Second Language Training ( SLT )

[Infanteer]

PS: I convinced domestic 9er to put her child into French Immersion and the rest will follow, so there. 

 

[Acorn]

Languages other than the two official ones ARE taken into account for potential. There is no hard formula as there is with the officials though. Understandable.

The interesting thing is that it appears that Potential will have greater weight for promotion than the current 60/40 tech skill/potential ratio. Which seems to make sense to me, as does the idea of increasing requirements for second official language ability with increasing rank.

Acorn

 

[honestyrules]

I'm a quebecer myself, and i agree with Bruce on that law. This is a bad thing. I"m glad that i joined the army ,so now it doesn't apply to me anymore. I've been able to put my little one in a 100% english school. She'll be glad i did when she'll grow up....

 

[MdB]

I'm failing to see how you think your linguistic shortcomings make you any less "Canadian" or if anyone implied that.

This is a funny one!! ;D We used to say here in Quebec that Chretien wasn't proficient in english nor french!! Hehe, this is shortcomings...

No, no Bruce, I wasn't targeting what you said, I was only putting my thoughts on how we relate Language and being Canadian.

If I was born in BC and was raised in a French household, would I be a Francophone or a French Speaking Canadian?   Is there something about the mythical line that surrounds the Belle Province that changes someone's status based upon what their mother tongue is?

Coming from Quebec, I relate 'extensively' to my province since there's a language diffence moreover. So you're born in Alberta, Albertan, Ontario, Ontarian, and so on...

I think for the language, you're mother tongue (and household when you were raised) indicates the roots, be it english, french, german, etc.   But if you can't relate to it anymore, nor speak, forget it, you're were 'insert tongue-one...' and not anymore. It's not based on the province you come from. You were born in Alberta and learn french as mother tongue and speaks very well english (of course), you're Franco-Albertan if you use the language. If you can relate to the language as a certain identity, then why would it be more complicated than that?

Remember Chantal Hébert? She's colomnist at the Star. Lot of people think she's québécoise. But she's born in Ontario and is Franco-Ontarian, only her parents are from Quebec. Now she lives in Québec, wanted to know her roots, but always related to herself as Franco-Ontarian.

2.   On the flipside, if going with one tongue is too divisive, then I fully support Bilingualism in all schools (English to the French, French to the English) - as we will no longer have to worry about printing forms in both languages, having French/English military units, or signage; any Canadian should be able to pick either up and figure it out.

Here I disagree. You can't eliminate a language from forms or any other official communications. I would mean to exclude this language. Maybe I don't understand the point. As far as I know, Francophones are more bilingual (in the proportion of 47%) than Englos (9% says themselves as bilingual), which is normal anyway. Francophones of North America are in an ocean of Englos... really, not that much of a challenge to learn it. The thing is that it's important for a language health to keep it 'live', in all sorts of communication. You can't say you're a whatever-speaker if you don't use the language. Just a litteral reality.

Every Canadian, regardless of heritage, should be able to speak both English and French.   Sure, some may argue that they have no need to learn it in Alberta, but perhaps something like this would do wonders in getting the French language out of Fortress Quebec and into mainstream Canadian (meaning across Canada) culture where it should be if we are to be a truely bilingual nation.

This is good!! That would be so much for me. It doesn't hinder any nationalism based on language, rather the other way around, it promotes it and would makes Canada stronger as its people understand what the other says and how he tends to think, would be so a great drive for unity and cohesion of Canada.

I'm a quebecer myself, and i agree with Bruce on that law. This is a bad thing. I"m glad that i joined the army ,so now it doesn't apply to me anymore. I've been able to put my little one in a 100% english school. She'll be glad i did when she'll grow up....

Even though I'm not bilingual myself, I can do really more than communicate in English and I didn't need any 100% english school to achieve that. Your results will be so much good as the effort you put in.

Cheers all,

Edited for quote problems.

 

[GINge!]

Quote,
...so because you have never bothered to push yourself, that made it useless to all...........and what more relevant thing would you require?
Another nice frame on your wall?

....there are examples here of those who have used it, I have used it....maybe you should try a little harder?

Read what I said again. My apologies if you are unfamiliar with the SL scoring system. To reiterate, I pushed myself fairly hard to go from speaking no French whatsoever to become almost fluent. Admittedly, I do not go looking for reasons to converse French just to demonstrate my skills and my embracing of the CF's B&B policy. I wrote earlier in this thread, there has not been much requirement to do so, YMMV.

