Sailors representing the Navy........

[Jarnhamar]

PDR's reflect that.

I woudn't put too much emphasis on this line of thinking.  I've seen some seriously ****** up individuals get shining PDRs because their bosses simply didn't want to deal with them and/or they were told from higher to rewrite them.  Don't forget bad troops means the spotlight comes on their chain of command too.

I really have to question the wisdom behind comming on public means like this and basically saying everyone above and below whoever are bags of crap.  If my wife did it we'd have some serious issues.

It may be comming right from his mouth and your simply echoing what you're husband is saying but if he feels that strongly about the issue it might be better comming from his mouth directly.  That way when it gets back to his bosses what was said (and it will, this is a small army and even smaller internet community) he can defend what *he* said and not what his wife was saying. It's a matter of professionalisim. Dirty laundry should be aired in his bosses office and not here.

Great post spud, i've seen the same thing.


****Mod edit for language*****

 

[spud]

I also never stated that the entire department was like that.

When his superiors are slack and his supervisors are slack, that doesn't leave much left now does it?

I have no control over the way you perceive what I am saying. and yes, things have changed over the last 10 years.

What hasn't changed over ten years is that a few military members come home and whine to their spouse/partner/housemate/roommate/mommy whatever; they in turn repeat it without giving any thought to whether it is accurate or not. Your story will be like his. One sided.

And with that, lets bring it back onto topic.....

"He has very poor quality superiors right now", "When things settle down for him and such, I am sure that he would consider changing things a bit when it comes to the uniforms of those below him", "Hubby is already trying to raise the standards when it comes to work ethic with the OS and AB's", "most of them are slack little buggers that need a mommy behind them to give them a swift kick in the arse.", "Plus, it would be easier for him to tackle if he had the support of those who were MS and above. The whole "lead by example" expression kind of goes out the window with some of his higher ups."
"but the last thing he needs to deal with right now is to be on the bad books with his bosses. With the bosses he has right now, it doesn't take much.", "It also depends on your chain of command...my husband happens to have a bunch of losers for bosses...the type that will do anything to make you look like crap or will take credit for something they did not do just to try and look better.", "You are right, it is a low standard to him, but is still higher than most of the people he works with.".

Yes that is a ringing endorsement for sure of his shipmates for sure. I'm not getting into a flame war with someone who obviously has no fuel,, but you should think about your point before you post.


potato

p.s. funny, when I was in we tried to stick up for our wingers, not run them down. Guess things have changed. 

 

[Springroll]

p.s. funny, when I was in we tried to stick up for our wingers, not run them down. Guess things have changed. 

This is EXACTLY what happens nowadays...sad but true.

 

[Neill McKay]

he was used to the west coast method of work, moving out here was a shock for him and he is still adjusting to it almost 18 months later.

I would suggest that, if everything you say is so, it may have more to do with the individual ship than the coast.

 

[Springroll]

I would suggest that, if everything you say is so, it may have more to do with the individual ship than the coast.

That could be it too. I had never really considered it being just the ship since I had always heard(yes I know) the east was more "relaxed".

Hubby's ship out west was awesome! They were like a real close family, everyone watched out for each other and helped each other. The CO and buffer were incredible!!! They made it their business to keep informed about their crew members and their families.

Out here, it is almost like they don't give 2 diddly's. Hubby just got a very rare brain diagnosis and none of his co-workers have shown any concern or empathy over this diagnosis, which the only fix for is brain surgery.

I think you are right...it may just be the ship...

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Out here, it is almost like they don't give 2 diddly's. Hubby just got a very rare brain diagnosis and none of his co-workers have shown any concern or empathy over this diagnosis, which the only fix for is brain surgery.

I think you are right...it may just be the ship...

First off...let me say I wish your husband the best during these trying times.

You stated above in a previous post that he gets along with his co-workers but if as you said and they aren't showing any concern/empathy I have to wonder if he has also offended his peers and subordinates with his attiude? As much as I hate to say it, sometimes we make our own beds and with our deeds done we have to lay with the consequences of our actions. Nonetheless, I hope he makes a speedy recovery.

 

[Springroll]

First off...let me say I wish your husband the best during these trying times.

You stated above in a previous post that he gets along with his co-workers but if as you said and they aren't showing any concern/empathy I have to wonder if he has also offended his peers and subordinates with his attiude? As much as I hate to say it, sometimes we make our own beds and with our deeds done we have to lay with the consequences of our actions. Nonetheless, I hope he makes a speedy recovery.

Thank you for your well wishes...it does mean alot.
After I posted, hubby and I chatted about it.
He figures the reason why he isn't getting empathy and such from his co-workers is probably because they have no clue what he is diagnosed with. The diagnosis he got only affects .001% of the world population. In layman's terms, ACM is a condition where part of the brain, the cerebellar tonsils, descend out of the skull and crowd the spinal cord slowly cutting off the curculation of cerebrospinal fluid. If he was diagnosed with brain cancer or something more common, they would probably understand, but since they don't know what to make of it(just like we don't) that is probably why.

Again, thank you for the well wishes, he will appreciate it.

