Sailors representing the Navy........

[Ex-Dragoon]

Thats pretty unbelieveable, I have been here since '94 and I can't think of any unit that would ever ask someone to lower their personal  standards on dress and deportment. It's just is not done! Some may not enforce those standards as high as they should or like that in other units but dress and deportment are critcal in the image we put out to the public and to each other.

 

[Springroll]

Thats pretty unbelieveable, I have been here since '94 and I can't think of any unit that would ever ask someone to lower their personal  standards on dress and deportment. It's just is not done! Some may not enforce those standards as high as they should or like that in other units but dress and deportment are critcal in the image we put out to the public and to each other.

I agree that it is unbelievable, but it did happen.
Hubby got here Aug'04 and after about 2 weeks of being on ship his MS came up to him and said "You need to stop being so pusser. You are making the rest of us look bad"....and that is an exact quote. It is done alot more than many think, but it just is not spoken about. Hubby's NCD's used to be ironed and creased and now it is pulled out of the dryer so that he can look like everyone else...sad, but true.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Then the MS is not doing his job nor his his/her superiors. Your hubby should have taken it upon himself to start raising the standard of his section, obviously someone has to.

 

[Armymedic]

"You need to stop being so pusser. You are making the rest of us look bad"....and that is an exact quote. It is done alot more than many think, but it just is not spoken about. Hubby's NCD's used to be ironed and creased and now it is pulled out of the dryer so that he can look like everyone else...sad, but true.

Looking up definitions in the word picture book, Army Leadership, and CF Ethics....

Nope, no where does it say that you should set low standards and make no attempt to achieve them.

These are signs of ongoing long term poor morale. There is a problem. Perhaps someone there in Halifax needs to address that.

 

[Springroll]

Then the MS is not doing his job nor his his/her superiors. Your hubby should have taken it upon himself to start raising the standard of his section, obviously someone has to.

We agree 100% with you Ex-Dragoon. He has very poor quality superiors right now, and many are stuck in their ways of having a "relaxed" enviroment, and that becomes very apparent when you see the quality of work some of these guys get away with. Hubby is already trying to raise the standards when it comes to work ethic with the OS and AB's, but him trying to raise the standard of dress will be difficult at this time. Maybe in a few months he will begin to tackle that, but it is not 100% feasible at this point in time for him.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

There is no reason why he cannot go in with a properly turned out uniform. If his subordinates see your hubby is setting a good example with proper attitude, discipline and dress then they will start to emulate him. If he doesn't then he is not helping the situation at all.

 

[Springroll]

There is no reason why he cannot go in with a properly turned out uniform. If his subordinates see your hubby is setting a good example with proper attitude, discipline and dress then they will start to emulate him. If he doesn't then he is not helping the situation at all.

Well he has other very important priorities on his mind right now, so it is not do-able right now.

edited to add: And just for the record, his uniform is NEVER wrinkled in any way, but his creases are not as sharp as they were when he first got here

 

[Torlyn]

I've noticed a few of these things out on the west coast as well...  I know I'm bran-spankin'-new to the whole thing, but after basic you have it firmly ingrained as to the proper way to care for your appearance.  Have us subbies noticed more senior officers with unpolished/poorly polished shoes, or improperly cared for garments (creases, etc)?  Yes.  Do we say anything to them?  No.  What we do, is make sure that no matter what our own kit meets our own high standards.  I want to make sure that whenever I pass a Chief and he's saluting (and I'm trying not to fall over/say the wrong thing/look like a fool), that somewhere in the back of his mind he's thinking "Damn, an officer with shiny shoes, impressive".  Perhaps your hubby could do the same. 

Speaking of which, I need to go work on my oxfords....

T

 

[Springroll]

 Perhaps your hubby could do the same. 
T

Things are very different between the east and west. We know this because we have lived on both coasts.
His boots are always done, hair is clean cut and his face is always clean shaven. The only thing lacking on his uniform are the sharp creases he used to have when we were out west. He was specifically asked not to, and since he was still new to the ship, he listened. When he is wearing his uniform he doesn't look like he just pulled it out of a bag and he is not covered in hair. He is presentable, he just is not to the standards that he grew accustomed to out west because he was told not to be.

When things settle down for him and such, I am sure that he would consider changing things a bit when it comes to the uniforms of those below him. Right now, his concerns are his health and making sure he shows his OS's and AB's what good work ethic is...most of them are slack little buggers that need a mommy behind them to give them a swift kick in the arse. He feels that making sure they are doing their jobs well is more important at this time and is a better way to spend his time then scolding them for uniforms...that will come once they know how to do their jobs and do them well.

Plus, it would be easier for him to tackle if he had the support of those who were MS and above.
The whole "lead by example" expression kind of goes out the window with some of his higher ups.

