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School Girls Have Acid Thrown On Them- Do Some Still Doubt Why We Are There?

The latest, from the President of Afghanistan, regarding the possible fate of the guilty....
.... (President Karzai) said at the time (public execution) was not something he would support. But at the weekend he told reporters he would consider public executions for those behind an acid attack on schoolgirls in the southern city of Kandahar last week.  If advised by the Supreme Court and religious clerics, “I will accept public execution so people can see those who have carried out such barbaric acts … are executed in front of the world’s eyes,” he said. ....
 
Nox Vulpes said:
I hope you are not serious. It does not matter how badly they have acted, we must maintain our dignity and our honour through upholding what is truly "Canadian". We cannot bring change to a country if we resort to using the same types of methods used before the intervention. If we lower ourselves to fighting on their level, then they have already won. We must take the high ground and do what is right. Not to be motivated by anger or hatred, by vengeance or vendetta. Just because they do unto us or those we swear to protect, does not give us the right to do the same unto them. If guilty, they should be brought to justice and punished. But with appropriate, civilized methods. Not with barbarism. That is what Canada was founded on, and that's what the men and women of the Canadian Forces swear to uphold every day.

Like I said, I hope you are not serious. Otherwise you may have just a sick and twisted mind as the Taliban you claim to hate so much.

Well, kid.  Don't worry.  I'm not about to go screaming throughout the country next spring with an axe over my head when I deploy there again.

Of course you cannot flay these cowards as I suggest.  We are civilized here, and as OldSolduer pointed out many of us, including myself, do have substancial time in service.  We're professionals, and behave as such.  If these vermin are to be punished that belongs to the Afghan people, not us.

Besides, we are speaking of religious zealots, and this would not faze them.  Is it language they would understand ? Yes, I believe so.  But not PC.  General "Blackjack" Pershing's standing punishment would be more effective, but again not PC.

I sort of remember being 16.  Thought my old man was dumber than two sacks of hammers.  And the world was black and white, No shades of grey   Boy, was I wrong.  When you become an adult you learn [unless mentally ill] not to act on your inside voice rants, rages and fantasies.

No offence taken, but live a little first before you get too high on the pulpit.  And as OWDU pointed out, you are also guilty as charged too I see.  Let He who is without sin cast the first stone.

OS, FE, OWDU thanks for the support.  No offence this end.  Thick skin, head too...
 
jollyjacktar said:
Well, kid.  Don't worry.  I'm not about to go screaming throughout the country next spring with an axe over my head when I deploy there again.

Of course you cannot flay these cowards as I suggest.  We are civilized here, and as OldSolduer pointed out many of us, including myself, do have substancial time in service.  We're professionals, and behave as such.  If these vermin are to be punished that belongs to the Afghan people, not us.

Besides, we are speaking of religious zealots, and this would not faze them.  Is it language they would understand ? Yes, I believe so.  But not PC.  General "Blackjack" Pershing's standing punishment would be more effective, but again not PC.

I sort of remember being 16.  Thought my old man was dumber than two sacks of hammers.  And the world was black and white, No shades of grey   Boy, was I wrong.  When you become an adult you learn [unless mentally ill] not to act on your inside voice rants, rages and fantasies.

No offence taken, but live a little first before you get too high on the pulpit.  And as OWDU pointed out, you are also guilty as charged too I see.  Let He who is without sin cast the first stone.

OS, FE, OWDU thanks for the support.  No offence this end.  Thick skin, head too...

Thick head,....well you are  a sailor! ;)
 
Nox Vulpes said:
I hope you are not serious. It does not matter how badly they have acted, we must maintain our dignity and our honour through upholding what is truly "Canadian". We cannot bring change to a country if we resort to using the same types of methods used before the intervention. If we lower ourselves to fighting on their level, then they have already won. We must take the high ground and do what is right. Not to be motivated by anger or hatred, by vengeance or vendetta. Just because they do unto us or those we swear to protect, does not give us the right to do the same unto them. If guilty, they should be brought to justice and punished. But with appropriate, civilized methods. Not with barbarism. That is what Canada was founded on, and that's what the men and women of the Canadian Forces swear to uphold every day.

Like I said, I hope you are not serious. Otherwise you may have just a sick and twisted mind as the Taliban you claim to hate so much.

Agreed,

Whether or not the person in question was venting, he was rightfully so in making sure people understood that those sort of ideas are not progressive. Furthermore, there is a difference between venting about wishing to punch something, and for wishing slow and painful death. Finally, as a matter of fact no my first reaction is not violence on someone. Just because some of you wish violence as an instant reaction does not mean that is the norm.

