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ROTP Selections FY 2021-2022

S2020

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I sent an email to the recruitment office today and they told me my application is on hold because they (Ottawa) hasn't decided if I am medically fit, as soon as they make a decision my application will advance to the next stage. I am not sure what do they mean by this... My application has been on this stage for 2-3 months now and I am physically very fit with no health conditions in past. They told me to check every week to see what's happening with my file.
Anyone else has encounter this problem before. I am so worried and confused. Thanks.
 
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I sent an email to the recruitment office today and they told me my application is on hold because they (Ottawa) hasn't decided if I am medically fit, as soon as they make a decision my application will advance to the next stage. I am not sure what do they mean by this... My application has been on this stage for 2-3 months now and I am physically very fit with no health conditions in past. They told me to check every week to see what's happening with my file.
Anyone else has encounter this problem before. I am so worried and confused. Thanks.
Im very fit and active, so I expected to pass my medical just fine too. But there was a mistake done during the medical that basically showed I was a high risk for diabetes and heart disease, even though at the time my biggest concern is that I was underweight. It took a few months but I ended up getting it fixed, unfortunately I missed the selections for last year though because of it. The unfortunate reality of it is that you can do everything the best you can, but things can still come up.

The best thing you can do is keep asking questions, and don’t give up. There’s still time to get approved, and worst case scenario you have an extra year to prepare for rmc to make sure you’re as fit as possible, you can learn a lot of French in that time which will make your studies a lot easier, and you can take some courses at a civie uni and hope to get some transfer credits. As long as you don’t give up you will get there for sure. Hopefully you hear some good news soon.
 

S2020

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Im very fit and active, so I expected to pass my medical just fine too. But there was a mistake done during the medical that basically showed I was a high risk for diabetes and heart disease, even though at the time my biggest concern is that I was underweight. It took a few months but I ended up getting it fixed, unfortunately I missed the selections for last year though because of it. The unfortunate reality of it is that you can do everything the best you can, but things can still come up.

The best thing you can do is keep asking questions, and don’t give up. There’s still time to get approved, and worst case scenario you have an extra year to prepare for rmc to make sure you’re as fit as possible, you can learn a lot of French in that time which will make your studies a lot easier, and you can take some courses at a civie uni and hope to get some transfer credits. As long as you don’t give up you will get there for sure. Hopefully you hear some good news soon.
Thank you so much for your reply. Being unfit was never something that I thought can cause a problem for me because I never had any health problems but you are right things can happen differently than what we expect. In regards to French, I am a French immersion student and learning French since grade 1, so I will be getting my bilingual certificate this year. I thought of this being a benefit for me in RMC but only if I can selected. Fingers crossed :)
 

ih8pa1n

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Stay fit folks.. the RMC Physical Fitness Test is not a walk in the park but also not the hardest thing ever. If you fail it you will be put on supplemental pt which is at 6am in the morning and it sucks trust me.

Here are the workouts made by the RMC Physical Education Teachers (PSP). I strongly recommend to look at the "500 PPT" program if you are not fit.https://gopaladinsgo.ca/sports/2020/3/17/CB2020.aspx
 
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jman579

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Stay fit folks.. the RMC Physical Fitness Test is not a walk in the park but also not the hardest thing ever. If you fail it you will be put on supplemental pt which is at 6am in the morning and it sucks trust me.

Here are the workouts made by the RMC Physical Education Teachers (PSP). I strongly recommend to look at the "500 PPT" program if you are not fit.https://gopaladinsgo.ca/sports/2020/3/17/CB2020.aspx
bruh thx so much, how hard was it to do the 2.4km in under 10:34
 

ih8pa1n

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Not that hard but 10:34 is also a 50% for males

You may have seen stuff like push-ups and situps on the RMC website but those have been taken out and replaced with the IMTP, FAH and SMBT. Here's the new PPT test and scores taken from the Nov 2020 draft. Also the scoring is subject to change as its a new test.

The test is out of 500 and you must pass each category (a pass is not 50%... for example i think for males the SLJ is 195cm - 35% and each category has different minimum requirements) AND you must get at least 250/500 points

If you fail the test you get put on SPT. It is 4 days a week (MTTF) and at 6am in the morning. You'll be waking up at 5-530am, possibly getting your room ready for an inspection if an inspection happens that day after that that you'll be running about 1km to the gym (everyone runs around the campus when in PT gear, if you get caught walking you'll get punished with laps around the track) anyways once you get to the gym at 5:45am they take attendance (if you are late multiple times or skip supplemental pt you will be punished). If you don't pass the PPT by the end of 2nd year you will be PRBed (possibly getting kicked out of RMC).

