Scalding Hot Water

[army]

Posted by Ian Edwards <[email protected]> on Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:50:04 -0700
A friend of mine told me recently that he once met a vet who had
served in the British Indian Army, circa 1930s, on India‘s North West
Frontier. The vet told my friend that in his day they used to clean
their Lee Enfield rifles with scalding hot water. They would plug one
end of the barrel and pour the water in the other end. The story ends
with perhaps a bit of hyperbole in that the used water was poured back
out for brewing their tea because water was scarce or made the tea
taste better?.
Forgetting the tea aspect: another friend, hearing this second hand
story, advised that he was once in the air element sic circa 1970 and
they used the hot water technique to clean the cannons on fighter
planes. I wonder if my leg was being pulled?. The air guy, who is a
bit of an armourer himself, said that this is also done in the Artillery
after all their guns are just big rifles, more or less.
The theory seems to be that the hot water enables the carbon to be
sweated-out out of the pores in the metal of the rifle.
My questions to any "gun plumbers" in the audience are:
a does this make any sense?
b are there any metallurgical or other differences between the barrels
of the Lee-Enfield and the FN C1/C2 and the current C7 M16s for the
Yanks that would make this practice impractical with newer weapons?
Let‘s assume that after the ‘bath‘ one would still need to run a 4 by 2
and a pullthrough thru the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by the
same procedure to put a light film of oil on the metal.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "William J <andy> Anderson" <[email protected]> on Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:16:30 -0700
on 30/10/00 9:50, Ian Edwards at [email protected] wrote:
> Let‘s assume that after the ‘bath‘ one would still need to run a 4 by 2
> and a pullthrough thru the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by the
> same procedure to put a light film of oil on the metal.
Hot water...hotter the better, was the ‘tool of choice‘ for removing carbon
from barrels in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s. As you stated a good coating
of oil afterwards was indeed required. Lots of junk would ‘sweat‘ out of the
barrels and another cleaning was required the second day after use.
In my opinion, better cleaning materials made using hot water an obsolete
practice.
arte et marte
anderson sends:
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by [email protected] Mike Oleary on Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:23:57 -0500
I first learned as a Reserve mortarman that the best way to clean the 81mm
mortar barrels was to have one soldier, in full rain gear, get in the shower
room and run the hottest possible water through the barrels with the breech
plug removed. This, alternated with scrubbing with hessian sandbags, was
the fastest and most efficient means to clean out a day‘s worth of crud that
swabbing between missions did not clear. By the end of the process the
barrels were also hot enough to ensure the remaining water evaporated from
their surfaces before a final coat of oil was applied.
Mike
The Regimental Rogue
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com
2001 Canadian Military History Calendar
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Edwards
To:
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:50 AM
Subject: Scalding Hot Water
> A friend of mine told me recently that he once met a vet who had
> served in the British Indian Army, circa 1930s, on India‘s North West
> Frontier. The vet told my friend that in his day they used to clean
> their Lee Enfield rifles with scalding hot water. They would plug one
> end of the barrel and pour the water in the other end. The story ends
> with perhaps a bit of hyperbole in that the used water was poured back
> out for brewing their tea because water was scarce or made the tea
> taste better?.
>
> Forgetting the tea aspect: another friend, hearing this second hand
> story, advised that he was once in the air element sic circa 1970 and
> they used the hot water technique to clean the cannons on fighter
> planes. I wonder if my leg was being pulled?. The air guy, who is a
> bit of an armourer himself, said that this is also done in the Artillery
> after all their guns are just big rifles, more or less.
>
> The theory seems to be that the hot water enables the carbon to be
> sweated-out out of the pores in the metal of the rifle.
>
> My questions to any "gun plumbers" in the audience are:
> a does this make any sense?
> b are there any metallurgical or other differences between the barrels
> of the Lee-Enfield and the FN C1/C2 and the current C7 M16s for the
> Yanks that would make this practice impractical with newer weapons?
>
> Let‘s assume that after the ‘bath‘ one would still need to run a 4 by 2
> and a pullthrough thru the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by the
> same procedure to put a light film of oil on the metal.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Bruce Williams" <[email protected]> on Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:32:35 -0600
> A friend of mine told me recently that he once met a vet who had
> served in the British Indian Army, circa 1930s, on India‘s North West
> Frontier. The vet told my friend that in his day they used to clean
> their Lee Enfield rifles with scalding hot water.