As to what could be a more relevant requirment than spending a year learning a skill I rarely use? I suppose I could have been on a year long tour instead, doing my job. Perhaps I could have done a year long military skills course? Or filled a Pri-1 manning position that is so desperately needed somewhere. With respect to your "frames on the wall" envy, I have only a calendar and a telephone, so you can stuff that sort of comment.

Its obvious you are getting more use out of it than I & nothing we write is going to change each others opinions.

Cheers.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
Read what I said again. My apologies if you are unfamiliar with the SL scoring system. To reiterate, I pushed myself fairly hard to go from speaking no French whatsoever to become almost fluent. Admittedly, I do not go looking for reasons to converse French just to demonstrate my skills and my embracing of the CF's B&B policy. I wrote earlier in this thread, there has not been much requirement to do so, YMMV.

If it has changed since I did my French course in 1985 in Pet. than no I am not familiar with it, if it hasn't ,then yes I am. I guess the difference could be I really wanted to learn the language and volunteered for the course.[and missed a jammy tour in Cypress] and went out of my way [and still do] to find a use for my learned skills.[some posters in the French forum enjoy correcting my posts via PM, you know who you are ]  however I could see how someone who HAS to take the course might not be as enthused as I was.

Infanteer,
....again I don't hang signs[boxes] on anybody[exept Canadian] but if I did have to I would say my children are Franco-Ontarian. Congrats on putting the young un' into French-immersion, everyone should at that age, kids are like sponges they suck stuff up and don't even know it.

 

[Infanteer]

....again I don't hang signs[boxes] on anybody[exept Canadian] but if I did have to I would say my children are Franco-Ontarian. Congrats on putting the young un' into French-immersion, everyone should at that age, kids are like sponges they suck stuff up and don't even know it.

Neither do I Bruce - the problem is that various levels of Government seem to; I think that is the point of contention I'm getting at.

 

[taz_202]

My husband has just started SLT in st.jean and we are having difficulties in finding an apartment, he says most are year long leases and that apartments in Quebec rarely come with appliances.  Can anyone who has been in this situtaion in st jean please give any suggestions or advice to our dilemma.  Are there any PMQ's available?  I also heard that there are single rooms available at the Mega for short term visits.

Thanks for the help.

 

[aesop081]

There are suites in the blue sector of the mega that you can have for $20 per night.   They are fairly decent, i have stayed in them a few times.   It is normal in quebec for appartments not to include apliances, i have lived there alot and it has always been this way.   The PMQs for all the locations in the Montreal area are located in St-Hubert ( the old FMC hq) not too sure on availability.   If your husband is POSTED to St-Jean, the military pays for the penalties involved in breaking a lease, you would have to discuss the situation with the local IRP office.

 

[Bograt]

Hello my dear,

ASEOP, SLT is not considered a post. Remarkable that the last few classes of BOTP were about Quality of Life- then they tell you that you must stay in St. Jean for an additional 8 months. In our serials case, that is 11 months without a post away from family.

I think your hubby has found a place. Details coming soon.

 

[Uberman]

I've tried looking on the net for info on St. Jean however not getting alot of useful stuff. How big is it, is there anything to do, or are you limited to taking off to Montreal - heh, in other words is it like Wainwright - ahhh the Wainwright Hotel and Rustlers.

 

[Bograt]

If you are asking what the housing market is like in St. Jean, my response is "not sure." A couple of the guys found places in Montreal to rent while they are doing SLT. Some others have found places in town. Based on what I have heard, it is a bit a pain- given the time restrictions, language barrier, and the general dislike the town has for the military.

St. Jean is a bout 82K people. It was voted most "awful" , by Places to Live magazine.

 

[MdB]

I've tried looking on the net for info on St. Jean however not getting alot of useful stuff. How big is it, is there anything to do, or are you limited to taking off to Montreal - heh, in other words is it like Wainwright - ahhh the Wainwright Hotel and Rustlers.

Go take a look here, you'll find at least the city's website. For you to know, St. Jean is 45 mins from Montreal: really, really nearer from Montreal than Wainwright from Edmonton. There's plenty to do in St. Jean, there's plenty of nature and the river. If you have a car, the countryside in that area worth pretty much to take a look.

If you are asking what the housing market is like in St. Jean, my response is "not sure." A couple of the guys found places in Montreal to rent while they are doing SLT. Some others have found places in town. Based on what I have heard, it is a bit a pain- given the time restrictions, language barrier, and the general dislike the town has for the military.

