RT 524 parts

[Occam]

Link to what, exactly?  And are you looking on DWAN?

 

[my72jeep]

Link to what, exactly?  And are you looking on DWAN?

I have no access to the DWAN. You said you checked the list and 524 radios were on it.(Okay, here's the scoop.  They are Controlled Goods (DMC: F), I just checked CGCS.  The radio is 1B/D, meaning item is under review for cancellation, and it's in disposal status.) can you cut and past the section of the CGCS for me?

 

[Occam]

All that information came from CGCS - Canadian Government Cataloging System.  I have access to DWAN at home.  Without DWAN, you can't access CGCS.

CGCS provides all the supply information; item name, manufacturer's part number, status, accountability, unit of issue, DMC, etc. 

DMC (Demilitarization Code) is what specifies whether it's Controlled Goods or not, and the RT-524 is DMC: F, which indicates it is CG.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have no access to the DWAN. You said you checked the list and 524 radios were on it.(Okay, here's the scoop.  They are Controlled Goods (DMC: F), I just checked CGCS.  The radio is 1B/D, meaning item is under review for cancellation, and it's in disposal status.) can you cut and past the section of the CGCS for me?

All that information came from CGCS - Canadian Government Cataloging System.  I have access to DWAN at home.  Without DWAN, you can't access CGCS.

CGCS provides all the supply information; item name, manufacturer's part number, status, accountability, unit of issue, DMC, etc. 

DMC (Demilitarization Code) is what specifies whether it's Controlled Goods or not, and the RT-524 is DMC: F, which indicates it is CG.

He asked you to cut and paste the info.

 

[Occam]

Okay, either there was a ninja edit there, or I completely missed the "can you cut and past the section of the CGCS for me?" part.  Hold on, let me start up the laptop.

 

[Occam]

Most of it will be gibberish to you; if you want an explanation as to what something means, let me know.

 

[my72jeep]

Wow A has been radio that is available in dam near any surplus store in the states, is a controlled item in Canada based on a US mandate. WTF? Ive bought 3 of them in the past on Ebay and had them shiped to Canada and no issues.

 

[Occam]

Looking at the NSN, the second field is "00", so it's an American NSN.  They set the DMC code; our system follows their assignment unless we challenge the DMC assigned.  Since the radio is obsolete, you won't find anyone wasting their time doing a DMC challenge on it.  That's likely what happened with this particular kit.

You have to remember, this whole Controlled Goods thing is relatively new.  In the absence of something concrete that says something isn't Controlled Goods, everything was made Controlled Goods by default.  When I catalog new items into the Supply system, one of the things I have to do is assign the appropriate DMC code based on the Export Control List and the US Munitions List - essentially saying whether it's a Controlled Good or not.

 

[George Wallace]

Wow A has been radio that is available in dam near any surplus store in the states, is a controlled item in Canada based on a US mandate. WTF? Ive bought 3 of them in the past on Ebay and had them shiped to Canada and no issues.

That is the point I was making.  This came into effect a couple years ago, and now there is a panic to ensure it is being implemented.  What you did in the past, you can't do now, or soon won't be able to.  I am sure there is someone in Florida willing to sell you some property cheap so you can house your "collection" there "legally".  >

 

[George Wallace]

Looking at the NSN, the second field is "00", so it's an American NSN. 

At the same time, this applies to all our military technology, whether it originated in the US or not.  There are pieces of American 'technology' in many of our other military purchases from other nations as well, so even the Leopard family of vehicles would fall under these regs.  If we were like the States, and an individual was able to purchase a Tank, we wouldn't be able to now, as the metalurgy in the vehicle armour would be considered an item under the Controlled Goods spectrum of items.  The spectrum over which this Act covers is quite broad.  Time to shred and burn all those Lesson Plans you saved on the operation of the C6.  When you retire, you may be required to stick your head into a woodchipper..... >






Reading some of the previous comments, I would say that some would like me to stick my head in one right now.

