Yeah its a good debate an i agree lets keep it clean.One thing alot of people don't know is that usually during negotiations the first concession the trade unions give up is its right to strike.Probally because of all the wildKating in the 70's,so no more tying up jobs.There are now conracts involved which mean fines.Imo i think alot of raw material jobs ie strip mining,forestry,fishing,etc left because either the resourse ran out or the damage to the envirement was to costly to repair.So coy goes bankrupt blames manpower and leaves ,leaving the prov to foot the bill for cleanup.Heavy industry from the 70 destroyed are envirement imo.And now with being part of the global community its hard to compete with forien workers who work for pennies and countries that could care a less about the envirement.Anybody watch the national geographic show how ships full of pcbs are scrapped in India.Any way time to get drunk later folks.LOL
Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]
- Thread starter George Wallace
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"....wildKating..."
Very good, I see what you did there....that's hilarious!
Resources ran out?! Never seen a map of BC, I take it. The forestry fell because the labour to produce it cost too much, and it cost too much because the IWA had the government of BC by the wrinklies, not the other way around, full stop.
Very good, I see what you did there....that's hilarious!
Resources ran out?! Never seen a map of BC, I take it. The forestry fell because the labour to produce it cost too much, and it cost too much because the IWA had the government of BC by the wrinklies, not the other way around, full stop.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Well!
I was going to split it if I could find a defined Hijack, but there really isn't one. Unions are involved in this matter. The Civil Service Unions (more than one) are involved and complaining about Ex Service and Reserve Personnel being fast tracked into their jobs. They fear the work ethic of ex-military personnel in their 'work environment'. So there is no hijack to speak of. We are discussing the fact that Unions are involved and that Unions may be the 'ruin of the country'. It seems a natural line to follow and cover in the conversation
I was going to split it if I could find a defined Hijack, but there really isn't one. Unions are involved in this matter. The Civil Service Unions (more than one) are involved and complaining about Ex Service and Reserve Personnel being fast tracked into their jobs. They fear the work ethic of ex-military personnel in their 'work environment'. So there is no hijack to speak of. We are discussing the fact that Unions are involved and that Unions may be the 'ruin of the country'. It seems a natural line to follow and cover in the conversation
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I agree with George, the subjects intertwine but not the pro/anti union thing. :argument:
Lets keep the union talk in the context of the topic......
Lets keep the union talk in the context of the topic......
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More of a tangent than a hijack, but I apologize, won't happen again, just one of my hot buttons...
HI guys i thought i'd pass on my story for your edification. I was a serving member of the Forces (17years ) when i heard of a public service job that was coming up. I went to the Public Service Commision and found out the particulars of the job and filled out an application. I then went to see people who worked at the place i was applying for and found out what i should brush up on & study for the competition. I then competed for the job with written and oral & practical tests against 76 other people many of whom were also servicemen. I won the competition and was offered the job. I then requested my release from the forces and the direct transfer to the Coast Guard of my superannuation. I transfered with all my time in the forces counted towards sick leave, annual leave , vacation time , pensionable time and plus started at the highest pay scale for the position because of accrued seniority. Also because my job was considered was considered essential ,to safety of life, i was not allowed to go on strike even though i was a union member, so i had the best of both worlds. I retired in 2005 but am now back at my old job again ,as a casual employee due to staff shortages so the saga continues.
Cheers Stoney.
Cheers Stoney.
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To get back on topic here
I think this might be related
From what I here there are a few, well quite a few positions for electrical techs @ FMF Cape Scott. Allot of our PO2's and PO1's have been given permission to apply. They are hiring some this year and some next. From what I'm being told out of 30+ applicants 28 are from the fleet. The electricians in the Navy are a small trade. Loosing even 10 to 20+ over the next two years could really change the dynamic and experience level of our techs. So manning will definitely become a concern.
From a purely government stand point it makes sense to allow these kind of transfers from mil to civi. The government may get another 10 to 15 years out of the money they spent training these personnel. So what if the unions don't like it. Its not like they are going to start an anti union movement and undermine the unions efforts to get better pay and stop out sourcing.
