Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
- Thread starter George Wallace
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suffolkowner said:
LAV 6.0 Datasheet:https://www.gdlscanada.com/files/products/LAV-6.0.pdf
LAV 700 Datasheet: https://www.gdlscanada.com/products/LAV/LAV-700.pdf
LAV 700 is taller, longer, wider, but lighter with longer range. It also can come with a bigger gun. Options for RWS with 7.62/50Cal or 30/40MM as well as 90/105MM and 120MM Mortar variants.
daftandbarmy
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PuckChaser said:
Um, like, we should buy that too then, right?
Dale Denton
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My thoughts exactly.
Or, we could do a switcheroo and ship the Saudi's used LAV3s and steal their LAV700s...
But in all seriousness, i'm sure there is a legal way to take some of the remaining 700s, throw some larger weapons up top and use them as IFVs. The 'hope' is that GDLS-C is handed contracts to keep jobs, with the benefit of gaining newer LAV700s.
On another note, was there ever any interest in building a more LAV-centric Army? Have almost all LAV variants in the fleet in one way or another? It looks like it has the magic 3: built locally, already in use, and already Canadianized.
Or, we could do a switcheroo and ship the Saudi's used LAV3s and steal their LAV700s...
But in all seriousness, i'm sure there is a legal way to take some of the remaining 700s, throw some larger weapons up top and use them as IFVs. The 'hope' is that GDLS-C is handed contracts to keep jobs, with the benefit of gaining newer LAV700s.
On another note, was there ever any interest in building a more LAV-centric Army? Have almost all LAV variants in the fleet in one way or another? It looks like it has the magic 3: built locally, already in use, and already Canadianized.
Jarnhamar
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We could always let it slip that the workers working on the LAVs are Jewish. Saudi Arabia won't want touch them and will cancel the contract. We'll get to keep the LAVs we made still in Canada AND we hit them with the contract cancelation fee.
Maybe offer to buy the LAVs over there at a very reduced price.
I'm a genius, Trudeau can fire his $1200 a day aide and hire me.
Maybe offer to buy the LAVs over there at a very reduced price.
I'm a genius, Trudeau can fire his $1200 a day aide and hire me.
IMHO the CAF's shouldn't expect anything if JT cancels the Saudi contract.
GDLS will simply move Saudi LAV production to the states.
GDLS & Canada lose credibility buy not fulfilling the contract.
GDLS may consider closing down Canadian LAV production entirely.
Canada out 1 billion in cancelation fees.
GDLS will simply move Saudi LAV production to the states.
GDLS & Canada lose credibility buy not fulfilling the contract.
GDLS may consider closing down Canadian LAV production entirely.
Canada out 1 billion in cancelation fees.
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PuckChaser said:
Hahahaha.
Maybe we will even get a LAV 12 MEWT!!! Any bets?
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Probably with the same crappy gear managed by Cold War dinosaurs who cant spell SDR.standingdown said:
MilEME09
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LoboCanada said:
Back in the mid 2000s before realizing we still needed tanks, there was a plan for the Armoured Troop of the future to be 2 x Lav 3 105mm MGSs, 2 x Lav 3 TUA, 2 x Lav 3 MMEV. Still have the article from CDR interviewing a few officials about the plan. If we wanted to, we could have a full mechanized force using LAV 6 platforms, mortor carriers, ambulances, SPA, SPAA, recovery. GDLS already makes these varients and more. We could have a very "light", mobile mechanized force capable of self sustainment and all around defensive amd offensive operations.
daftandbarmy
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MilEME09 said:
But will there be a 'Chimera'?
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If there is a $1 Billion cancellation clause, and you currently owe $1.8 Billion........
http://nationalpost.pressreader.com/national-post-latest-edition/20181220
Saudis now $1.8B behind on bill for AVs - NP - 20 Dec 18
Payment delays date to regime change
LONDON, ONT. • Saudi Arabia has fallen behind in making payments on its $15-billion arms deal with Canada, a contract that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said he’s looking for ways to halt. The Saudi government was short $1.8 billion in payments to the end of September for light-armoured vehicles assembled at General Dynamics Land Systems Canada (GDLS) in London, according to financial statements from the Canadian Commercial Corp., the Crown corporation overseeing the controversial contract. “It is a problem. There is concern, absolutely,” a federal official with knowledge of the agreement told The London Free Press on Wednesday.
The arrears can be traced to a new regime in Saudi Arabia since the agreement was signed in 2014, and there have been delays in payments since the change, said the official, who declined to be identified. “That changed the way everything worked, including payments,” he said. However, since September the oil-rich country has been making payments and has reduced the amount owed, the official added.
The deal, which the Liberals are under pressure to scuttle amid Saudi human rights abuses, including the slaying of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi at the country’s consulate in Turkey, affects thousands of workers in the London area and in a supply chain that extends nationwide. Trudeau, whose government inherited the deal from former prime minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives, said publicly this week for the first time that the Liberals are trying to find a way to stop the sale involving hundreds of light armoured military vehicles built by the Canadian division of American defence giant General Dynamics.
