to let me know that a clerks position for three days a week was open.  Was very pleased to tell the HR staff clerk that a) my qualifications qualified me for a managerial position in HR so I was not interested in a clerk position, and b) I was already working as an HR consultant for triple what the CF was offering me so I really didnt need the offer anyway. 

Went on to a lengthy conversation with the clerk and learned a bit more about how the system worked. 
1) Demonstrated that the system is not very fast.  The emphasis is finding positions for those former service members who have not been able to find employment anywhere since they were released.  In other words, you want another federal job? Tough cookies.  You're better off applying under a seperate screening and hiring system. 
2) Despite a multitude of federal departments across Canada and a consistent level of job turnover, it is curious that the only federal department who had an opening after 16 months was the CF.  (WTF? this is complete BS) Apparently former CF personnel are not popular with non-CF federal departments, who would prefer to have ex-DFO working for DFO, and ex-RCMP working for RCMP, etc.   
3) Despite years of proven and successful managerial skill and experience, you cannot be employed in any managerial role in a federal department unless you have a degree.  This is because the civil service pay grades are tied to the military pay grades, including education requirements.

Sorry to pass on bad news but it keeps reinforcing the message that if you want to get a good job after you release (or get released), your best 3 choices are to start your own business, find work with a friend, or get a degree damn quick. Your degree doesnt have to be important or relevant to any business.  Get yourself a 3 year coaster program and grab a BS in sociology or babylonian pottery.  They dont care what your grade average was or what courses you took, all that matters is that you got a degree, because your degree automatically guarantees that you are intelligent, can manage people, and are able to accomplish tasks.
 
That sucks...there's got to be some way to break this garbage up, but I don't have a clue
 
Lets all sing the non union song with Kat and be workin poor. :crybaby:
 
bubba said:
Lets all sing the non union song with Kat and be workin poor. :crybaby:

Or, blindly follow the union policy of demanding too much money for too little work, to the point where your factory moves to Mexico.  Simple choice really, and one I tried to impress on my son, to little effect; $15/hr for 40 hrs/wk X 52 wks/yr  beats $0/hr any time.  I guess I'd rather be working poor than destitute unemployed.  Hey, here's an idea!  After your mine/factory/whatever relocates offshore because of labour costs, you can come to Alberta where the streets are paved with gold (oh, and the unions are, by and large, under control).  Unions served their purpose in the bad old days of kids in coal mines and the 90 hour work week, but the greed got the better of them.
 
I agree with you, Kat.

My parents are unioun die hards (they are both retired now). Its too bad, when they formed unions back in the day there was blatant abuse of employees.

However here in Ontario  ::) There is a real sh*t deal going on. If a man works in afactory he get paid a lousy $10 an hour and work his freaking tail off. I personally think that unskilled but heavy manual labour should have a regulated minimum of around $15 an hour (lets say minimum wages is what $8 an hour?)
 
It's a crap deal Rick, for sure.  No different than the army though, the higher you go, the less actual PHYSICAL work you do, the better the bank balance come payday.  It's always been cheaper for a company/army to ruin a mans body than work his brain.  Stay in school, kids...
 
Your right out of er Kat with that train of thought,when the unions are gone so is are standard of living.If the non union takes over you can kiss the wages you get now gone,guarenteed..I work alot in ALBTA its to bad the unions  gave up so much, theres alot more than just wages involved here.Theres things like work place safty,ongoing education,continued trades training,does the CLAC,Flint ,LEDCOR,care about that stuff i don't think so.Lets talk about wages union, nonunion theres still a set labour rate per man hour when the job is bid.Do you agree.So why do you want to bow down and let the coy pay as little as possible to you.The unions are organised to negotiate the rate under fair negotiating policies with govourment.Where as all the non union guys get is what the coy wants to give them take it or leave it.The none union coys put more mony in there bank off your work, right on. I work with alot of guys from BC its well known what happened out there once the govt allowed non union to bid on industrial contracts.The clac and its lower standard of tradesmen saved money initially,but there repair rate and injury rate cost the coys a lot more money in the end.The end cost of a job is all that matters on the bottom line.IMHO most people that don't like unions are guys who tried to get in and could not. So to end this reply for now don't take it personnly Kat,im sayin it the way i see it as do you.Its too bad that alot of skilled labour left your province because theres not many left to pass on the tricks of the trade to the young guys maybe thats part of the reason alot of big jobs left BC.
 
bubba said:
Your right out of er Kat with that train of thought,when the unions are gone so is are standard of living.If the non union takes over you can kiss the wages you get now gone,guarenteed..I work alot in ALBTA its to bad the unions  gave up so much, theres alot more than just wages involved here.Theres things like work place safty,ongoing education,continued trades training,does the CLAC,Flint ,LEDCOR,care about that stuff i don't think so.Lets talk about wages union, nonunion theres still a set labour rate per man hour when the job is bid.Do you agree.So why do you want to bow down and let the coy pay as little as possible to you.The unions are organised to negotiate the rate under fair negotiating policies with govourment.Where as all the non union guys get is what the coy wants to give them take it or leave it.The none union coys put more mony in there bank off your work, right on. I work with alot of guys from BC its well known what happened out there once the govt allowed non union to bid on industrial contracts.The clac and its lower standard of tradesmen saved money initially,but there repair rate and injury rate cost the coys a lot more money in the end.The end cost of a job is all that matters on the bottom line.IMHO most people that don't like unions are guys who tried to get in and could not. So to end this reply for now don't take it personnly Kat,im sayin it the way i see it as do you.Its too bad that alot of skilled labour left your province because theres not many left to pass on the tricks of the trade to the young guys maybe thats part of the reason alot of big jobs left BC.

How am I not supposed to take "Your right out of er Kat with that train of thought" personally?  You're right, I've never had a union job, as I was a soldier from the age of 17 to 41.  After that I got a non union job the same day I walked out the main gate for the last time.  I got this job based on a certain expertise I have, and my boss pays me more than a unionized guy would get, as he knows that he can't afford to lose me.  And what killed the BC lumber industry in the '70s was the IWA policy of striking every year or two, holding the entire province for ransom.  I was raised in a mill town on the  west coast, don't lecture me on what caused the crash, I lived it.  To this day I cannot eat salmon, because when the IWA was on strike, which was most of the time, if we didn't fish, we didn't eat.
 
Companies are in business to make profits. Every individual has an opportunity to form a company, and go down the same path. If you think "the man" is sticking it to the little guy, go out and become "the man". It's a free country.

I did belong to a Union once. It confirmed all of my pre-conceived notions about Unions. I am willing to concede that one experience does noy make me an authority. I do know that most of the union guys I went to trade school with (millwright) no longer have their jobs - mines and mills, mostly.

I will also grant that, generally, if a company is treating their employees well, there would be no need, nor desire, to unionize. As someone mentioned, they did serve a purpose, once upon a time.

Besides that, let's debate the issue, and keep it civil...
 
The Bigest problem today is especially in the Trenton and Belleville area is Temp agency allot of factories will hire through these temp agencies at a much cheaper cost but expect the workers to do the same as one of there Full time employees . When I was younger I had this experience working through a temp company making $8 an hour and the factory full timer was making 15 .
          I am currently employed at a call center doing tech support allot people don't think its a good job but my self I think its an excellent  I am making 10.75 an hour with benefits so I am not complaining in this area its good deal for unskilled workers and the company does try its best to make it a decent place to work for . My ultimate goal is join the army in a years time but if for what ever reason I cant than I will probably stay with this company for the rest of my life cheers hope that every one is  having a great weekend
 
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