I think this might be related
From what I here there are a few, well quite a few positions for electrical techs @ FMF Cape Scott. Allot of our PO2's and PO1's have been given permission to apply. They are hiring some this year and some next. From what I'm being told out of 30+ applicants 28 are from the fleet. The electricians in the Navy are a small trade. Loosing even 10 to 20+ over the next two years could really change the dynamic and experience level of our techs. So manning will definitely become a concern.
From a purely government stand point it makes sense to allow these kind of transfers from mil to civi. The government may get another 10 to 15 years out of the money they spent training these personnel. So what if the unions don't like it. Its not like they are going to start an anti union movement and undermine the unions efforts to get better pay and stop out sourcing.
C
Chewie
Guest
all the power to them in uniform past and present who seek such enployment.the fact of the matter is the unions don't like it and I've seen the response first hand
proof is in the pudding and military members work for their money and noone likes
to be shown up at work. especially a union member
andy
Telecom_Dirt
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Hi
Appears that I got lucky and won a competition for a PS job far and away from the CF. I'll miss most of the life.
I'll be starting in late Jan 2009 after 22+ years in CF.
A plethora of administration is underway and I have lots to think about.
Others in the same situation seem to have opted to draw their pensions and start fresh with PS rather than defer until age 55.
Since the position has an initial pay cut (for me but will be par in a couple of years) it looks like I'll be drawing my pension.
Any comments on the above options and/or how can I find someone savvy to run some numbers?
Appreciate it, immensely.
Cheers
Appears that I got lucky and won a competition for a PS job far and away from the CF. I'll miss most of the life.
I'll be starting in late Jan 2009 after 22+ years in CF.
A plethora of administration is underway and I have lots to think about.
Others in the same situation seem to have opted to draw their pensions and start fresh with PS rather than defer until age 55.
Since the position has an initial pay cut (for me but will be par in a couple of years) it looks like I'll be drawing my pension.
Any comments on the above options and/or how can I find someone savvy to run some numbers?
Appreciate it, immensely.
Cheers
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I must admit, I'm in the same boat. 23 years service, and a PS job on the horizon. I had always thought that there was no other option than to take the CFSA pension on top of the PS paycheck, but I'm hearing different now. It appears that there is the option to roll over the contributions, so long as there is "continuous service". One of my wingers is getting out in a few months, and he showed me this document which I didn't even know existed. It outlines the benefits for CF members appointed to PS positions. It's not an easy read, and I would appreciate it if someone could offer translation services... 
It's slightly too large to attach to the post, so I'll have to post a link - http://rapidshare.com/files/169070035/benefits_guide_former_CF_e.doc.html. If anyone has trouble downloading the document, let me know and I'll e-mail it.
My question is along the same lines - roll over the pension, and continue to pay into it until retirement? Or draw upon the CFSA pension immediately, and pay into the PSSA separately? (and eventually draw upon it if I should last another 20 years... ;D)
It's slightly too large to attach to the post, so I'll have to post a link - http://rapidshare.com/files/169070035/benefits_guide_former_CF_e.doc.html. If anyone has trouble downloading the document, let me know and I'll e-mail it.
My question is along the same lines - roll over the pension, and continue to pay into it until retirement? Or draw upon the CFSA pension immediately, and pay into the PSSA separately? (and eventually draw upon it if I should last another 20 years... ;D)
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The simple answer is: it depends on your situation.
Generally, having the guaranteed pension inclome starting now (and indexed sometime in the future) may be your best option - in the end, you'll be receiving two pensions once you retire from the public service. As well, since you stated the positions you'll be taking pays less than your current rate of pay, having your pension on top of that will make for a cushion.
However, not having all your finances in front of me I can't conclusively state one or the other is better for you. When will you need funds? How much?
Look at it this way: You'll draw your military pension for 20 years, then retire and draw a second pension from the PSSA. If you didn't draw it but rolled it over, what difference would that make to your PSSA pension? Would that increase over the rest of your life be worth more than 20 years of pension already received?