The report by the Crown corporation handling the sale says “trade receivables” are short $1.86 billion as of quarterly statements ending Sept. 30, and that payments have been sparse over the course of about one year. “The significant increase in past due trade receivables, is mostly attributable to the ABP contract,” the report says, referring to the armoured brigades program.
The payment issue hasn’t been helped by recent public musings by Trudeau, who on Sunday told CTV’s Question Period the government is looking for a way to halt the sale. “We are engaged with the export permits to try and see if there is a way of no longer exporting these vehicles to Saudi Arabia,” he said, without being specific. Such a move would devastate GDLS Canada’s 1,800-member workforce in London, as well as thousands of jobs with supplier companies, said David Perry, a senior analyst with the Canadian Global Affairs Institute think-tank.
The Saudis may now feel even less inclined to write a cheque, he added. “It does not give the Saudis a reason to catch up on payments. The government of Canada is responsible for making sure GDLS gets paid for the work it has done,” said Perry.
http://nationalpost.pressreader.com/national-post-latest-edition/20181220
Saudis now $1.8B behind on bill for AVs - NP - 20 Dec 18
Payment delays date to regime change
LONDON, ONT. • Saudi Arabia has fallen behind in making payments on its $15-billion arms deal with Canada, a contract that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said he’s looking for ways to halt. The Saudi government was short $1.8 billion in payments to the end of September for light-armoured vehicles assembled at General Dynamics Land Systems Canada (GDLS) in London, according to financial statements from the Canadian Commercial Corp., the Crown corporation overseeing the controversial contract. “It is a problem. There is concern, absolutely,” a federal official with knowledge of the agreement told The London Free Press on Wednesday.
The arrears can be traced to a new regime in Saudi Arabia since the agreement was signed in 2014, and there have been delays in payments since the change, said the official, who declined to be identified. “That changed the way everything worked, including payments,” he said. However, since September the oil-rich country has been making payments and has reduced the amount owed, the official added.
The deal, which the Liberals are under pressure to scuttle amid Saudi human rights abuses, including the slaying of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi at the country’s consulate in Turkey, affects thousands of workers in the London area and in a supply chain that extends nationwide. Trudeau, whose government inherited the deal from former prime minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives, said publicly this week for the first time that the Liberals are trying to find a way to stop the sale involving hundreds of light armoured military vehicles built by the Canadian division of American defence giant General Dynamics.
The report by the Crown corporation handling the sale says “trade receivables” are short $1.86 billion as of quarterly statements ending Sept. 30, and that payments have been sparse over the course of about one year. “The significant increase in past due trade receivables, is mostly attributable to the ABP contract,” the report says, referring to the armoured brigades program.
The payment issue hasn’t been helped by recent public musings by Trudeau, who on Sunday told CTV’s Question Period the government is looking for a way to halt the sale. “We are engaged with the export permits to try and see if there is a way of no longer exporting these vehicles to Saudi Arabia,” he said, without being specific. Such a move would devastate GDLS Canada’s 1,800-member workforce in London, as well as thousands of jobs with supplier companies, said David Perry, a senior analyst with the Canadian Global Affairs Institute think-tank.
The Saudis may now feel even less inclined to write a cheque, he added. “It does not give the Saudis a reason to catch up on payments. The government of Canada is responsible for making sure GDLS gets paid for the work it has done,” said Perry.
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PuckChaser said:
Thanks for the links/info.
Going forward would we continue with the LAV 6 or is the LAV 700 an improvement, looking at a Bison/M113 replacement?
Why would one use a 6 vs 700, do they each have their own niche?
In my former life of buying equipment, we just bought equipment every year and never had a strict fleet profile even if it might have been desired Even sticking with a manufacturer/model over 5-10 years there would or could be considerable differences. I mention this because the various micro fleets have been disparaged on here many times and am wondering if having LAV 6's and 700's would be that much of a handicap?
Colin Parkinson
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Could reconfigure some to indirect and direct fire support
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The cheque is in the mail: Saudi Arabia is $2.5B US in arrears in payments for LAVs built in Canada.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/saudi-arabia-lav-canada-armoured-vehicles-1.5340087
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/saudi-arabia-lav-canada-armoured-vehicles-1.5340087
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dapaterson said:
They aren't going to pay someone who is giving them poor customer service. Just saying :nod:
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How about some free oil in barter??
Humphrey Bogart said:
How is it poor customer service? (Honest question.)
They order X number of vehicles.
X number of vehicles costs Y number of dollars.
They pay money, they receive vehicles.
How on earth do we ship them $2.5B of vehicles that aren't even paid for?
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CBH99 said:
Ehmmm, where have you been the last few years?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4935735
The Government of Canada brought tonnes of heat and light down on their business partner. The Saudis expected to be given their vehicles and left to their own devices and we couldn't do it so now they aren't paying us.
The nature of the deal is KSA pays GoC who in turn pays GDLS. If GoC doesn't get paid by KSA, GDLS is still owed money; therefore, GoC has to pay GDLS because jobs, jobs, jobs!
It's all about leverage and demonstrating just whom exactly is pulling the strings. Why are Canadians so bloody Naive?
Whatever you think of the Saudis, one thing they are not is stupid. Most of KSA Royal Family have been educated at the top Ivy League and International Business Colleges in the World. They understand Grand Strategy.
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