 

[Inch]

Springroll,

I'm not sure if I understand, how can he be too busy to crease his pants like he used to or keep his standard of dress at a high level? It takes all of 10 minutes to iron and polish boots, I see no reason whatsoever for not turning out looking like the professional soldiers, sailors, and airmen that we are. No one here is saying he should be jacking others up for not having their dress to a high standard, what I've read in the past few posts the opinion is that he should lead by example. Just do it and others will follow.

There's such a thing as an unlawful order, lower your standard of dress isn't a lawful order in my opinion. What are they going to do? Charge him? I'll gladly be the assisting officer for that summary trial.

I show up on parade with my oxfords looking like mirrors, a rarity in the Air Force, guys say I make them look bad, I say "no, you make yourself look bad".

 

[Springroll]

No one here is saying he should be jacking others up for not having their dress to a high standard, what I've read in the past few posts the opinion is that he should lead by example. Just do it and others will follow.

We agree, but the last thing he needs to deal with right now is to be on the bad books with his bosses. With the bosses he has right now, it doesn't take much.

 

[Inch]

We agree, but the last thing he needs to deal with right now is to be on the bad books with his bosses. With the bosses he has right now, it doesn't take much.

Nonsense, that has got to be the worst reason I've ever heard for having a low standard of Dress and Deportment. That's what a chain of command is for, take it up to the CO if need be, that's total BS to be in the "bad books" for good Dress and Deportment.

 

[Springroll]

Nonsense, that has got to be the worst reason I've ever heard for having a low standard of Dress and Deportment. That's what a chain of command is for, take it up to the CO if need be, that's total BS to be in the "bad books" for good Dress and Deportment.

His standard is not considered low, just not as high as it was out west.
It is also not a BS reason. If you had something more serious to worry about, this would be the last type of battle you would want to be in.
It also depends on your chain of command...my husband happens to have a bunch of losers for bosses...the type that will do anything to make you look like crap or will take credit for something they did not do just to try and look better.

As it stands right now, hubby's uniform is not in sloppy condition. Boots are polished or blackened, depending on which ones he is wearing, clothes are clean and wrinkle free and is pet hair free. That is not a low standard.

 

[Inch]

What ship is he on?

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I show up on parade with my oxfords looking like mirrors, a rarity in the Air Force, guys say I make them look bad, I say "no, you make yourself look bad".  

Hear hear well said

That is not a low standard.

Must be for him if he went from immaculate to just above slack.

No COX'N would ever tolerate this type of behaviour.

 

[Springroll]

What ship is he on?

I would love to tell you that, but we are not interested in having any more BS to deal with than what we currently are.
After his surgery, I will give you the ship info if you still want it.

 

[Springroll]

Must be for him if he went from immaculate to just above slack.

You are right, it is a low standard to him, but is still higher than most of the people he works with.

 

[Inch]

I'll echo what Ex-Dragoon said, talk to the Cox'n, rest assured he will not tolerate that kind of behaviour.

 

[spud]

You are right, it is a low standard to him, but is still higher than most of the people he works with.

As usual I will play the jerk, but I have to say that it sounds like your mate may also have a slight case of "inflated self importance". Your posts constantly talk about how slack everybody is under him and all his supervisors are useless, while he is Super Sailor.  Everyone I knew who had this opinion of their entire department was in fact the problem, not the solution. Unless you are at work with him and witnessing the slackness and ineptitude of an entire department perhaps you should stop slagging them.

I'm sure if an entire department was like that, the work wouldn't be getting done, or getting done right, and department heads would be standing tall. I've been out for 10 years, but unless things have changed that much, no CO, XO, Cox'n, or even the Buffer would stand for it.

2nd hand accounts are that. 2nd hand.  I'm not trying to be rude, but I had to say it.

potato

 

[Springroll]

As usual I will play the jerk, but I have to say that it sounds like your mate may also have a slight case of "inflated self importance". Your posts constantly talk about how slack everybody is under him and all his supervisors are useless, while he is Super Sailor.  Everyone I knew who had this opinion of their entire department was in fact the problem, not the solution. Unless you are at work with him and witnessing the slackness and ineptitude of an entire department perhaps you should stop slagging them.

I'm sure if an entire department was like that, the work wouldn't be getting done, or getting done right, and department heads would be standing tall. I've been out for 10 years, but unless things have changed that much, no CO, XO, Cox'n, or even the Buffer would stand for it.

2nd hand accounts are that. 2nd hand.   I'm not trying to be rude, but I had to say it.

potato

He is not super sailor by any means, but he does his job to the best of his ability... and his PDR's reflect that.
I also happen to know a few of his bosses previously and know how they are.
What I have written in here was from my husband's mouth, not mine.  He gets along with those around him, but considering he was used to the west coast method of work, moving out here was a shock for him and he is still adjusting to it almost 18 months later. Maybe the difference is that he is not a partier, and those that he works around are...I also never stated that the entire department was like that.

I agree that the coxn or buffer would not stand for slack behaviour from a section.
I have no control over the way you perceive what I am saying.
and yes, things have changed over the last 10 years.

And with that, lets bring it back onto topic.....