Also I'm not trying to scare anyone. But RMC staff do give out corrective measures (punishments). That happens if you skip classes, duty, get caught doing something bad, etc. One of my buddies skipped SPT several times and was rewarded with running 10km everyday for 2 weeks around the track. Someone slept in on remembrance day oh boy... they had to write a 10 page essay about why that day is important, make a presentation in front of their whole squadron ( about 100 people) and were confined to campus for 2 or 3 weeks (couldnt go out on weekends), they couldn't wear civilian clothing outside of their room for that much time, extra duties(cleaning, inspections, etc.), and they had to wear a modified uniform for that time.(the modified uniform involves the pill box for head dress and gaiters around the ankles, basically if you wear it EVERYONE knows you did something wrong). The purpose of these corrective measures from my understanding is that you'll be handing them out one day when you are an officer. I have survived 2 years without any Corrective measures but I have seen people getting charged with AWOL, DRUNKNESS, etc. You don't wanna get charged as it will stay on your record I think.

I recommend reading the RMC survival guide. Some stuff is outdated but its worth the read.


This place is designed to stress you out. But don't let that bring you down. If you have been selected that means you HAVE the potential to graduate RMC.

2.4km run
Male 7:28min (100%), 10:34min (50%)
Female 9:30min (100%), 12:40min (50%)

Standing Long Jump
Male 294cm (100%), 222cm (50%)
Female 229cm (100%), 158cm (50%)

Seated medicine ball toss
Male 747W (100%), 285W (50%)
Female 341W (100%), 124W (50%)

10m agility run
Male 15.20sec (100%), 17.97sec (50%)
Female 16.40sec (100%), 19.60sec (50%)

Isometric mid-thigh pull
Male 3341Newtons (100%), 1470Newtons (50%)
Female 2336N (100%), 1065N (50%)

Flexed Arm Hang
Male 2min 49.5sec (100%), 1min 3.5sec (50%)
Female 2min 16.8sec (100%), 40.1sec (50%)
 

jman579

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Not that hard but 10:34 is also a 50% for males

You may have seen stuff like push-ups and situps on the RMC website but those have been taken out and replaced with the IMTP, FAH and SMBT. Here's the new PPT test and scores taken from the Nov 2020 draft. Also the scoring is subject to change as its a new test.

The test is out of 500 and you must pass each category (a pass is not 50%... for example i think for males the SLJ is 195cm - 35% and each category has different minimum requirements) AND you must get at least 250/500 points

If you fail the test you get put on SPT. It is 4 days a week (MTTF) and at 6am in the morning. You'll be waking up at 5-530am, possibly getting your room ready for an inspection if an inspection happens that day after that that you'll be running about 1km to the gym (everyone runs around the campus when in PT gear, if you get caught walking you'll get punished with laps around the track) anyways once you get to the gym at 5:45am they take attendance (if you are late multiple times or skip supplemental pt you will be punished). If you don't pass the PPT by the end of 2nd year you will be PRBed (possibly getting kicked out of RMC).

Also I'm not trying to scare anyone. But RMC staff do give out corrective measures (punishments). That happens if you skip classes, duty, get caught doing something bad, etc. One of my buddies skipped SPT several times and was rewarded with running 10km everyday for 2 weeks around the track. Someone slept in on remembrance day oh boy... they had to write a 10 page essay about why that day is important, make a presentation in front of their whole squadron ( about 100 people) and were confined to campus for 2 or 3 weeks (couldnt go out on weekends), they couldn't wear civilian clothing outside of their room for that much time, extra duties(cleaning, inspections, etc.), and they had to wear a modified uniform for that time.(the modified uniform involves the pill box for head dress and gaiters around the ankles, basically if you wear it EVERYONE knows you did something wrong). The purpose of these corrective measures from my understanding is that you'll be handing them out one day when you are an officer. I have survived 2 years without any Corrective measures but I have seen people getting charged with AWOL, DRUNKNESS, etc. You don't wanna get charged as it will stay on your record I think.