Generally, having the guaranteed pension inclome starting now (and indexed sometime in the future) may be your best option - in the end, you'll be receiving two pensions once you retire from the public service. As well, since you stated the positions you'll be taking pays less than your current rate of pay, having your pension on top of that will make for a cushion.
However, not having all your finances in front of me I can't conclusively state one or the other is better for you. When will you need funds? How much?
Look at it this way: You'll draw your military pension for 20 years, then retire and draw a second pension from the PSSA. If you didn't draw it but rolled it over, what difference would that make to your PSSA pension? Would that increase over the rest of your life be worth more than 20 years of pension already received?
Telecom_Dirt
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Thanks for the Link Occam
"Easy read not" you ain't kidding!
I second the request fro a translator.
These are big decisions and very little background and very little time.
I wonder if DAPaterson can put a Private email address in his profile?
Over
"Easy read not" you ain't kidding!
I second the request fro a translator.
These are big decisions and very little background and very little time.
I wonder if DAPaterson can put a Private email address in his profile?
Over
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I keep my email hidden to avoid spammers (to limited success).
That being said, I'm not a financial adviser. I know enough to be dangerous - and so try to inflict my advice only on myself.
A few other points, though:
1. If you do roll over your pension to the Public Service, you max out at 35 years. If you do not, you can have a 20 year pension from the military, 20 years from the public service (or any combination up to 35 years each).
2. Pension indexing will start earlier if you roll over (unless your release was medical), as you'll accumulate more years of service in a single pension. Weight that against not collecting anything while working for the PS.
3. Do you anticipate a signficant increase (in real dollars) to your earnings in the PS versus your earnings in the military? In that case, the "average of your best five" might make it to your benefit to roll over - if you release at $50K average pay, get a 40% pension, that's $20K per year pension; if you work 15 years in the PS, roll over your military pension, then retire with a 70% pension and average pay of $100K (in today's money), that pension becomes $70K per year, versus 20K plus 30K (assuming you can retire with an unreduced pension after 15 years). Mind you, over that 15 years you would have collected $300K in pension income (less tax).
4. Can you live on your salary alone, and bank your pension? Particularly with options like the tax-free savings acount you may end up money ahead if you do can do this, regardless of other variables. At the very least, your increased income (job + pension) should permit you to save money.
There is somewhere on the Treasury Board site a public service pension calculator; you can input prior service and see what affect it will have.
** EDIT ** Here it is: http://apppen-penapp.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/penavg-penben_prod/cpr-pbc/entree-input.do?lang=en
There are fee for service financial planners, and SISP also offers such services. Look into getting some expert advice - "Some guy on the Internet" doesn't qualify as expert advice - not even if that guy is me
That being said, I'm not a financial adviser. I know enough to be dangerous - and so try to inflict my advice only on myself.
A few other points, though:
1. If you do roll over your pension to the Public Service, you max out at 35 years. If you do not, you can have a 20 year pension from the military, 20 years from the public service (or any combination up to 35 years each).
2. Pension indexing will start earlier if you roll over (unless your release was medical), as you'll accumulate more years of service in a single pension. Weight that against not collecting anything while working for the PS.
3. Do you anticipate a signficant increase (in real dollars) to your earnings in the PS versus your earnings in the military? In that case, the "average of your best five" might make it to your benefit to roll over - if you release at $50K average pay, get a 40% pension, that's $20K per year pension; if you work 15 years in the PS, roll over your military pension, then retire with a 70% pension and average pay of $100K (in today's money), that pension becomes $70K per year, versus 20K plus 30K (assuming you can retire with an unreduced pension after 15 years). Mind you, over that 15 years you would have collected $300K in pension income (less tax).
4. Can you live on your salary alone, and bank your pension? Particularly with options like the tax-free savings acount you may end up money ahead if you do can do this, regardless of other variables. At the very least, your increased income (job + pension) should permit you to save money.