-C/D
 
Cognitive-Dissonance said:
Agreed,

Whether or not the person in question was venting, he was rightfully so in making sure people understood that those sort of ideas are not progressive. Furthermore, there is a difference between venting about wishing to punch something, and for wishing slow and painful death. Finally, as a matter of fact no my first reaction is not violence on someone. Just because some of you wish violence as an instant reaction does not mean that is the norm.

-C/D

WHATEVER ...  ::) this has been rebutted, and my post stands.  If you don't like it... TFB.
 
Seems like C/D likes to preach in more than one thread.  Mr Perfect speaks out here as well.  Apparantly he's been trained by Judge Judy or something.

 
Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Ottawa Citizen

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=524c0b8c-5f78-404b-a7c6-a4fea1df7f7b

Petrolekas and Capstick . We must not forget these girls

Cowardly attack on a group of schoolgirls should galvanize our nation to help defeat extremism in Afghanistan

George Petrolekas and Mike Capstick, Citizen Special
Published: Friday, November 21, 2008

Last week, two men with malicious purpose aimed a stream of acid at the eyes and faces of a group of girls, as young as 14, whose only offence was a wish to go to school.

And as punishment, at least two of those girls will never see the light of day again; their friends and countless hundreds of other little girls equally condemned to a lesser life as the very fear of venturing outside their homes denies them a future as surely as the acid in the eyes has accomplished. And to that end it is no different than the torching of schools, the beheading of teachers and the intimidation of parents.

As a friend living in Kandahar said the other day by phone, "what brave men are these to throw acid at little girls?"

Ghastly, horrific, revolting, shocking, nauseating; not even this lexicon of despair can remotely begin to describe the ravaged humanity that we all must feel as the evil incarnate face of the extremists is yet again revealed in Kandahar, in challenge to us all. We are silent witnesses of an unfathomable nightmare; watching broadcast images of their small bodies quivering in pain as doctors attempted to flush their eyes.

How do we react as a nation?

In the face of such a challenge, we can avert our eyes so that we do not have to face the horror of what we see or we can face it squarely with the resolve that such evil must not triumph.

John F. Kennedy, quoting Edmund Burke, galvanized a nation with the appeal that "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." It is the opposite of what we are told by so many whose mantra has become "there is no military solution to this conflict," with the conclusion that the hope of something better must be surrendered and bartered for a modicum of security no matter what price it imposes.

But that is not quite true. Certainly, in present circumstances there is no military solution, but it is a circumstance we have permitted to occur. Whether because Afghanistan is so far away, or after 30 years of war is only a step beyond a medieval level of existence, the international community has provided only a small percentage of the effort it expended in Kosovo, Bosnia, Haiti, Somalia and Iraq. It is no wonder that there is no military solution available. We took it off the table.

And obscured in all this discussion is that north and west of the Hindu Kush, while imperfect, daily life endures, resisting the metaphor that Kandahar has become for the rest of the country. And most importantly, the vast majority of Afghans have no desire to return to Taliban times and in fact live in terror at the possibility. As seductively simple as appeasement is to western eyes, Afghans could only view it as abandonment.

As the immediate sense of horror passes, this incident will predictably and inevitably fade into yet another footnote of this conflict. It will be rationalized beyond logic into that grey netherworld that occupies the space between the clarity of what is right and what is wrong. Some will claim that these atrocities alone do not justify our presence, or they will give credence to the notion that violence is a response to the accidental carnage of our own bombs, or that this society is only resisting the imposition of western values. This would be like siding with the serial killer who blames his upbringing for having killed a dozen people. We don't accept that here, why would we accept that there?

But as has occurred time and time again, our Taliban foe has wantonly killed innocents. And while our supposedly smart bombs sometimes cause carnage, as often as not it is because the Taliban have hidden themselves behind the human shield of weddings and family gatherings, as much of a war crime as is their deliberate targeting of civilians. And it is all to the same end; what they cannot gain in public support they wrench away with the legitimacy of a gun. This day, girls won't go to school for fear, not because they decided they don't belong there, but because misogynist terrorists have made the decision for them.

And so, in the years that we have left before we withdraw, we must not forget these little girls. There will be an election next year and we should do everything in our power to ensure that Afghans have the chance to find their own voice, free of oppression, threat or intimidation. Our development effort must be focused on providing security of persons, their institutions, their schools, their means of life such as water, food and power. In short, we must do everything that we can to offer Kandahar is the chance for their own "peace, order and good government."

This affront to humanity happened on the same day that one of the authors of this article celebrated the birth of his first granddaughter. For the sake of another generation we must not forget these girls, as their now unseeing eyes exhort us to do more; we cannot let our granddaughters conclude that we stood about and did nothing and that by doing so, surrendered our own humanity.

Colonel (Ret'd.) Mike Capstick was the first commander of the Strategic Advisory Team-Afghanistan in 2005-'06 and worked in Kabul as a civilian last summer. He is an associate at the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary.