I recommend reading the RMC survival guide. Some stuff is outdated but its worth the read.


This place is designed to stress you out. But don't let that bring you down. If you have been selected that means you HAVE the potential to graduate RMC.

2.4km run
Male 7:28min (100%), 10:34min (50%)
Female 9:30min (100%), 12:40min (50%)

Standing Long Jump
Male 294cm (100%), 222cm (50%)
Female 229cm (100%), 158cm (50%)

Seated medicine ball toss
Male 747W (100%), 285W (50%)
Female 341W (100%), 124W (50%)

10m agility run
Male 15.20sec (100%), 17.97sec (50%)
Female 16.40sec (100%), 19.60sec (50%)

Isometric mid-thigh pull
Male 3341Newtons (100%), 1470Newtons (50%)
Female 2336N (100%), 1065N (50%)

Flexed Arm Hang
Male 2min 49.5sec (100%), 1min 3.5sec (50%)
Female 2min 16.8sec (100%), 40.1sec (50%)
I got accepted to rmc kingston for signals, do you have any advice? I know I am being broad, but can you drop any and all advice thatyou can think for people like who are going there for the first time.
 

jman579

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Not that hard but 10:34 is also a 50% for males

You may have seen stuff like push-ups and situps on the RMC website but those have been taken out and replaced with the IMTP, FAH and SMBT. Here's the new PPT test and scores taken from the Nov 2020 draft. Also the scoring is subject to change as its a new test.

The test is out of 500 and you must pass each category (a pass is not 50%... for example i think for males the SLJ is 195cm - 35% and each category has different minimum requirements) AND you must get at least 250/500 points

If you fail the test you get put on SPT. It is 4 days a week (MTTF) and at 6am in the morning. You'll be waking up at 5-530am, possibly getting your room ready for an inspection if an inspection happens that day after that that you'll be running about 1km to the gym (everyone runs around the campus when in PT gear, if you get caught walking you'll get punished with laps around the track) anyways once you get to the gym at 5:45am they take attendance (if you are late multiple times or skip supplemental pt you will be punished). If you don't pass the PPT by the end of 2nd year you will be PRBed (possibly getting kicked out of RMC).

Also I'm not trying to scare anyone. But RMC staff do give out corrective measures (punishments). That happens if you skip classes, duty, get caught doing something bad, etc. One of my buddies skipped SPT several times and was rewarded with running 10km everyday for 2 weeks around the track. Someone slept in on remembrance day oh boy... they had to write a 10 page essay about why that day is important, make a presentation in front of their whole squadron ( about 100 people) and were confined to campus for 2 or 3 weeks (couldnt go out on weekends), they couldn't wear civilian clothing outside of their room for that much time, extra duties(cleaning, inspections, etc.), and they had to wear a modified uniform for that time.(the modified uniform involves the pill box for head dress and gaiters around the ankles, basically if you wear it EVERYONE knows you did something wrong). The purpose of these corrective measures from my understanding is that you'll be handing them out one day when you are an officer. I have survived 2 years without any Corrective measures but I have seen people getting charged with AWOL, DRUNKNESS, etc. You don't wanna get charged as it will stay on your record I think.

I recommend reading the RMC survival guide. Some stuff is outdated but its worth the read.


This place is designed to stress you out. But don't let that bring you down. If you have been selected that means you HAVE the potential to graduate RMC.

2.4km run
Male 7:28min (100%), 10:34min (50%)
Female 9:30min (100%), 12:40min (50%)

Standing Long Jump
Male 294cm (100%), 222cm (50%)
Female 229cm (100%), 158cm (50%)

Seated medicine ball toss
Male 747W (100%), 285W (50%)
Female 341W (100%), 124W (50%)

10m agility run
Male 15.20sec (100%), 17.97sec (50%)
Female 16.40sec (100%), 19.60sec (50%)

Isometric mid-thigh pull
Male 3341Newtons (100%), 1470Newtons (50%)
Female 2336N (100%), 1065N (50%)

Flexed Arm Hang
Male 2min 49.5sec (100%), 1min 3.5sec (50%)
Female 2min 16.8sec (100%), 40.1sec (50%)
Also what is Collecting the colours mean?
 

hattrick72

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Not that hard but 10:34 is also a 50% for males

You may have seen stuff like push-ups and situps on the RMC website but those have been taken out and replaced with the IMTP, FAH and SMBT. Here's the new PPT test and scores taken from the Nov 2020 draft. Also the scoring is subject to change as its a new test.