 

[Rhibwolf]

I hope I don’t rain on anyone's east/west parade squares, but having recently moved from East to West, I can honestly say that I have not noticed much of a difference in the quality of Sailor, Sr NCO, or Officer.  Junior ranks go just as far out their way to avoid saluting senior pers out here as they did in Halifax.  The returned salutes from those senior personnel are just as sloppy as they were out east too.  Uniforms are just as sloppy, attitudes just as slovenly, and everyone still expects to slide on Thursday at noon if Friday is a Sunday routine.
That said, both coasts have an equal amount of really pusser people. I have had the honour to work with excellent tradespers, phenomenal leaders and have been under great COs on both coasts. 
What I have noticed is that regardless of where you are, the same problems and the same blessings can be found in equal doses.  Some ships are better than others, and some are just death to your spirit...... but that happens on both coasts.  I think that bad leadership will account for most of the woes, and I applaud the Subbie up higher who headed off to shine his oxfords.  While shoes alone mean nothing, if his (or anyone's) desire to look professional stems from an overall solid approach to being a full, well-rounded professional, that is commendable.  If there are leadership problems, then the above mentioned issues can fester, and if leadership (at any level) does nothing about it, it will not change.  For Springroll, tell your hubby to keep his professional attitude up to his normal spec.  His mates might not like it but perhaps a few of them might begin to pull their own standards up, and I don’t mean just uniforms, I’m talking about the whole thing...  regardless of his rank, he too is a leader.
Is there a difference between east and west? none that I can see, and I don’t think it should be used as an excuse for anything other than the obvious difference of weather, or the formation of units ashore.   
Yours, Aye

 

[Phrontis]

I believe this is first and foremost a leadership issue.  It is certainly important to lead by example and maintain one's own kit and fitness levels at a high standard, but it doesn't end there.  If we don't demand the same of our subordinates, we are granting implicit permission to look like a bag of rags.  I had a CO once who said "If you see something wrong and don't do anything about it, you have just set a new low standard".  Words to live by.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I agree whole heartedly that we should have more pride in our appearance and deportment. Having said that I'm in my fifties now so the bulge is there and pretty natural...I can still do the Express and up until last summer was doing the Army one  (Gagetown 01-05) minus the trench dig as it hadn't yet come in.

Shiny shoes...yeah ok...never been a big advocate of that as a sign of military virtue....I think we should go the American route and get corfams.
I work in the pink palace (S90) in DEU everyday....my uniform is neat and clean, shirt pressed and my hair is cut properly all the time. I return salutes and give salutes proudly and properly and then I sit at a desk all day doing paperwork.
The guys working on ships have to get a little dirtier (lots in many cases) and do some pretty hard physical work sometimes so they are not always going to look like they just stepped off a parade square.
there is no excuse for gross obesity, slovenly attitudes or lackadaisical performance.

I saw a guy at the MIR last month who was a total sack of crap......canex jacket with both epaulets flying in the breeze (he'd taken his rank slip ons off to wear it civie style no doubt and forgot to put them back on)  filthy pants with paint on them and a beret that looked like it got accidentally flushed down the heads.....he was getting his release medical so I figured I'd let it go....good riddance says I. Having said that...as an officer I should have jacked his sorry ass through the roof. My bad.

 

[Phrontis]

The day the CF gets corfams is the day I'll...well, I guess it'll be the day I wear corfams, but I won't like it.

Honestly, it doesn't take that long to press a shirt and shines a pair of shoes.  If we switched to corfams I think it would be saying we just don't care and even the little bit of work polishing represents is too much for us.

 

[Rhibwolf]

In Hoc, I tend to agree with you, that shiny shoes do not a sailor make.  But, you do admit that you do keep to the basic tenets of military custom, i.e. proper adherence to the basics of professionalism and uniformity.  (i admit too, that after 21 years, sometimes my rig could use a bit more TLC, but it still looks good - just not Gung Ho, young Artilleryman good!)
I concur with your statement on obesity! There is no excuse, and listening to fat leaders say, "hey, I'm a (insert title) and i need to be mentally sharp to move paper, fire missiles, type memos, etc." doesn't cut it at all.  These fat excuse making "leaders" set a poor example for their sailors, and when young bloggins expresses an interest in getting fit, his bosses don't cut him the time.  A previous comment was made about it almost being better to be on remedial, so that you can get your gym time on crown time.  Sadly, it tends to be that way.  
I spent a lot of time in the army, and PT was the ONLY priority for the first 90 minutes of the work day.  I hated it, as the unit I was with tended to lack imagination when it came to PT (same 5 K every day, every day, every day).  After I switched to the Navy, I must admit that I missed it, and I made effort and time to make sure that I could get PT done if I wanted to.  Furthermore, I make it abundantly clear that anyone in my dept has full support to do PT during working hours.  
I cant wait to see the official doctrine on PT/Expres Tests that Hillier was talking about! Perhaps we will be able to actually do something as leaders that wont meet with resistance every step of the way.   :threat:

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

For the Navy, I look at it this way. If a sailor makes an effort to shine his shoes/boots press his uniform and get a haircut without needing to be told pays attention to detail more so then those that don't. Sailors that pay attention to detail are more apt to keep themselves and their comrades alive then those that do not.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

For the Navy, I look at it this way. If a sailor makes an effort to shine his shoes/boots press his uniform and get a haircut without needing to be told pays attention to detail more so then those that don't. Sailors that pay attention to detail are more apt to keep themselves and their comrades alive then those that do not.

I agree with what you said about PT too. I cut myself an hour each day...or try to but sometimes the incessant meetings and phone calls short change me. I got myself a bowflex in the new year though and me and my wife are having fun learning how to do that...it's something we can do together so it helps with the home front and the job requirement. And hey maybe she'll get to look like that 50 year old on the commercial and I'll get to look like Arnie...ha ha

As for corfams I think they are great....in the early eighties we wore them on the bridge cause the old RCN mentality of "officers don't wear boots they wear shoes" was in force (we also had to wear DEU shirt and peaked cap...argh) .My feet used to get super cold on those steel decks in the CF oxfords...but the corfams don't' breathe so they kept my feet toasty. And they were always shiny! lol

I always have thought that all that time spent shining shoes was a pain in the butt...and OK if you are army but sailors have better things to do. he he. Like go to PX and buy corfams! lol  ;D