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Seniors Benefits Discussion- split from Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

Excuses to distract from older folks having a disproportionate portion of both income and wealth. To a level that is actually ahistoric for most developed societies around the world. It's not just Canada.
Heh. Fundamentals of personal finance unfolding over a lifetime are "excuses"? Read the article and absorb the thought experiment. A complete levelling of the most important parts of the playing field would still result in massive disparity between age groups. Of course the result is ahistoric; for most of history, modern finance was unknown.
 
It isn't the grandparents that are starving the kids: its you (that is the current working group) who are doing so by insisting on being pampered by the state and paying to assuage your guilt over everything from rain forests through to the treatment of polar bears at the dump in Churchill instead of taking responsibility for this your world. We gave it to you in not too bad a shape back around and just before the turn of the century and you have screwed it up royally. You go out and buy your quad., your boat, your F150 and your other toys but expect the government (me) to pay for your children's daycare, their breakfast and, at least in Toronto, now their lunch as well. Since the well is going dry you push to remove benefits from your grandparents or stick them in homes so you can cash in on the house that they paid for, dollar by dollar. The seniors have had very little to do with the price of housing being what it is. In fact, many seniors that I know have paid their grandkids down payments or are contributing to the rent. So until you are ready to cash in your toys to help the kids and they are your kids, not your parents', kindly drop it.

Grandparents have money because they invested instead of buying. I am earning well above average on my investments: not any pension plan and I am not an exceptional investor; just followed sensible advise although it took a bit of time and a lot of nail biting before I wised up.

I miss the WW2 men I worked with.

They could LIFT .

They didn't get PTSD . They gave it to whiners .




 
This pull-up the ladder behind you mentality is why so many young people despise boomers. Boomers inherited a world built by the Greatest Generation and oh boy boomers sure settled down to enjoy it. Enforced scarcity NIMBYism in the 70s and 80s is the root of many of our problems and then old people have the fucking audacity to cry about increasing property taxes and demanding tax freezes; "oh no, your wealth has gone up too much"
Generations younger than the Boomers are demonstrating a propensity to vote for the parties which support policies which promote scarcity (environmentalism, anti-capitalism) and the slow strangulation of an ever-increasing burden of public spending (new social spending programs, massive increases in public payroll). An increasing welfare state is not a solution. Younger generations are objectively, by their political choices, creating worse conditions than the Boomers ever did.
 
True
But at the same time those same houses were around 1-1,200sq ft with either no garage or a 1 car garage with maybe 1 to 1.5 bath with an unfinished basement that Dad slowly over time as money/resources became available finished by himself and maybe with the help of some buddies that he in turned helped finished theirs.
Describes almost every home newly constructed (1971-73) in the semi-rural suburb in which I grew up, but substitute carport for garage. Rectangular boxes. No designer fixtures, wall or floor coverings, or furnishings. Land line telephony, broadcast or cable TV, no computers. Print media and a telephone for your employment searches.

The cost of real estate is still the one problem facing generations younger than Boomers. Everything else is, relatively speaking, gravy. There is one transfer program distorting public spending on behalf of seniors that could stand review and reform - OAS, which has been around for decades. Much of the new spending since then benefits younger generations.

If housing prices continue to correct downwards and OAS is reformed (more stringent means testing), older generations will still benefit from lifetime asset accumulation.
 
Which cant be built anymore in many many places because of NIMBY regulations adopted in the 70s-80s. Cant have a starter home bringing down local property values right?
I'm not certain that is the case where I live in Burlington. People would be very happy if this was the case.

Instead what's occurring is houses (just like mine) that were built in the mid 60's on nice 65-75ft wide lots, where the original by-laws stated that the house could not be built to within 10% of the width of the lot - meaning a 7.5ft distance from the wall of the house to the property line, on both sides, are being ripped down and the new bylaw says that the house can be within 1m (3.3ft) of the property line and a massive 2,500-3,000sq ft house is built on the lot. Homes are going from side and backsplits around 1,300-1,500sq with 8ft ceilings to 2 story 3,000sq ft with 10-11ft ceilings, with only 1m from either side of the property line. Where there was 15ft between houses there is now 6.6ft.

I have a pool in my backyard, we bought off the original homeowners who built the house in 1965. We bought the house in 2009 from them. During their 44yr ownership they put a pool in themselves (hand dug it....) back in 1976 and they finished the basement themselves (its a 4 lvl side split) and converted the 1/2ba on the 3rd floor into a full 3p piece bath. When I'm in my inground pool none of my neighbours can see me in the pool, except 1 neighbour from their master bedroom when I use the ladder to get into the pool. Once I'm in the pool and take 1 step they can no longer see me. BUT, if any of them sell their homes and a developer buys it and tears it down its game over for my total privacy in my backyard oasis.