George Petrolekas was involved in the Afghan mission from 2003 to 2007, representing Canada at NATO's operational headquarters in Afghanistan. The opinions expressed are solely those of the authors.
 
Lets hope for a fair and transparent trial so that those that are guilty are dealt the appropriate way.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081125/world/afghanistan
By Noor Khan, The Associated Press

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - Afghan police have arrested 10 Taliban militants allegedly involved in an acid attack against 15 girls and teachers walking to school in southern Afghanistan, a provincial governor said Tuesday.

"Several" of the arrested militants have confessed to taking part in the attack earlier this month, said Kandahar Gov. Rahmatullah Raufi. He declined to say exactly how many had confessed.
High-ranking Taliban fighters paid the militants a total of $2,000 to carry out the attack, Raufi said. The attackers came from Pakistan but were Afghan nationals, said Doud Doud, an Interior Ministry official.

The attackers squirted acid from water bottles onto three groups of students and teachers walking to school in Kandahar city on Nov. 12. Several girls suffered burns to the face and were hospitalized. One teenager couldn't open her eyes days after the attack, which sparked condemnation from around the world.
Afghanistan's government called the attack "un-Islamic," while the UN labelled it "a hideous crime." U.S. first lady Laura Bush decried it as cowardly.
Raufi said the suspects will be tried in open court after the investigation is completed.

One of the victims of the attack, a teacher named Nuskaal who was burned through her burqa, called Tuesday for harsh punishment.
"If these people are found guilty, the government should throw the same acid on these criminals. After that they should be hanged," said Nuskaal, who like many Afghans goes by one name.
President Hamid Karzai earlier this month called for a public execution of the perpetrators.

Kandahar is the spiritual birthplace of the Taliban regime, the hard-line Islamists who ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001, and one of Afghanistan's most conservative regions, a place where women rarely venture far from home.
Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi on Tuesday denied that Taliban militants were involved in the attack.

Girls were banned from schools under Taliban rule, and women were only allowed to leave the house wearing a body-hiding burqa and accompanied by a male family member.
The country has made a major push to improve access to education for girls since the Taliban's ouster. Fewer than one million Afghan children - mostly boys - attended school under Taliban rule. Roughly six million Afghan children, including two million girls, attend school today.

But many conservative families still keep their girls at home.
Raufi said girls attending Mirwais Mena girls' school didn't attend class for three days after the attack, but have since returned.
Kandahar province's schools serve 110,000 students at 232 schools, Raufi said. But only 10 of the 232 are for girls. Some 26,000 girls go to school, he said.

Arsonists have repeatedly attacked girls' schools and gunmen killed two students walking outside a girls' school in central Logar province last year. UNICEF says there were 236 school-related attacks in Afghanistan in 2007.
The Afghan government has also accused the Taliban of attacking schools in an attempt to force teenage boys into the Islamic militia.

Separately, the U.S. military said its troops killed six militants and detained 12 others in two operations in eastern Afghanistan on Monday. The operations targeted militants associated with the warlords Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Jalaludin Haqqani, the statement from the U.S. military said.

Elsewhere, the country's intelligence agency said it has arrested four people, including three religious leaders and a youth, for alleged involvement in suicide and other bomb attacks in northern Kunduz province.

The ring was broken up after a failed bombing mission in the province earlier this year when the would-be bomber failed to properly detonate his explosives, the agency said in a statement Tuesday.
 
If those mens are really the guilty one I can just hope they get what they deserve.  Not like in some country where that would end up with them just receiving a little slap on the hand.  I'm not for the death penalty but such action almost make reconsider...
 
Punishment fits the crime?


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081125/world/afghanistan

By Noor Khan And Jason Straziuso, The Associated Press

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - A 23-year-old teacher, burned in an acid attack on 15 schoolgirls and instructors, wants the Afghan government to throw acid on her attackers and then hang them.

Kandahar's governor said Tuesday authorities had arrested 10 alleged Taliban militants for the Nov. 12 attack in the southern city and several confessed to taking part.

Gov. Rahmatullah Raufi said the men would be tried in open court, a pledge that pleased Nuskaal, a first-year math teacher who suffered acid burns on her shoulders.

"Those girls were simply going to school to get an education," said Nuskaal, who like many Afghans goes by one name.

"My parents told me that security isn't good enough and that they were worried about me teaching. But I told my parents I won't stop teaching."

"I'm not afraid."

After the attack, President Hamid Karzai called for the perpetrators to be executed in public. Nuskaal said the attackers should have acid thrown on them first.

Men riding motorbikes squirted acid from water bottles onto three groups of students and teachers walking to school. Several girls suffered burned faces and were taken to hospital. One teenager couldn't open her eyes for days after the attack, which sparked condemnation around the world.

