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Russia in the 21st Century [Superthread]

Spencer100 said:
Funny.

Honest question. Why the hate for Russia? I get the Putin and team. And I get the historical hate of the USSR and Communism. But I think the West (for lack of a better term) needs a strong Russia something. There is a kingdom out there that does very much covet lands in Russia. Also Russia could be an ally dealing in the Muslim world and Middle East. I think that has been a great mistake of the last 20 years.

How do we get the current Russia to feel safe and secure in their current borders? The world would totally happy to see Russia just stay the size it is. The other options of a China pushing North and West, Turkey going Ottoman v2, and other Muslim area carved off is not a great situation for the world.
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The Russians are doing that to themselves.
I’d love for a western learning Democratic Russia to exist, but the Russians need to fight Putin etc for that.
 
Spencer100 said:
Funny.

Honest question. Why the hate for Russia? I get the Putin and team. And I get the historical hate of the USSR and Communism. But I think the West (for lack of a better term) needs a strong Russia something. There is a kingdom out there that does very much covet lands in Russia. Also Russia could be an ally dealing in the Muslim world and Middle East. I think that has been a great mistake of the last 20 years.

How do we get the current Russia to feel safe and secure in their current borders? The world would totally happy to see Russia just stay the size it is. The other options of a China pushing North and West, Turkey going Ottoman v2, and other Muslim area carved off is not a great situation for the world.
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Thought experiment: Why the hate for Muslims? Why the position that a nation that so blatantly disregards global order should be deferred to, even in cases where wide scale misery and suffering is inflicted by it towards others?
 
At the end of the day, if the people of a country act a certain way, and blindly follow their leaders, they reap what the leader sows.

Hate is a strong word, I don’t know many Russians personally enough to use the term hate. That said I didn’t hate Iraqi or Afghans, even those who sometimes tried to kill me, one doesn’t need to hate someone personally to hate what their country is doing.

Russia is behaving like a bully, that bully is going to take two to the back of the head pretty soon. What happens then is the big question. The West needs to step up faster and harder in Ukraine to hasten the Russian fall, BUT also needs to be ready and wiling to help Russia change after that.
 
Good2Golf said:
Thought experiment: Why the hate for Muslims? Why the position that a nation that so blatantly disregards global order should be deferred to, even in cases where wide scale misery and suffering is inflicted by it towards others?
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Badly worded on my part. Erdogan seems to want the Ottoman Empire 2.0 but your mileage may vary. The Muslim world in the former republics and in Russia have been suppressed for along time. The weakening of Moscow control would create much instability in Central Asia to the Caucasus. The war with Armenia war with Azerbaijan is an example. Also of Turkeys involvement. The "peacekeeping" mission in Kazakhstan just before the Ukrainian invasion was an example of Moscow keeping one of the Stans inline.

My point was if Russia falls apart things start to look very dicey. But maybe it should. I don't know.
 
Interesting follow-on thought would be what would the influence of a more democratic Turkey be, throughout the Caucuses? Perhaps not such a bad thing?
 
Spencer100 said:
The "peacekeeping" mission in Kazakhstan just before the Ukrainian invasion was an example of Moscow keeping one of the Stans inline.
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Is it an example of Russia "keeping one of the Stans inline" or is it an example of Russia supporting friendly authoritarian regimes?
 
This shouldn't be news. The Russians have been at this since the Comintern in 1919. Igor Gouzenko brought a taste of it to Canada in 1945.

Russia has secretly funneled at least $300 million to foreign political parties and candidates in more than two dozen countries since 2014 in an attempt to shape political events beyond its borders, according to a new U.S. intelligence review.
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en.wikipedia.org

Igor Gouzenko - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Well if the videos on the internet are anything to go by I can see why they were hesitant to mobilize. Grabbing people off the street, chaos,
 
Russians I know, call Putin and his cronies the "Pro-West appeasement party". They want a more nationalistic government, ready to defend Russia's interests and not to have massive amount of money and investments in the west.
 
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