RMC Class of 2010

[tomahawk6]

Interesting article about the class of 2010 at RMC that is just starting their military careers. The future looks bright not only for the new Cadets but for the CF as well.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com//servlet/story/LAC.20060916.COVER16/TPStory/Comment/?pageRequested=all

The 19-year-old was a regular "civvy U hooligan" last year. But he found studying in his hometown of Kamloops, B.C., too distracting -- and he loathed the idea of a desk job: "Most of my friends are in science programs, they want to be doctors and stuff. That doesn't appeal to me at all. I want to be out in the field, out in the world, doing something completely different."

 

[navymich]

Thanks for posting that T6!  Very well written article that covers alot.  This topic should almost be stickied for all those asking questions about RMC!!  Maybe we can get some comments from some of that class (once they're allowed on computers....LOL) to add to it.

 

[FredDaHead]

Actually, they already are allowed to use computers. Or at least, my class could go on computers during FYOP, if we went during class hours.

As for the article... it's not bad, though I have some problems with the OCdt saying "I don't know what we're doing in A-stan, but our guys are dying." It makes him sound as though they're dying for nothing.

The journalist seems hopefully clueless about the military and doesn't seem to have done her research vis-à-vis College traditions--which is understandable. Another thing that bugs me, brought on by her cluelessness about RMC, is her reporting that RMC "ruck marches" are done sans-ruck. While it's true that the first few marches were ruck-less, it should be moving to walking around with weight and walking longer and faster. It's not like we just go and walk around for a while, and that we'll do that all year. It's all about progressing.

Anyway, what are you doing reading this? Go read the article!

 

[MarkOttawa]

In the army, now
http://www.theglobeandmail.com//servlet/story/LAC.20060916.COVER16/TPStory/Comment/?pageRequested=all

While most of it seems good enough reporting to me, I think this bit is rather tendentious, to say the least:

Many of the cadets are similarly frank about that financial issue -- and it can be discomfiting. RMC offers a lot of opportunity: direction for the aimless, a sense of belonging and solid job prospects. But it also offers a tuition waiver, a $15,000 annual paycheque and cheap room and board. Is a certain sector of Canadians willing to pay for those amenities by risking their lives?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[a78jumper]

Also not mentioned was the percentage of grads that actually end up combat arms and directly in harm's way. Maybe 10%. The rest are Army support, Air Force  or Navy. certainly hugely important jobs, but not likely to be in a situation daily  where you could be dead at nightfall. Just my 2 cents, I am an ex Cadet who had a career in the Logistics Branch as a box kicker, and certainly played the game with the best of them, but not out there toting a rifle on a daily basis, though served quite a bit in field units. Perhaps these new officers should do time as Infantry Platoon Commanders first?

 

[Japexican]

"Many of the cadets are similarly frank about that financial issue -- and it can be discomfiting. RMC offers a lot of opportunity: direction for the aimless, a sense of belonging and solid job prospects. But it also offers a tuition waiver, a $15,000 annual paycheque and cheap room and board. Is a certain sector of Canadians willing to pay for those amenities by risking their lives?"

With regards to the above quote, I tend to agree partially.  It is disturbing to have people in the college who are only there for the education/paycheck.  However, these are not the guys going into the combat arms.  For the most part, the combat arms guys genuinely signed up for the right reasons and they are the backbone of the college.  It would be nice to get rid of the future officers who aren't there for the right reasons, but that's life.  Though I don't think they should be here, even those that signed up just for the education do their jobs, just like the rest of us. You will find people in every field of work that shouldn't be.  The question is a bit stupid in that regard... the same question could be asked of DEOs and their signing bonuses, or guys in med-school that are making Lt pay while in school (the ones with the 350Z parked out in the parking lot during BOTC...), or anybody else making any amount of money.

 

[GDawg]

That quote almost seems to suggest RMC is for hobos and drifters.

I could have sworn RMC was difficult to get into...