 

[Occam]

Yup, I just indicated that it was an American NSN to point out that they were the ones who catalogued the item, therefore also the ones responsible for setting the appropriate DMC.  Lots of stuff got caught as being Controlled Goods "by default" - within the last few months, I challenged the US assignment of RG-6/U cable as a Controlled Good.  The fact that this type of cable is commercially available and can be found in any dollar store was not lost on them, and it was easily reassigned to being non-CG.

 

[my72jeep]

I know this is naive but when is someone going to catch on to the absurdity of this and stop it?

 

[Occam]

I know this is naive but when is someone going to catch on to the absurdity of this and stop it?

Well, it's not really absurd.  It may seem that way because you're dealing with a long-obsolete radio that has parts available on eBay because they went to surplus stores long before any of this Controlled Goods legislation came about.  That said, the intent is to keep our technology out of the hands of the bad guys.  CADPAT is a good example; it's a Controlled Good, and is supposed to be destroyed when it reaches end of life.  There are some ways that the real stuff is ending up on civvie street; members selling their own kit, and then signing off a stores loss report, items being diverted at the warehouse level, kit being stolen, etc. 

It's a safe bet that if you were ever to see one of the newer radios on the market, it'd have been stolen as they would never be sold to the general public by a manufacturer.

 

[jimfromDND]

I normally just lurk here occasionally but I felt I needed to chime in so here it is direct from the horses mouth (or insert your favoured body part).  First off there are some admittedly bizarre bits in the domestic regulations; that said it got royal assent and is the law dumb parts and all.  Second we really do have some pretty cool kit and as a group we just don't have that paranoid security gene some countries have so we tend to leak a bit.

I fielded a lot of questions from buddies who collect so while we don't offer formal advice outside the dept (and this is NOT formal advice from CTAT) here are some rough guides for a collector:
Hunt through the ECL Group 2 and find out where your particular passion crosses the line, (like reading QR&Os you need to check the notes; you will find its written really large).  Its not always easy to figure out whether your item really is or isn't included so you have to measure your risk tolerance; how will the judge read it.
Second the RT 524 is definitely still subject to ITAR and also therefore controlled.  We use webflis, the US DOD handy dandy site, to search US NSNs; it is not restricted to DWAN but only shows US NSNs.  In this case the item is listed as DMC F  http://www.dlis.dla.mil/webflis/pub/pub_search.aspx 

If you are going to import something from the States a prudent person would check WebFlis and if their item isn't there actually look at the USML.  It is illegal for you or a US "person" to export anything subject to ITAR from the US without all the DOS paperwork (which you wont likely get as a private collector)  Big US defence companies know the rules the same as GDLS or CAE do here in Canada; the little guys that don't export defence stuff for a living may not.  Unfortunately for the importer it will be the old story of "our mistake your fault" ; from an American perspective you were trying to illegally export stuff off the munitions list.  At a minimum ask the exporter in writing, they are normally more than a bit paranoid about the subject.  I should also note that ICE is a lot more earnest than our CBSA people they train their people to find this stuff.

Once you have your stuff here its doubtful that CGD will bang on your door in the middle of the night; they simply don't have the resources.  They know you are out there but aren't looking for more work.  Tolerance would probably also increase with age, legally there isn't any difference but stuff that is pre 1946 is more likely to be ignored.  Technically there is no cutoff date.  Like many other laws the only time there would be an issue would be when you were already being investigated or had been stopped for something else.

PS CADPAT isn't controlled, we asked and got an actual export ruling because we though it was.  The supply controls on CADPAT are not because of its DMC.

I will monitor these means and reply for a bit here after that there is only one hardick on the dwan and its me.  Like I said no formal advice but I am certainly willing to try and help til it interferes with the daytime job

In any case hope this helps

 

[George Wallace]

Thanks Jim.





We have to stop meeting like this.