I believe that tis was done when the rifle was first issued as the barrel
was plugged with grease...cosmoline? The idea being that if it was full of
grease there was no way it would rust.
I remember friends who went to Germany as augmentation in the late 60‘s or
early 70‘s saying that they took the FN C1‘s the were isssued into the
shower to degrease them.
Once degreased then a thourough cleaning and oiling would have to be done.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Gow" <[email protected]> on Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:01:39 -0500
The story‘s true, Ian. In WWI, the accepted method of cleaning was boiling
water, followed by 4x2 and light oiling.
Metallurgicly, I can‘t answer that one.
Maybe someone else. I expect the metal is different lighter weight, higher
tensile, but I don‘t have anything difinitive.
Another old, but expensive and ecologically unsound method is running pure
mercury through the barrel.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:50 AM
Subject: Scalding Hot Water
> A friend of mine told me recently that he once met a vet who had
> served in the British Indian Army, circa 1930s, on India‘s North West
> Frontier. The vet told my friend that in his day they used to clean
> their Lee Enfield rifles with scalding hot water. They would plug one
> end of the barrel and pour the water in the other end. The story ends
> with perhaps a bit of hyperbole in that the used water was poured back
> out for brewing their tea because water was scarce or made the tea
> taste better?.
>
> Forgetting the tea aspect: another friend, hearing this second hand
> story, advised that he was once in the air element sic circa 1970 and
> they used the hot water technique to clean the cannons on fighter
> planes. I wonder if my leg was being pulled?. The air guy, who is a
> bit of an armourer himself, said that this is also done in the Artillery
> after all their guns are just big rifles, more or less.
>
> The theory seems to be that the hot water enables the carbon to be
> sweated-out out of the pores in the metal of the rifle.
>
> My questions to any "gun plumbers" in the audience are:
> a does this make any sense?
> b are there any metallurgical or other differences between the barrels
> of the Lee-Enfield and the FN C1/C2 and the current C7 M16s for the
> Yanks that would make this practice impractical with newer weapons?
>
> Let‘s assume that after the ‘bath‘ one would still need to run a 4 by 2
> and a pullthrough thru the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by the
> same procedure to put a light film of oil on the metal.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to [email protected] from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <[email protected]> on Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:21:16 -0700
We used to use hot water to clean 105 barrels. It often depended on the
preferences of the No 1s, the BSM, and even AIGs at the school, but yes, I
have done it. I also, on a separate note, remember throwing FN C1s in
barrels of varsol and oil, after exercises, then cleaning them, after the
guns got cleaned.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 9:50 AM
Subject: Scalding Hot Water
> A friend of mine told me recently that he once met a vet who had
> served in the British Indian Army, circa 1930s, on India‘s North West
> Frontier. The vet told my friend that in his day they used to clean
> their Lee Enfield rifles with scalding hot water. They would plug one
> end of the barrel and pour the water in the other end. The story ends
> with perhaps a bit of hyperbole in that the used water was poured back
> out for brewing their tea because water was scarce or made the tea
> taste better?.
>
> Forgetting the tea aspect: another friend, hearing this second hand
> story, advised that he was once in the air element sic circa 1970 and
> they used the hot water technique to clean the cannons on fighter
> planes. I wonder if my leg was being pulled?. The air guy, who is a
> bit of an armourer himself, said that this is also done in the Artillery
> after all their guns are just big rifles, more or less.
>
> The theory seems to be that the hot water enables the carbon to be
> sweated-out out of the pores in the metal of the rifle.
>
> My questions to any "gun plumbers" in the audience are:
> a does this make any sense?
> b are there any metallurgical or other differences between the barrels
> of the Lee-Enfield and the FN C1/C2 and the current C7 M16s for the
> Yanks that would make this practice impractical with newer weapons?
>
> Let‘s assume that after the ‘bath‘ one would still need to run a 4 by 2
> and a pullthrough thru the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by the
> same procedure to put a light film of oil on the metal.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to [email protected] from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <[email protected]> on Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:24:08 -0700
I think I remember reading, in civvy gun magazines, that M16 C7 barrels
are chrome lined. I may be wrong
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gow"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Scalding Hot Water
> The story‘s true, Ian. In WWI, the accepted method of cleaning was
boiling
> water, followed by 4x2 and light oiling.
>
> Metallurgicly, I can‘t answer that one.
>
> Maybe someone else. I expect the metal is different lighter weight,
higher
> tensile, but I don‘t have anything difinitive.