 

[FredDaHead]

It is disturbing to have people in the college who are only there for the education/paycheck.  However, these are not the guys going into the combat arms.  For the most part, the combat arms guys genuinely signed up for the right reasons and they are the backbone of the college.

Typical Army Hoorah bullshit.

The Combat Arms people aren't special. A bunch of them probably signed up because they thought "hey, I get to shoot a gun, how cool is that?" I wish people like you could tell the difference between guys from any trade who signed up for the right reason, and people from the combat arms who signed up for the wrong reasons.

The backbone of the college are the people--of any trade, be they the MARS, Air Log or Infantry guys--who joined up because they wanted to do their part for Canada and "do the right thing." NOT the "combat arms people."

I'm tired of this College being so goddamned army-centric... What's next, we'll all wear Army DEUs so we can all look like we're on the same team?

 

[Trinity]

Fred..

You realize you're a 2nd year NCdt arguing with a 2nd year OCdt (with 7 posts) *I love the irony

You're probably right in your statements but you don't need to insult
the other guy/trade/army to make your point. But I do appreciate your
point of view.

 

[Meridian]

I was a 1 year Junior OCdt,  and the sheer amount of "colleagues" I had that were quite candid about  their reasons for RMC was shocking to say the least.
They were young, sure, and maybe not all of them will make it through all five years, and maybe some more will mature and change..  But QUITE A FEW of the 140 I went to school with were there for paid flight training and/or a free college education.

The interesting thing is that it is not free.  You work it off.  From what was rumoured from older brothers/etc, some top-classmen were wooed away by big Engineering firms; paying signing bonuses to the equivalent of the 10k/year owing on the 5 year commitment from a subsidized education.    The education would be free if you could walk away at convocation.  Nothing is free in this world.

 

[xmarcx]

The question is a bit stupid in that regard... the same question could be asked of DEOs and their signing bonuses, or guys in med-school that are making Lt pay while in school (the ones with the 350Z parked out in the parking lot during BOTC...), or anybody else making any amount of money.

With the exception of dentists and doctors, there aren't any DEO signing bonuses. I know there used to be fairly substantial ones for engineers, but they no doubt made up only a small portion of total applicants. I don't think you need to ask DEO applicants if there is an ulterior motive to their joining - something tells me it's not because they'd rather die in the military than at the hands of an outraged student loan collection officer!

 

[Japexican]

That's why I said the question asked in the article was stupid... it makes it seem like many of us are in it only for the money.  Everybody in the military makes money, this doesn't mean that we signed up for just that reason.

 

[Japexican]

Sorry for the double post...  By the way, Freddie G didn't "hurt my feelings", so I'll try not to cry myself to sleep tonight.

I'm not in the army, so I hope that I don't get accused of spewing "army hoorah bullshit" but... In second year, there is no difference between the army guys and the navy/air force guys, but as they get more army specific courses, they learn more about leadership than us on PFT, or NETPO.  I find that this precludes them to a higher percentage of leadership positions at the college.  If the college was run by the air force, we'd sleep in until 7:40 every morning...  Who do you think recommended ruck marches every Wed?  It wasn't anyone in the air force (excluding sandhurst), and it probably wasn't anyone in the navy either.  We (non-army) don't like to partake in this stuff, so the army guys are left holding the tiller, just like on range days.

The backbone of the college are the people--of any trade, be they the MARS, Air Log or Infantry guys--who joined up because they wanted to do their part for Canada and "do the right thing." NOT the "combat arms people."

I agree with you 100% here, but how many of those people (MARS, Log...) really care about the army stuff?  I would venture that the percentages are much higher in the combat arms, which is why I said they are the "back bone"... there are lots of them and they care about the college more than us.  This is not to say that the air force and navy guys don't contribute to the college, just that the army guys seem to care more on average.

We can't get away with doing nothing at the college, so we do training... we don't have any YAG's to command, and we can't afford to fly airplanes, so we do army stuff.  I think that this is one of the reasons why the college is so "army-centric".  And frankly this is the reason the we (the non army trades) have a hard time getting as pumped up about the stuff at the college as the combat arms guys.