Afghanistan's government called the attack "un-Islamic," while the United Nations labelled it "a hideous crime."

The government charged Tuesday that high-ranking Taliban fighters paid the suspects a total of $2,000 to carry out the attack. The assailants came from Pakistan but were Afghan nationals, said Doud Doud, an Interior Ministry official.

Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi denied Tuesday that any of the group's members were involved.

Kandahar province is the spiritual birthplace of the Taliban Islamic militiamen who ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001 and are now waging an insurgency against Karzai. The area is one of Afghanistan's most conservative, a place where women rarely venture far from home.

Islamic extremists have attacked many schools to discourage girls from getting an education. Raufi, the governor, said students at the Mirwais Mena girls school didn't return to class for three days after the acid attack.

Girls were banned from schools under Taliban rule and women could leave their homes only if they were clad in a body-hiding burqa and accompanied by a male relative.

Afghanistan has made a major push to improve access to education for girls since a U.S.-led offensive ousted the Taliban following the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attack on the United States.

Fewer than one million Afghan children - mostly boys - attended school under Taliban rule. Now, roughly six million do, including two million girls.

But many conservative families still keep girls at home.

Kandahar province's 232 schools serve 110,000 students but only 26,000 are girls, the governor said. There are just 10 schools solely for girls, Raufi added.

Arsonists have repeatedly attacked girls schools across the country. Attackers burned down a girls' school in the northwestern province Faryab on Sunday, said Gen. Kalil Andrabi, the provincial police chief.

Gunmen even killed two students outside a girls' school in central Logar province in 2007, one of 236 attacks involving Afghan schools UNICEF recorded that year.

The Afghan government has also accused the Taliban of attacking schools in an attempt to force teenage boys to join the Islamic militia.

In other developments, the U.S. military said Tuesday its troops killed six militants and detained 12 others in two operations in eastern Afghanistan on Monday. The operations targeted militants associated with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Jalaludin Haqqani, the statement said.

Afghanistan's intelligence agency said it arrested four people, including three religious leaders and a youth, for alleged involvement in suicide and other bomb attacks in northern Kunduz province. The ring was tracked down after a failed attack earlier this year, when the would-be bomber failed to properly detonate his explosives, the agency said.
 
From a personal perspective, I say that, if they are found to be guilty.... Spray their faces with acid - blind them and release them into the general public to fend for themselves - as they intended for their victims

An eye for an eye,
A tooth for a tooth........
 
geo said:
From a personal perspective, I say that, if they are found to be guilty.... Spray their faces with acid - blind them and release them into the general public to fend for themselves - as they intended for their victims

An eye for an eye,
A tooth for a tooth........
hear hear.  but only after "due process" of course.....
 
would hate to offend the whingers that may be in the audience...
 
The afghan people will do what they wish with them and being culturally sensitive, I know I will not be dissatisfied with the sentence, should the accused be found guilty. >:D
 
Iranian court sentences man to be blinded by acid
Updated Thu. Nov. 27 2008 7:52 AM ET

The Associated Press

TEHRAN, Iran -- Iranian newspapers say a court has sentenced a man who blinded a woman with acid also to be blinded with acid under the country's Islamic law.

Thursday's reports in several newspapers, including the Kargozaran, say 27-year-old Majid confessed to attacking Ameneh Bahrami in 2004 to dissuade anyone from marrying the woman he loved.

Wednesday's ruling was issued based on the Islamic law system of "qisas," or eye for an eye retribution.

The reports say Ameneh asked the court to sentence Majid, who was only identified by his first name, to be blinded by acid to prevent similar attacks on other women. Majid is allowed to appeal the verdict.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081127/iran_acid_081127/20081127?hub=World


I know that this is Iran and wasn't the same reasons for throwing the acid, but, I think he'll be recieving the punishment that most would want for the cowards in Afghanistan.



 
;D
OK now the NDP will decry the punishment. I didn't hear too many complaints from the NDP and its mouthpiece when the attacks on the schoolkids took place.
 
OldSolduer said:
;D
OK now the NDP will decry the punishment. I didn't hear too many complaints from the NDP and its mouthpiece when the attacks on the schoolkids took place.

You got that right!  I bet the sound of all the feathers rustling as left wings beat mightily in indignation with whinging crys of protest will be deafening.

EW, you too are right on the money.  My wife lived many years under Islamic law and a military dictatorship.  She often said there would be things that would and could be done that I would approve of....  I guess she was right. 

Hope this thug loses his appeal.
 
Heh.... something I can agree on.

The Ayatolah is a friend ???

Oh well -  the enemy of your enemy is ..... not so much an enemy - for the time being
 
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