There is somewhere on the Treasury Board site a public service pension calculator; you can input prior service and see what affect it will have.
** EDIT ** Here it is: http://apppen-penapp.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/penavg-penben_prod/cpr-pbc/entree-input.do?lang=en
There are fee for service financial planners, and SISP also offers such services. Look into getting some expert advice - "Some guy on the Internet" doesn't qualify as expert advice - not even if that guy is me
Just a general 'broad view' of things: By taking the 'double dip' now, that is a pension and a paycheck: you will have a lot of individual and emmediate freedom of choice, you can invest the extra, increase your standard of living, take that long far away trip once a year and generally have an improved quality of life from January of this year forward: and have the flexibility to either stuff up an RRSP full of money, or spend more here and there, or a good mix: including paying down debt/mortgage so much faster over time.
The opposite choice of that is adding more and more to the pension that you may or not be hit by a bus between now and recieving, while not having the flexibility to alter your personal usage of the extra monies any time you decide to.
I suppose if your undiciplined the latter option might be best: but if your retireing from the army: pretty sure you have some discipline built in.
The opposite choice of that is adding more and more to the pension that you may or not be hit by a bus between now and recieving, while not having the flexibility to alter your personal usage of the extra monies any time you decide to.
I suppose if your undiciplined the latter option might be best: but if your retireing from the army: pretty sure you have some discipline built in.
A few other points to ponder.
I transfered directly from the Forces to PS and therefor they credited me with my time served towards seniorty therefor I started at the top of the ps pay scale for position instead of at the bottom giving me a higher salary than expected. They also credited me with time served in sick leave credits so i started with tons of sick leave available. They also credited me with time served towards vacation time which gave me 6 weeks vacation a year. If you draw your pension + have a PS salary you will be put into a much higher income tax bracket and your tax rate will be maxed out. Remember that also if you carry over your pension it will only go up every year as your pension is based on your best 5 years which means that in 15 years your pension will be way higher as your salary + any promotions will drive it up. In any case remember when you turn 65 as things stand now a lot of it will be clawed back as you are only allowed to draw up to a certain amount. They just reduced my pension 768.00 a month when i turned 65 in Aug. So they get you one way or another.
Cheers
I transfered directly from the Forces to PS and therefor they credited me with my time served towards seniorty therefor I started at the top of the ps pay scale for position instead of at the bottom giving me a higher salary than expected. They also credited me with time served in sick leave credits so i started with tons of sick leave available. They also credited me with time served towards vacation time which gave me 6 weeks vacation a year. If you draw your pension + have a PS salary you will be put into a much higher income tax bracket and your tax rate will be maxed out. Remember that also if you carry over your pension it will only go up every year as your pension is based on your best 5 years which means that in 15 years your pension will be way higher as your salary + any promotions will drive it up. In any case remember when you turn 65 as things stand now a lot of it will be clawed back as you are only allowed to draw up to a certain amount. They just reduced my pension 768.00 a month when i turned 65 in Aug. So they get you one way or another.
Cheers
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Stoney, don't you just love the "claw back" I am reaching my 20 yrs this year and I am starting to look into the options that may be available to me with regards to pension/employment. If you don't mind me asking was the amount that you received from CPP any where close to the amount of claw back.
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You can elect to take your CPP early or late, which will decrease or increase the amount, so the impact of the elimination of the bridge benefit at 65 will vary depending on when you start to draw CPP. If you're healthy with a family history of living long, and don't need the money, delay taking it for a few years and it will increase significantly.
All these issues are discussed at SCAN seminars.
All these issues are discussed at SCAN seminars.
No the amount received in Old Age Pension didn't match the clawback. Clawback was 768 and old age pension 510 but with drop in income + less deductions and lower tax rate it wasn't a huge drop in income but still it did go down in the vicinity of 100 bucks which is nothing to laugh at when your on a fixed income. Good thing i'd bought rrsp's & invested my severance & seperation packages.
Cheers
Cheers
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