Go 7 sqn... did we really suck that badly last year?  Oh, well I changed squads anyways. 

 

[GO!!!]

While officers do make a decent wage after the first few years of their careers, I think that the money issue is kind of a moot point.

One platoon commander in my unit somewhat unhappily pointed out that he, after completing four years at RMC, all of his Infantry Phase trg and two years in the unit still did not earn as much as his signaller, and would not for at least a year.

You'll never be rich working for anyone else, and the military is no exception.

 

[FredDaHead]

You'll never be rich working for anyone else, and the military is no exception.

So does that mean I should start my own army? ...Do they still give out letters of marque and if so, where do I get one?

 

[vonGarvin]

Typical Army Hoorah bullshit.
The Combat Arms people aren't special. A bunch of them probably signed up because they thought "hey, I get to shoot a gun, how cool is that?" I wish people like you could tell the difference between guys from any trade who signed up for the right reason, and people from the combat arms who signed up for the wrong reasons.
The backbone of the college are the people--of any trade, be they the MARS, Air Log or Infantry guys--who joined up because they wanted to do their part for Canada and "do the right thing." NOT the "combat arms people."
I'm tired of this College being so goddamned army-centric... What's next, we'll all wear Army DEUs so we can all look like we're on the same team?

"Small Trade Syndrome".
Don't forget that as a Naval Officer, you ultimately exist so that the infantryman and armour crewman can do his or her job.  Full stop.

Get over it, BUT, never forget that you have joined up for doing the right thing AND that those combat arms "Rock Stars" who just want to shoot guns and the like will NOT make it through phase training at the combat training centre, because we don't have time for "Rock Stars".  I also have trust in RMC to root them out.  You don't need them, and neither do I.


Cheers

:cheers:

 

[Babbling Brooks]

Going for a 'free' education and a guaranteed job aren't enough to get you through RMC.  Period.  I know of what I speak, here.

But I find it curious that anyone should bash a recruit who signs up for ROTP at MilCol primarily for those benefits.  Young people with more brains and talent than money and opportunities have been signing up for military service as a means to financial and social advancement ever since the inception of professional soldiery.  Why do you think we get so many recruits from the Maritimes, or that CF recruiting numbers wax during a recession, and wane during a boom?  And it's not just the officers - you don't think the high-school grad who joins up to learn a trade, or to get a steady paycheque, or to see the world is worthy of our praise and respect?

As was noted above, everyone in the CF serves for their own reasons - reasons more complex than you can fit into two lines of newsprint for a superficial article in the G&M - but they serve nonetheless.  If you're a gold-digger and you do the job, you're in; if you're the most gung-ho patriot ever to tattoo a maple leaf on your forehead, but you can't do the job, you're out.

If you're willing and able to show up at the appointed time, in the appointed place, in the appointed uniform and execute your duties to the best of your abilities and to the standards set by the CF, I'm glad to have my taxes pay your way.

Enough about motivations, folks.  It's about getting the job done.  Pitter patter...

 

[GO!!!]

So does that mean I should start my own army? ...Do they still give out letters of marque and if so, where do I get one?

The point was that only a very foolish person would join the military as a method of becoming wealthy, there are other motivations.

Those of us who wish to become rich must, at some point, go into business for themselves.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Those of us who wish to become rich must, at some point, go into business for themselves.

..and the success rate in that endeavour is no better than lottery tickets. What is it about having your own business that makes people think you have money?

 

[muffin]

With the exception of dentists and doctors, there aren't any DEO signing bonuses. I know there used to be fairly substantial ones for engineers, but they no doubt made up only a small portion of total applicants. I don't think you need to ask DEO applicants if there is an ulterior motive to their joining - something tells me it's not because they'd rather die in the military than at the hands of an outraged student loan collection officer!

My cousin was just merited as an Engineer and told his bonus is to be approx 40K... so it is still there just not as big as it used to be.