The test is out of 500 and you must pass each category (a pass is not 50%... for example i think for males the SLJ is 195cm - 35% and each category has different minimum requirements) AND you must get at least 250/500 points

If you fail the test you get put on SPT. It is 4 days a week (MTTF) and at 6am in the morning. You'll be waking up at 5-530am, possibly getting your room ready for an inspection if an inspection happens that day after that that you'll be running about 1km to the gym (everyone runs around the campus when in PT gear, if you get caught walking you'll get punished with laps around the track) anyways once you get to the gym at 5:45am they take attendance (if you are late multiple times or skip supplemental pt you will be punished). If you don't pass the PPT by the end of 2nd year you will be PRBed (possibly getting kicked out of RMC).

Also I'm not trying to scare anyone. But RMC staff do give out corrective measures (punishments). That happens if you skip classes, duty, get caught doing something bad, etc. One of my buddies skipped SPT several times and was rewarded with running 10km everyday for 2 weeks around the track. Someone slept in on remembrance day oh boy... they had to write a 10 page essay about why that day is important, make a presentation in front of their whole squadron ( about 100 people) and were confined to campus for 2 or 3 weeks (couldnt go out on weekends), they couldn't wear civilian clothing outside of their room for that much time, extra duties(cleaning, inspections, etc.), and they had to wear a modified uniform for that time.(the modified uniform involves the pill box for head dress and gaiters around the ankles, basically if you wear it EVERYONE knows you did something wrong). The purpose of these corrective measures from my understanding is that you'll be handing them out one day when you are an officer. I have survived 2 years without any Corrective measures but I have seen people getting charged with AWOL, DRUNKNESS, etc. You don't wanna get charged as it will stay on your record I think.

I recommend reading the RMC survival guide. Some stuff is outdated but its worth the read.


This place is designed to stress you out. But don't let that bring you down. If you have been selected that means you HAVE the potential to graduate RMC.

2.4km run
Male 7:28min (100%), 10:34min (50%)
Female 9:30min (100%), 12:40min (50%)

Standing Long Jump
Male 294cm (100%), 222cm (50%)
Female 229cm (100%), 158cm (50%)

Seated medicine ball toss
Male 747W (100%), 285W (50%)
Female 341W (100%), 124W (50%)

10m agility run
Male 15.20sec (100%), 17.97sec (50%)
Female 16.40sec (100%), 19.60sec (50%)

Isometric mid-thigh pull
Male 3341Newtons (100%), 1470Newtons (50%)
Female 2336N (100%), 1065N (50%)

Flexed Arm Hang
Male 2min 49.5sec (100%), 1min 3.5sec (50%)
Female 2min 16.8sec (100%), 40.1sec (50%)
Never in my life would I ever think of an RMC student missing duty, PT, etc and not going on C&P to release if not corrected in quick order.....

You will not be handing out corrective measure without Summary trial/admin measure unless it directly relates to the shortcoming i.e. you won't be running 10km everyday because you left a small mess in the unit vehicle. A 5B with a measure that relates can be a wake-up call, but IC is generally more appropriate. Harder on the supervisor, but it will stick on your record forever.

Charges will stay on your record until you complete all phase training. After that point you can have most charges removed, within reason.

Good luck completing your studies and your future.
 

S2020

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I got an email today with some positive news that I have successfully completed all of the processing steps and now I am on the final stage of completion list. They also mentioned that due to Covid CAF selections have been significantly reduced and what this could mean for my application is longer wait time than normal on the CL to receive an offer.
Not sure if this is just a precautionary email to all applicants in case things take time due to Covid or this means for sure my application will take months? I am glad that my application is headed in the right direction but worried at the same time. Can this take months for me to get the job offer? I applied for ROTP engineering trades.
Thank you so much in advance for your reply.
 

ih8pa1n

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Never in my life would I ever think of an RMC student missing duty, PT, etc and not going on C&P to release if not corrected in quick order.....

You will not be handing out corrective measure without Summary trial/admin measure unless it directly relates to the shortcoming i.e. you won't be running 10km everyday because you left a small mess in the unit vehicle. A 5B with a measure that relates can be a wake-up call, but IC is generally more appropriate. Harder on the supervisor, but it will stick on your record forever.

