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Roman Army vs Medieval Army

Remius

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Ok, I've read an interesting thread on another site about this.

Take a Roman army from the Imperial Era (ie Trajan's time) and pit it against a similar army from medieval times (ie Edward III's time).  Who would you bet on and why?
 
Hmm... I'm interested.  Are you proposing to hook that legion up with the more modern weapons of their counterparts?  Lay out the details a bit more so we can run with this.  Also, if you're kitting them out, do they get some time to work on their TTP's to adapt to the newer kit?
 
Well the Roman Army only started to develop the use of Cavalry near the end of their reign, where as the Medieval Military was well  versed in Cavalry tactics.

This being the major lynch pin, not to mention the development of larger swords, mainly intended for troops on horse back.

I would say Medieval.

dileas

tess
 
Based on what I have learned in HS history class, I would think the roman army would win. A sword is a sword, the Romans had much more discipline and their leaders were greater tacticians. I could be way off base, but from what I have been taught thus far I'd have to say the Roman Army

Although now that I think about it the Romans really were only very succesful against barbarians.
 
zanshin said:
Hmm... I'm interested.  Are you proposing to hook that legion up with the more modern weapons of their counterparts?  Lay out the details a bit more so we can run with this.  Also, if you're kitting them out, do they get some time to work on their TTP's to adapt to the newer kit?

No, let's go with their contemporary equipment.
 
Medieval Armies had the nasty habit of falling over and drowning in mud, Battle of Againcourt and also the battle between the lobster backs and round heads. Being pulled off their horses and unable to get up. I would go with the Romans and their archers, discipline and tactics. Maybe on the serious side this should be moved out of this forum to Military history.
 
the 48th regulator said:
Well the Roman Army only started to develop the use of Cavalry near the end of their reign, where as the Medieval Military was well  versed in Cavalry tactics.

This being the major lynch pin, not to mention the development of larger swords, mainly intended for troops on horse back.

I would say Medieval.

dileas

tess

Hmn, the romans certainly had their share of experience dealing with Cavalry (Parthians, Sarmatians etc etc) so I don't know if it is a lynchpin per se. Heavy cavalry would certainly be a problem but I doubt that a medieval army could field too many of them.   Also larger swords don't equate too much.  The gladius and scutum were much more effective for close quarter fighting.  The Gauls and Germans and celts certainly used much larger swords.
 
It would depend on which type of Medieval army and of what period : 

If everyting "medieval" goes, my strategy would be to "soften" the Legions with British archers and then hit them with a full scale cavalry charge (I don't think pilums would be enought to stop knight in armour).  It would be even more fun I was allowed to have cannons !

But if we're strictly talking about foot soldier vs foot soldier, my money would be on the Romans : better training, better tactics.




 
Can you give us both ORBATs and a rough description of the battleground?
 
Big Foot said:
My vote goes for the Medieval army for a few main reasons. First off, Roman armour is vastly inferior when compared to Medieval armour. As such, Roman weaponry would have a much more difficult time piercing the armour of their opponents while the opposite would be true for the Medieval army. Metal working went through many revolutions between the time of the Romans and the rise of the knight in Europe. The second major issue, as tess brought up, is the issue of mobility. The Romans were primarily foot-borne infantry using short swords versus a mix of cavalry and infantry using lances, long swords and pikes/halberds. In other words, not only would the Romans get knocked around by the foot-borne soldiers, they'd also have cavalry riding all around them hacking them to pieces. In short, my money goes with the Medieval army.

Interesting.  The Pilum was designed as armour piercing.  it could go through shield and armour.  Chainmail is chainmail.  The romans were able to defeat that armour in a variety of battles thgrouout their history.  The romans of that time also wore the lorica segmentum.  Almost as good as plate mail.  And every soldier wore it.  A medieval force would have plate mail but probably only the lords.  As far as lances or halberds and such they are unwieldly.  The romans were able to defeat the Greek phalanx quite handily.
 