Perfectly fine houses that are well maintained and well upgraded are being torn down throughout my neighbourhood because the younger generation don't want these style of homes - they want double the size of the house with 2 to 3 car garages and their 10ft ceilings and virtually no backyards because they are inside on their computers and phones all evening and weekend long. Perfectly fine homes are selling for 1.2 - 1.4 million dollars so they can be demolished, doubled in sized and then sold for 2.6-3.3m.

What could be done - but won't because of greed - is not allowing this to occur by the city and what could be allowed is the buying up for 2 adjacent homes that combined would be 140-150ft in width, the tearing down of both of them and then the rebuilding of 3 homes on 50ft wide lots with the size being 1,300 sq ft, again side or backsplit houses. The builder pays 2.3-2.4m for the 2 homes and then sells the 3 homes for 1.3 - 1.4m. The builder could still clear 1/2m in profit when its over and done. What you've done is kept the character of the neighbourhood the same, turned what was 2 homes into 3 homes and kept the prices for the new homes comparable to the exist prices of the neighbourhood. Is 1.3m still alot of money - 100% it is, but its the 'entry point' here as an example. Similar things could be done elsewhere at a lessor cost.
 
Which cant be built anymore in many many places because of NIMBY regulations adopted in the 70s-80s. Cant have a starter home bringing down local property values right?
That's not the problem at all. One problem is that builders prefer to put the maximum allowable house on a property to maximize their subsequent profit. Another problem is that lots of people - more than just the top decile or quintile - have well-compensated secure employment that enables them to become landlords, and their speculation and rental property improvements push up the cost of existing housing. These things are done to meet demand, because so many people don't want a starter home - they want, at 30, what their parents had at 50.
 
If housing prices continue to correct downwards and OAS is reformed (more stringent means testing), older generations will still benefit from lifetime asset accumulation.
Is there something wrong with 'benefitting from lifetime asset accumulation'?

What's the point of working your whole life - and the saving, investing, forgoing without, if in the end there is no accumulation?

If an average person at age 22 invested 100$/month or 3$ a day..... from the age of 22 until the age of 65 - and DIDN'T save a single other penny, nothing at all - and invested that money into the S&P500 ETF they would have between 450,000$ and 1,300,000$ depending on if they averaged 8% per year return or the historical 11.3% return. The 11.3% historical return is based on the returns from 1970 until now - a 56yr track record.

This is extremely doable for the vast majority of CDN's (75+%), its a question of discipline and forgoing 'instant' gratification. Think of this as being the 'marshmallow' experiment but for adults.

 
Is there something wrong with 'benefitting from lifetime asset accumulation'?
Nothing at all. It's desirable.

Too many people mischaracterize inter-generational asset accumulation as a problem, often tagging some political policy axe-grinding (ie. in Canada, OAS) onto the discussion. Asset accumulation is a feature, not a bug.

The points I re-emphasize are:
  • There's only one real market problem - housing - which is partly the fault of younger generations and their own behaviours anyways (desires and voting habits) and it is far from sufficient to negate all the accumulating benefits passed onto each succeeding generation by (mostly technological) advances.
  • There's a foundational public policy problem - spending - which is obfuscated (deliberately or in ignorance, doesn't matter) by too much focus on only one specific major public policy problem (OAS).
 
Except your house was a much smaller multiple of income than those trying to buy today.
Very true, but we never anticipated that our house would increase in value 4.7 times, we hoped at best it would double. Nor did we do anything for that large valuation to happen. That was events outside of our control.
 
Very true, but we never anticipated that our house would increase in value 4.7 times, we hoped at best it would double. Nor did we do anything for that large valuation to happen. That was events outside of our control.
Also, we never planned on selling it unless we were changing jobs/cities. I haven't made a mortgage payment in close to 30 years. My son made his last mortgage payment 2 years ago on the same house they bought when they were first married 20 years ago. Greed coupled with the "gotta have it now" syndrome are amongst the main reasons people are going after the old folks and after reading some of the comments here it is time for some of you to have a reset on your values. Maybe those seniors you know or are related to don't help out but instead spend their money on themselves is because they don't think you deserve any help. Just saying.
 
What are you trying to say?

I'll be more specific.

I wasn't talking about World War 2.

I was referring to the men of that generation who joined Emergency Services in the post-war era.

We came under their watchful eyes in the early 1970's. They mentored us.

They / we did not have the luxury of Voluntary Occupational Transfer they have now.

Just had to get used to stress as best you could until retirement. There wasn't much point in discussing it.

Not to suggest the "Old Breed" were better , or worse , than the new . Just different.
 
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