>
> Another old, but expensive and ecologically unsound method is running pure
> mercury through the barrel.
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:50 AM
> Subject: Scalding Hot Water
>
>
> > A friend of mine told me recently that he once met a vet who had
> > served in the British Indian Army, circa 1930s, on India‘s North West
> > Frontier. The vet told my friend that in his day they used to clean
> > their Lee Enfield rifles with scalding hot water. They would plug one
> > end of the barrel and pour the water in the other end. The story ends
> > with perhaps a bit of hyperbole in that the used water was poured back
> > out for brewing their tea because water was scarce or made the tea
> > taste better?.
> >
> > Forgetting the tea aspect: another friend, hearing this second hand
> > story, advised that he was once in the air element sic circa 1970 and
> > they used the hot water technique to clean the cannons on fighter
> > planes. I wonder if my leg was being pulled?. The air guy, who is a
> > bit of an armourer himself, said that this is also done in the Artillery
> > after all their guns are just big rifles, more or less.
> >
> > The theory seems to be that the hot water enables the carbon to be
> > sweated-out out of the pores in the metal of the rifle.
> >
> > My questions to any "gun plumbers" in the audience are:
> > a does this make any sense?
> > b are there any metallurgical or other differences between the barrels
> > of the Lee-Enfield and the FN C1/C2 and the current C7 M16s for the
> > Yanks that would make this practice impractical with newer weapons?
> >
> > Let‘s assume that after the ‘bath‘ one would still need to run a 4 by 2
> > and a pullthrough thru the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by the
> > same procedure to put a light film of oil on the metal.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to [email protected] from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to [email protected] from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Gow" <[email protected]> on Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:52:52 -0500
I got kind opf interested on this point and went digging through the net for
info on M16 barrels.
Turns out you are correct the current production M16 barrel is the lightest
barrel made, and both barrel and chamber is chromium lined.
Going back to the original question, then:
The original Lee Metford rifles had a new rifling in them that gave accuracy
and to some extent "cleanability" to them to a pre-cordite munition.
The subsequent Lee Enfield marks abandoned the rifling as they used a
cordite propellant round. As has been pointed out,these were in fact
cleaned with boiling water, followed with oil.
However, part of the principle of their design was the ability o mass
produce them, and since, of the day, light weight high tensile steel barrels
were impractical to manufacture in a hurry, heavier barreled mild steel was
used.
Late twentieth century technique allowed for high tensile steel, and as in
this case, chrome linin, or stainless barrels.
Without regard, none would be damaged by immersion in scalding or boiling
water, povided they were dried and oiled.
Its is correct, too, that the method of removing Cosmoline that our FNC1‘s
were packed involved either boiling water environmentally unsound, o
varsol and a LOT of scrubbing.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "The MacFarlanes‘"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: Scalding Hot Water
> I think I remember reading, in civvy gun magazines, that M16 C7 barrels
> are chrome lined. I may be wrong
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gow"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Scalding Hot Water
>
>
> > The story‘s true, Ian. In WWI, the accepted method of cleaning was
> boiling
> > water, followed by 4x2 and light oiling.
> >
> > Metallurgicly, I can‘t answer that one.
> >
> > Maybe someone else. I expect the metal is different lighter weight,
> higher
> > tensile, but I don‘t have anything difinitive.
> >
> > Another old, but expensive and ecologically unsound method is running
pure
> > mercury through the barrel.
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ian Edwards"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:50 AM
> > Subject: Scalding Hot Water
> >
> >
> > > A friend of mine told me recently that he once met a vet who had
> > > served in the British Indian Army, circa 1930s, on India‘s North West
> > > Frontier. The vet told my friend that in his day they used to clean
> > > their Lee Enfield rifles with scalding hot water. They would plug one
> > > end of the barrel and pour the water in the other end. The story ends
> > > with perhaps a bit of hyperbole in that the used water was poured back
> > > out for brewing their tea because water was scarce or made the tea
> > > taste better?.
> > >
> > > Forgetting the tea aspect: another friend, hearing this second hand
> > > story, advised that he was once in the air element sic circa 1970
and
> > > they used the hot water technique to clean the cannons on fighter
> > > planes. I wonder if my leg was being pulled?. The air guy, who is a
> > > bit of an armourer himself, said that this is also done in the
Artillery
> > > after all their guns are just big rifles, more or less.