Who has the initiative?
Who is attacking/defending?
Terrain?
Fortifications? Fixed, field, none?
Time?
Date?
Season?
Location?
Weather, leading up to an at the point of battle?
Quality and distance of logistic support?
Availability and make up of seige trains?
Are we confined to a specific battle incident, or are we talking about a campaign season?
Size of forces?
Balance of arms on each side?
Actions before battle?
Need a more precise determination of period and origin for each force.

Need info to assess the factors to do the estimate.

 
Yep, I agree.  That heavier armour was only worn by a select few.  I think when we get right down to it, the superior training, discipline, morale and cohesion of a Roman Legion would kick some major arse.

But, as I said a minute ago... let's get an ORBAT listing so we can really dissect this...
 
Squadron CO said:
It would depend on which type of Medieval army and of what period : 

If everyting "medieval" goes, my strategy would be to "soften" the Legions with British archers and then hit them with a full scale cavalry charge (I don't think pilums would be enought to stop knight in armour).  It would be even more fun I was allowed to have cannons !

But if we're strictly talking about foot soldier vs foot soldier, my money would be on the Romans : better training, better tactics.

Good point.  British archers would outrange any Roman bow, composite or not.  generally though only 30% of arrows find their mark.  Also keep in mind that a legion would have several Ballistas and bolt throwers that could keep Roman archers at bay.
 
Michael O'Leary said:
Who has the initiative?
Who is attacking/defending?
Terrain?
Fortifications? Fixed, field, none?
Time?
Date?
Season?
Location?
Weather, leading up to an at the point of battle?
Quality and distance of logistic support?
Are we confined to a specific battle incident, or are we talking about a campaign season?
Size of forces?
Balance of arms on each side?
Actions before battle?
Need a more precise determination of period and origin for each force.

Need info to assess the factors to do the estimate.

Ok, when I get home I'll come up with  a suitable orbat and some background to update this.
 
I've been drawn into these sorts of things before, usually resulting in an interesting waste of time.  I mean, how can you answer something like this?  There are simply too many variables.  Not all "medieval" armour was superior to Roman armour, not all "medieval" armies were heavy in cavalry or archers, the Roman army itself varied hugely in quality throughout its history, one has to factor in leadership, effects of logistics, etc.
 
So... are you drawn into this one too?  ;D

C'mawnn... you wanna see how it turns out?  doncha?
 
My money would be firmy on an Imperial field force....say 1st cent AD to 3rd Cent AD

For the following reasons....

A) Command and Control......superior to that employed by medieval armies and extended down to the contubernia .... squad sized groupings.....
Imperial Rome could boast a core of seasoned professional NCOs from Squad ( Contubernia) level up....and the commanders to get the best out of their men

B) Logistics....From rigidly enforced sanitary measures, health and hygiene to a professional logistics and medical corps....

C) Integration of all arms.....Sorry Tess...the idea that the Romans did not have a good cavalry arm is a fallacy...tho they did suffer from the usual Cav shortcomings......difficult to control once the charge went in etc...
The Cohors Equitatae....A unit with infantry centuries ( Companies) and Cavalry Turmae ( Troops ) were excellent examples of the close coordination possible to a Roman Field Force...

D)Cohesion and professionalism. Even a mediocre field force of Imperial Times would be more than a match for their relatively fragile ( in the sense of cohesion and staying power) medieval counterparts

We have to remember too that superior weapon systems do not always result in victory.....Equipping the French in 1940 with Panthers would not have allowed them to defeat our German friends.....



ROMA VICTA!!!!!

 
Lets think about a face off between a French or English force circa Agincourt.......facing off against a Feild Force of say 2nd Cent Ad based around 1-2 Legio with the usual assortment of Auxhiliary units....


I'll do some digging


SB
 
Michael O'Leary said:
Who has the initiative?
Who is attacking/defending?
Terrain?
Fortifications? Fixed, field, none?
Time?
Date?
Season?
Location?
Weather, leading up to an at the point of battle?
Quality and distance of logistic support?
Availability and make up of seige trains?
Are we confined to a specific battle incident, or are we talking about a campaign season?
Size of forces?
Balance of arms on each side?
Actions before battle?
Need a more precise determination of period and origin for each force.

Need info to assess the factors to do the estimate.
And you only have 8 hours.  On your mark, get set.....

;)
 
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