I don't know about the renting situation in St. Jean, but you don't have to go search as far as Montreal to find something. Especially, if you have a car, there's mid-size cities around and it's really worth searching for something there. Montreal area is still expensive, by Quebec standards.

And yeah, most of renting contract are on yearly base or monthly base. Depends who rents. I guess people there are used to see cadets and recruits, wouldn't be that a problem... I guess. Still, never been there a as cadet, so I really don't know.

 

[Iliyana]

There are some apartments on Morel St in St-Jean which are very nice. The owner will consider short-term leases and loves dealing with military personel. We had a 6 month lease when we there.

 

[jerrold]

I would like to shorten the time spent at St. Jean for second language training.  I have taken French throughout secondary and post-secondary school.  During the next 4-5 months I will study the language to prepare.  Is there any way to determine my current functional level (for Canadian Forces purposes)?  Anything online that would give somehwat of an idea of where I stand?  Thought I would post, just in case others had the same question and found something.

 

[Inch]

I highly doubt your time will be shortened. If your french is really good, you may get tested when you get there and get exempt. If it's not, you'll have to do the whole 8 months. Trust me, I tried to get out of there too after 6 months but they made me stay the entire 8 months.

 

[George Wallace]

You can do the CF Language testing and if you are deemed completely bilingual you may be exempted, if not you, as Inch said will have to do the time.  The Trg System is timed so that you do a crse and then move on to another.  If you don't do this crse, you may find yourself in limbo with your thumb up your a*** for eight months waiting for the next of your crses to start. 

Another point is that if you do get exempted and are lucky enough to be loaded on your next crse with a previous string of enrollies, you will be the FNG and have to become a member of a new group all over again.  Sometimes it is better to stay with your "Coursemates" through all your training, rather than being an unknown element in a group that has been together for a long time.

You may also find that although you think you are bilingual, you may fail the test, due to technical terms that are used in the Gov't but not in everyday speech and writing.  It surely doesn't hurt to do the test.

 

[jerrold]

Thanks for the info.  The scenario presented at the recruiting centre was somewhat different.  They advised that I prepare for the test and my time would likely be shortened.  However, as I have seen on this site, sometimes recruiting information does not totally match with others' experience.  Nothing against the recruiters, however, I am sure that those that go through the process likely have a better idea about some issues.  Sitting on my butt for months would not be desirable.  My main concern is the length of time away from family.  I live in Alberta and I applied for Logistics.  For Basic and second language training, I would be gone for one year.  After that, it could be a year or more again.  I noticed on another thread that someone in Logistics had a move paid for when they went to Borden.  Has anyone else?  Or am I pretty much SOL and left to my own devices to get my family close?  I can understand being away for the first year, however, the time thereafter seems excessive.  I'm not trying to whine here, however, the total time away does seem a bit excessive for there not to be any support.  Again, thanks for the info. re. second language training.

 

[Bograt]

I highly doubt your time will be shortened. If your french is really good, you may get tested when you get there and get exempt. If it's not, you'll have to do the whole 8 months. Trust me, I tried to get out of there too after 6 months but they made me stay the entire 8 months.

Finally an opportunity to rebut something Inch says.

If you are already proficient in the language, you will be tested. If you do not get your required profile you will have to go to SLT. At the beginning of SLT you are slotted into a class of your level. The course is broken into a series of modules. It is possible to be start at module 5 or 8 and endure only 2-3 months before getting an opportunity to do the language test again.

My best advice to you would be to find a francophone girlfriend and hide away in some northern Quebec town for the next 4 months.

 

[Inch]

Finally an opportunity to rebut something Inch says.

If you are already proficient in the language, you will be tested. If you do not get your required profile you will have to go to SLT. At the beginning of SLT you are slotted into a class of your level. The course is broken into a series of modules. It is possible to be start at module 5 or 8 and endure only 2-3 months before getting an opportunity to do the language test again.

My best advice to you would be to find a francophone girlfriend and hide away in some northern Quebec town for the next 4 months.

When I was there people started on Mod 8 but still did the full 8 months, ending on about mod 23 or something to that effect. I didn't mention it before, but there are 10 week courses that are run in the summer for CivU ROTP types, but I still stand by my info in that if you're loaded on an 8 month course, you're staying for the full 8 months. I don't know of anyone that got a shorter course in the 8 months that I spent there.