> > >
> > > The theory seems to be that the hot water enables the carbon to be
> > > sweated-out out of the pores in the metal of the rifle.
> > >
> > > My questions to any "gun plumbers" in the audience are:
> > > a does this make any sense?
> > > b are there any metallurgical or other differences between the
barrels
> > > of the Lee-Enfield and the FN C1/C2 and the current C7 M16s for the
> > > Yanks that would make this practice impractical with newer weapons?
> > >
> > > Let‘s assume that after the ‘bath‘ one would still need to run a 4 by
2
> > > and a pullthrough thru the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by the
> > > same procedure to put a light film of oil on the metal.
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to [email protected] from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to [email protected] from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to [email protected] from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "C.M. Crawford" <[email protected]> on Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:41:03 EST
We still clean our c7‘s with hot water, it the fastest way to get the dirt
and carbon off. a light coat of oil is needed after to prevent rusting and
to restor the colour , after using water or wd-40 the wepon tend to take on
a grey colour . You wont find this practice in any CF documents because if
the wepon is improperly oiled or left dry it will reduce the life of the
wepon. Hot water is the only way I know of that gets all the dirt and dust
out the the triger mech, and it saves a lot of time when cleaning the c9 and
c6.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Donald Schepens" <[email protected]> on Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:26:57 -0700
Just thinking about it, didn‘t we use boiling water to clean SMGs? I seem
to remember that.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gow
To:
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Scalding Hot Water
> The story‘s true, Ian. In WWI, the accepted method of cleaning was
boiling
> water, followed by 4x2 and light oiling.
>
> Metallurgicly, I can‘t answer that one.
>
> Maybe someone else. I expect the metal is different lighter weight,
higher
> tensile, but I don‘t have anything difinitive.
>
> Another old, but expensive and ecologically unsound method is running pure
> mercury through the barrel.
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:50 AM
> Subject: Scalding Hot Water
>
>
> > A friend of mine told me recently that he once met a vet who had
> > served in the British Indian Army, circa 1930s, on India‘s North West
> > Frontier. The vet told my friend that in his day they used to clean
> > their Lee Enfield rifles with scalding hot water. They would plug one
> > end of the barrel and pour the water in the other end. The story ends
> > with perhaps a bit of hyperbole in that the used water was poured back
> > out for brewing their tea because water was scarce or made the tea
> > taste better?.
> >
> > Forgetting the tea aspect: another friend, hearing this second hand
> > story, advised that he was once in the air element sic circa 1970 and
> > they used the hot water technique to clean the cannons on fighter
> > planes. I wonder if my leg was being pulled?. The air guy, who is a
> > bit of an armourer himself, said that this is also done in the Artillery
> > after all their guns are just big rifles, more or less.
> >
> > The theory seems to be that the hot water enables the carbon to be
> > sweated-out out of the pores in the metal of the rifle.
> >
> > My questions to any "gun plumbers" in the audience are:
> > a does this make any sense?
> > b are there any metallurgical or other differences between the barrels
> > of the Lee-Enfield and the FN C1/C2 and the current C7 M16s for the
> > Yanks that would make this practice impractical with newer weapons?
> >
> > Let‘s assume that after the ‘bath‘ one would still need to run a 4 by 2
> > and a pullthrough thru the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by the
> > same procedure to put a light film of oil on the metal.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to [email protected] from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to [email protected] from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <[email protected]> on Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:48:38 EST
Yes C7A1 barrels are chromed to minimize wear.
Matt S
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <[email protected]> on Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:48:46 EST
>Hot water is the only way I know of that gets all the >dirt and dust out
>the the triger mech, and it saves a >lot of time when cleaning the c9 and
>c6.
You can always try just taking the trigger mech apart. Same goes for the
feed cover on the guns.
Matt S
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "C.M. Crawford" <[email protected]> on Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:52:42 EST
well we all cant be wepons techs , the triger mech is a little complex and
if it is disasembled it can lead to fines or charges. all CF pam I have read
states that after the detailed strip the wepon will not be striped further .
However if you know how to do it then taking the triger mech apart is the
way to go.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Gow" <[email protected]> on Wed, 1 Nov 2000 00:48:25 -0500
There‘s another problem here, maybe we can run up some comments...
Go back about 20-25 years, and our unit had a range weekend with the
redoubtable FNC1.
The major running the Ex wanted the men to do some instinctive shooting
midwinter on a standard 1000m range, by means of a walkdown.
