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Royal Canadian Navy, coast guard short hundreds of sailors

Halifax Tar

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Lumber said:
Can you elaborate on this? What's the divide and how is it broadening?

Not on this open source I wont.  Also those above this post are doing a fine job of summing things up.

I want to clarify this is not mutiny I am talking about, its people having enough and walking away.  And I cannot balme them. 





 

Lumber

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daftandbarmy said:
They shared a few examples with me that left my mouth hanging open, and not just because I was ready for another beer.

Any chance you cooked share those stories? I'm always interested in bad examples to avoid.
 

Lumber

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garb811 said:
This is the problem, the people at the top of the divide just don't get it, because they are the ones who are benefiting from it.

I'm still not clear what the specific divide is that people are talking about. I'm not trying to be argumentative ror obtuse, I'm just trying to see the perspective that apparently I'm obvious to.
 

garb811

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Lumber said:
I'm still not clear what the specific divide is that people are talking about. I'm not trying to be argumentative ror obtuse, I'm just trying to see the perspective that apparently I'm obvious to.
Hmm...how to put it.

The RCN "experience" is very much influenced by your rank and mess.  If you are an Officer, your "experience" is night and day compared to what an OS/LS has. While this is true across the board, the divide between those experiences in the navy is massive. And it all boils down to how the Jr folks are treated.

It's like the difference between being a passenger on a cruise ship compared to a crew member. Both are on the same ship, going to the same places, but both have very different views on what that experience really is.

I'm not saying that officers don't work and don't work hard. I'm not saying the same thing about the Chiefs and POs either. The simple fact is, in general, one group is treated as the crew on the cruise ship, the others expect to be treated as the paying passengers.
 

dimsum

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Lumber said:
I'm still not clear what the specific divide is that people are talking about. I'm not trying to be argumentative ror obtuse, I'm just trying to see the perspective that apparently I'm obvious to.

I think garb hit it right on the head, and that's from experience.  It was a shock when I switched over to the RCAF and seeing how people treat each other, even little things like instructors using your first name instead of 2LT so-and-so, and I really think that the "first name basis" stereotype (which is really only aircrew and select maintainers) has some merit in changing the culture. 

It's not an exact analogy, but I worked with USN folks on exercise and after a while, I asked them (equivalent to Cpl) what their first names were b/c I was getting sick of calling them by their rank in what was essentially an office.  They, and the USN LT I was working with, looked at me like I had three heads.

I also think it's not something that can be really "explained", but more "experienced".  I think it's one of those things where you just have to go to a squadron (especially one with NCM aircrew, like an LRP, MH, SAR, or Transport squadron) for a bit to see the subtle differences from a ship. 
 

PuckChaser

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So the RCN needs an Undercover Boss episode or 3?
 

MilEME09

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With such a large amount needed, realistically how long would it take to train that many? I also do not think enough is invested in recruiting strategies, clearly efforts to show canadians the navy, and the forces as a whole as a viable option
 

Lumber

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garb811 said:
Hmm...how to put it.

Dimsum said:
I think garb hit it right on the head, and that's from experience. 

Thanks, guys, I definitely get what you're saying now.

I'd still be more interested in some concrete examples so that I can try and fix the situations when I come across them, but some of the things I can think of are just so institutionalize in not sure how you would change them.

Since I believe in putting up our shutting up, I'll provide a couple examples of my own of what I think you guys are talking about...

Actually, after making the list, it's kind of scary, and potentially incriminating (for officers in general, not me specifically) so I deleted it.

Here's a more tame one: officers cabins don't get inspected on nightly rounds while at sea, and holy hell some of them should be.
 

Furniture

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Any of you knowledgeable folks out on the left coast know where someone should start looking for job opportunities in the maritime world? Particularly if they were thinking of retiring from the CAF to be out there in summer/fall 2021?

I'd consider the RCN, but my trade is red, and after 800 days at sea I have little interest in being a Jr rank on ship. (I like chairs with a back while I eat) 
 

daftandbarmy

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Furniture said:
Any of you knowledgeable folks out on the left coast know where someone should start looking for job opportunities in the maritime world? Particularly if they were thinking of retiring from the CAF to be out there in summer/fall 2021?

I'd consider the RCN, but my trade is red, and after 800 days at sea I have little interest in being a Jr rank on ship. (I like chairs with a back while I eat)

Seaspan: https://www.seaspan.com/careers
 

Colin Parkinson

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Offshoot of Seaspan and combined with the Haisla to provide escort and docking tugs for LNGC Canada

https://www.supplychainconnector.ca/haisea-marine-service-ltd-1323

these guys are always looking http://wcmrc.com/ Starting wage for a deckhand is $28 an hour apparently.
 

FSTO

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dapaterson said:
And the Navy has retention and recruiting problems.  Almost as if there's a relationship between the two...

One could also note that only 1:8 hard sea trade personnel are Francophone, where Canada's population is 1:4 Francophone.  Imagine if the RCN tried to create the possibility of careers for Francophone sailors (and their families) - that's a big chunk of the current personnel deficit, right there.
Not trying to be flippant here but your idea of setting up another base in Quebec is just not in the cards in the foreseeable future if ever. Cripes the entire RCN is barely hanging on with its fingernails as it is without the added IE and Personnel expenses of a massively expanded Dockyard VDQ. 
 

Cloud Cover

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FSTO: for all the reasons you note, don’t those pretty much guarantee a whopping expensive base in Quebec? No cost is too small....
 

Journeyman

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FSTO said:
Not trying to be flippant here but your idea of setting up another base in Quebec is just not in the cards in the foreseeable future if ever. Cripes the entire RCN is barely hanging on with its fingernails as it is without the added IE and Personnel expenses of a massively expanded Dockyard VDQ.
I defy anyone to show a rational fiscal  reason for reopening CMR, yet it occurred.  If this COA had a similarly ardent/connected campaigner as CMR had, expenses may magically become a minor irritant for VDQ expansion.

Focus on the operational requirements -- you know, patrolling the St Lawrence for U-Boats or keeping Wolfe and his ilk from scaling the cliffs to les Plaines d'Abraham.  :nod:
 

dapaterson

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Journeyman said:
I defy anyone to show a rational fiscal  reason for reopening CMR, yet it occurred.  If this COA had a similarly ardent/connected campaigner as CMR had, expenses may magically become a minor irritant for VDQ expansion.

Focus on the operational requirements -- you know, patrolling the St Lawrence for U-Boats or keeping Wolfe and his ilk from scaling the cliffs to les Plaines d'Abraham.  :nod:

Or on creating the environment to attract and retain talent from 25% of Canada's population, to be better able to sustain the Navy.

But new bling for uniforms is easier, and clearly has solved the RCN's manning problems...
 

Furniture

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dapaterson said:
Or on creating the environment to attract and retain talent from 25% of Canada's population, to be better able to sustain the Navy.

But new bling for uniforms is easier, and clearly has solved the RCN's manning problems...

Alternatively, it might create a major retention issue when the hopped for francophones don't join, or get posted elsewhere. Potentially resulting in the anglophones who get posted there deciding to release due to family concerns, and/or high taxes.
 
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