Charges will stay on your record until you complete all phase training. After that point you can have most charges removed, within reason.

Good luck completing your studies and your future.
Thanks for the info.

You'd be surprised at how many Officer Cadets do dumb stuff. Right after we were confined to the college last year when the pandemic was spreading globally. 2 OCdts decided to jump the fence to go into town. They literally disobeyed the top soldier's order... A couple of years ago someone decided to drive their car on the parade square and do burnouts at night and MP's (Military Police) driving behind him. I couldn't go to his summary trial last year but I heard it was fucking hilarious. Three males in my division decided to draw a penis on the snow right outside the girl's bathroom last year... I'm surprised they weren't kicked out... and they are graduating in 2 weeks (being commissioned as 2Lts). Most of the campus is breaking rules every single day like drinking in our dorms, weed on campus, not snitching on peers (Every course has a class senior, which is randomly assigned to someone in the class. The person's job is to take attendance for the Training Wing's tracking purposes).

Sorry I wasn't fully clear with OR's (Observation Reports) and I have no idea if it's just an RMC thing.
Im just gonna copy and paste what the RMC survival guide says
"Sanctions are punishments, OR’s go are observation reports that go in your RMC file. You can get Good OR’s from being a good cadet and helping out others etc. You can also get a bad OR for not following RMC rules, doing something stupid, having alcohol on campus, etc… Bad OR’s will normally result in sanctions. Sanctions come in two forms, LOP and CM. (Loss of privileges and corrective measure.) LOP’s are things like not being able to leave the RMC campus, not being allowed to wear civilian clothing, etc… CM’s are things like an extra drill, extra duties, etc..."

If you get an OR whether it is good or bad. The entire Cadet Wing which is about 1200 OCdts can see what you did, and what punishment you will receive. Basically, if you do something stupid which can be as small as sending out a wing-wide email to +1200 people but only in English and not in french then you will be punished. (All emails sent out are in English with a french copy below it or vice versa)

Getting charged is something else... I think I have only seen people getting fined financially like e.g. $500, etc. Also when you get charged the Div Sarge-Major aka MasterWarrentOfficer will send out the email to all military members(cadets/training wing) at college about what you did, whether you were guilty, what section you violated and your sentence. I don't know if this public humiliation is just an RMC thing or a CAF-wide thing.

My buddy missed his medical appointment one time and was rewarded with showing up to his SQN NCO's office the next morning at 0600hrs with his polished boots. Someone else who I know skipped 4 medical appointments in 1 week and was charged with AWOL. IMO they deserved that for wasted time, and resources.

Sorry for the English errors, I am ESL and am just writing stuff down as i think of it.
 

ih8pa1n

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I got accepted to rmc kingston for signals, do you have any advice? I know I am being broad, but can you drop any and all advice thatyou can think for people like who are going there for the first time.
My advice is to get FIT and start working on your French OR English(If you are a franco). Trust me you wanna get french/english done asap as its 6hrs a week. Once you get a BBB profile (Reading, writing, speaking) you get 6hrs of spares on your schedule where you can work on other stuff, chill or take a nap. Id also work on your fitness or you'll be put on 4hrs of SPT. It doesn't seem like a long time (4hrs) but it's early in the morning and some workouts feel like an eternity lol. And if your really fit and get 400+ on the PPT you will be exempt from taking the test in the 2nd semester. (the test happens twice an academic year)

Based on your posts I assume you are going into engineering. I myself am in civil engineering and not gonna lie it has been brutal. You'll need to manage your time well and quit bad habits like video games and leaving shit the last day. All the hardcore gamers I knew in engg did really shit at school and some failed courses... Not saying you should stop playing games at all or watching TV or whatever. Enjoy this stuff in moderation.
RMC experience is different for everyone. Arts kids have more spares and you'll see them chilling in their rooms all the time playing video games. Us engg kids are always grinding and make fun of their useless history degrees hehe. Like in the second semester of Arts in first year my buddy was learning stuff like y= mx+b while I was doing cancerous double integrals lol.