At the same time, or perhaps a better word would be "era", we held more
weapons in our Armoury than we had warm bodies some things stay constant!,
and so some weapons did not get used. Since such was the case, it was hard
to get them cleaned either, and, if you were a QM type, faced with weapons
inspections and your CO‘s wrath if the IG staff found weapons rusting, dry
etc etc. why not issue "odd" weapons for a live fire?
In and of the same date, it was technically, if not practically illegal for
a soldier to strip a breechblock or a trigger group without the personal
supervision of a qualified weapons tech and/or a Sr NCO.
To cut to the chase, the Major wanted to exhibit accuracy, or absence there
of, in firing the FNC1 from the hip. One man‘s weapon‘s breechblock jammed
on what was after shown to be rust from absence of care and cleaning in
the forward position. As a result, before the action was in the locked
position, the firing pin struck the primer, and the round functioned with
the FN action trying to be an SMG action...bad news, its not a blow back
action! ie it must fully lock
The immediate result was that the recoil impelled forces to the weapon frame
that ripped the rear sght assembly off, fortunately between the young mans
arm and torso, rather than his eye and nose if later doctrine was
followed and sent it thru the snowbank 15 meters rearward and into God
knows what depth of sand.
The Battalion spent some considerable time in the weeks that followed in
stripping and cleaning and training Ptes and Cpls on servicing the
breechblocks and trigger mechanisms of our weapons after that date to
prevent a recurrance.
Also subsequent to this episode, I trained a class of recruits in weapons
stripping and assembly, while being assessed as an instructor by a Reg MCpl,
who subsequently went to the highest enlisted rank, as a Reg. He
remonstrated with me that I advocated that weapons parts exchange
cannibilization was possible and practical. I pointed out that we had no
Wpn Techs locally available that this was what Wpns Techs did anyway and
finally, that having a defect in your weapon did not absolve you from fixing
it by any means fair or foul. You can all beat me up on whether the
philosophy is right or wrong, but I must say he found some reason logic in
my concept.
Be all the history as it may, I must say that from the hearsay knowledge I
have of it, the current rifle has a number of liabilities.
Would anyone care to defend the wondrous number of "accidental discharges"
that occur on ranges, and numerous other places? A close friend and serving
CWO was charged, he told me, with "accidental discharge on the range".
CWO‘s don‘t often get charged! In my ignorance, knowing and respecting
his care and knowledge of weapons, I asked, irreverantly, if he pissed his
pants...Which is when he gave me a somewhat learned discourse on the topic
of the new rifle, and the DND attitude of blame it on the soldier, rather
than accept, address, and fix the problem.
Now to return to "scalding water", if this works with mortars, artillery
rifles, presumably naval cannon and air weaponry, why is it not authorised
for the rifles the grunts carry?
You might note that the AR15/M16 was originally marketed as a weapon that
did not require cleaning and this was gloriously disproven..perhaps the
chairborne are still of that opinion?
Would that it could be people of the field that have experienced the mud,
sand, snow, ice, sweating, carbon and all the other calamities of the
personal weapon were the ones that gave some sort of informed opinion of
what required cleaning, and what did not! Or would offer some written
doctrine of why the soldier that carried it could not be trained to fully
service his own weapon...
Okay, once again I‘ve opened myself up, so let loose and answer, such as ye
may!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "C.M. Crawford"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: Scalding Hot Water
> well we all cant be wepons techs , the triger mech is a little complex and
> if it is disasembled it can lead to fines or charges. all CF pam I have
read
> states that after the detailed strip the wepon will not be striped further
.
> However if you know how to do it then taking the triger mech apart is the
> way to go.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to [email protected] from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <[email protected]> on Wed, 01 Nov 2000 10:05:09 EST
You don‘t have to be a wpns tech. Just talk to one of the Snr Cpl‘s or
Mcpl‘s in your unit. I‘m sure they could show you how to strip it. It‘s
really not that tough. And by the way, the CF pam also states not to use
any corrosive materials on the C7, but WD40 or engine carbon cleaners are
still widely used. It saved me hours of cleaning.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.

 

[army]

Posted by [email protected] on Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:46:44 EST
After coming in from patrol or field exercise, we used to take out M-16s in
the shower with us, followed up by the light coat of LSA pre-silicone days.
Always ran a rod w/ patches down the barrel afterward. Great cleaning
method? Naw, but it appealed to our lazy side!
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to [email protected] from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.