There are also 4 pillars at rmc (Academics, bilingualism, fitness, military leadership) and you must pass all of them. I am not even gonna count the military leadership pillar as an actual pillar as it's so easy like anyone could do it... as nobody can fail it, it's that easy. Academics is the only pillar everyone at the college is working towards. Some first years will show up this fall and they are already bilingual or really fit or both and will only have to worry about 1 pillar (academics) or 2 pillars (academics and bilingual OR fitness) for the 4 years of their time here. Some 4th years that are about to graduate this spring may have spent all 4 years working on ALL the pillars. So yeah it's different for everyone. Some people will enjoy their time here while others will find it miserable. IMO the length of ROTP (4 yrs) makes it as miserable as bootcamp which is 3months (BMOQ). The ones who mostly enjoy their time here seem to be arts kids (always playing video games, chilling, going to QueensU parties, etc.)

Its short term pain, long-term gain. Your 4yrs and the military training over the summers is gonna be challenging but ahead of you will be a guaranteed job, pension, health/dental care, etc. The best decision I ever made was ROTP, even though its hard at times i just try to push through the bullshit/fuckery. The world keeps getting more competitive than last time, some of my friends who graduated from Civilian Unis are working retail jobs right now... Remember that Bootcamp at CFLRS (BMOQ) and ROTP at RMC isn't the actual military or what trade you signed up for.
 

jman579

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My advice is to get FIT and start working on your French OR English(If you are a franco). Trust me you wanna get french/english done asap as its 6hrs a week. Once you get a BBB profile (Reading, writing, speaking) you get 6hrs of spares on your schedule where you can work on other stuff, chill or take a nap. Id also work on your fitness or you'll be put on 4hrs of SPT. It doesn't seem like a long time (4hrs) but it's early in the morning and some workouts feel like an eternity lol. And if your really fit and get 400+ on the PPT you will be exempt from taking the test in the 2nd semester. (the test happens twice an academic year)

Based on your posts I assume you are going into engineering. I myself am in civil engineering and not gonna lie it has been brutal. You'll need to manage your time well and quit bad habits like video games and leaving shit the last day. All the hardcore gamers I knew in engg did really shit at school and some failed courses... Not saying you should stop playing games at all or watching TV or whatever. Enjoy this stuff in moderation.
RMC experience is different for everyone. Arts kids have more spares and you'll see them chilling in their rooms all the time playing video games. Us engg kids are always grinding and make fun of their useless history degrees hehe. Like in the second semester of Arts in first year my buddy was learning stuff like y= mx+b while I was doing cancerous double integrals lol.

There are also 4 pillars at rmc (Academics, bilingualism, fitness, military leadership) and you must pass all of them. I am not even gonna count the military leadership pillar as an actual pillar as it's so easy like anyone could do it... as nobody can fail it, it's that easy. Academics is the only pillar everyone at the college is working towards. Some first years will show up this fall and they are already bilingual or really fit or both and will only have to worry about 1 pillar (academics) or 2 pillars (academics and bilingual OR fitness) for the 4 years of their time here. Some 4th years that are about to graduate this spring may have spent all 4 years working on ALL the pillars. So yeah it's different for everyone. Some people will enjoy their time here while others will find it miserable. IMO the length of ROTP (4 yrs) makes it as miserable as bootcamp which is 3months (BMOQ). The ones who mostly enjoy their time here seem to be arts kids (always playing video games, chilling, going to QueensU parties, etc.)

Its short term pain, long-term gain. Your 4yrs and the military training over the summers is gonna be challenging but ahead of you will be a guaranteed job, pension, health/dental care, etc. The best decision I ever made was ROTP, even though its hard at times i just try to push through the bullshit/fuckery. The world keeps getting more competitive than last time, some of my friends who graduated from Civilian Unis are working retail jobs right now... Remember that Bootcamp at CFLRS (BMOQ) and ROTP at RMC isn't the actual military or what trade you signed up for.
Thx for the info bro, how hard is french BBB standard, I have been doing french immersion since grade 4, so I have some background in French. What does the BBB standard entail in regard to conjugation, speech and reading?

Also, the RMC survival guide was not too specific on the rules, what are the rules when it comes to social stuff, curfew, partying, relationships/fraternization, gaming, internet, and anything u can think of. I'm asking this not because I want to fuck around, but instead because I want to know what I can do within the rules and what is against the rules, so I don't anciently get into trouble.

Finally, what is the Winter ball and the Storming of the Boat?
 
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