QV
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Or..... re-roll to a force protection unit guarding hangars and other sensitive sites that seems to sorely needed right now.... but yes, agree with the premise.
Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
- Thread starter bossi
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Or..... re-roll to a force protection unit guarding hangars and other sensitive sites that seems to sorely needed right now.... but yes, agree with the premise.
OldSolduer
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Halifax Tar
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I'm not sure we'd get that much better from the RCMP. But that could be my NS disdain for the Mounties leaking out.
Jarnhamar
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That could be an option, I wouldn't make it the only avenue.
MP dropping their uniformed policing mandate would put an increased pressure on other police services, slight as it may be. If we're having the RCMP et el clean up our mess it's only right to offer them resources.
Forcing hundreds of CAF members to move into a few small locations would really smash their quality of life. At least with the RCMP/OT/VR options there could be room for CAF members to remain where they're living, at least for a time.
A lot of them already do through the EPO program. So yes they would take them.
The problem is numbers and manning. Ontario and Quebec RCMP types are federal. So those areas would have to be contracted out to the provincial police force. The rest of Canada is still contract policing but would still be a provincial issue.
That idea is messy. And would require a lot of structural changes. I don’t think the RCMP has any interest in fixing the CAFs problems when they have there own right now.
Just hand over jurisdiction to local authorities and call it a day.
RangerRay
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daftandbarmy
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Having seen (a little bit of) the work involved there's no way units could, or should, manage it.
daftandbarmy
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When you think 'MOD Plod', think 'gate guards'.
Definitely not a MP substitute...
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Similar at Navy base, and assuming they do general police type responses on DND property (like PMQs etc).
Interface with MPs is pretty limited, but was stuff like jetty access control during incidents on ships (fires floods etc), traffic enforcement, or people being shady in PMQs.
I think this particular incident is more gross misconduct by the specific MPs involved, and seems like it should be the kind of thing where at least the lead one get charged and released from the police force (based on the story) but not expecting there will be any kind of CM or anything coming out of this as the MPs self policing doesn't seem great.
Pretty embarassing this came out by the judge asking questions during pre-trial, so seems like the prosecutor also massively dropped the ball.
No idea if it was warranted, and the guy may in fact be a giant POS that should go to jail, but now he's only not going to go to jail, he's going to get paid. May also be innocent of any crime (and maybe just this isn't a good relationship) but still likely to get paid.
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I’d be curious to know what kind of training and mentorship MPs get in criminal investigations, and what kind of file volume they get compared to, say, a run of the mill plainclothes general investigations section in a civilian police service? How much opportunity do they have to get good at it? How much specialized training do they get in things like warrant writing, disclosure, interviewing, etc?
At the institutional level, how many MPOs started out actually working investigations at the coal face? Does the commissioned leadership have much real experience in working the nuts or bolts in criminal files, and are they able to lead their institution in such a way that they can recognize and meaningfully act on systemic deficiencies?
I’ve done a lot of courses now with people from a variety of different police services, and only encountered MPs once. I don’t get the sense they cross-pollinate with other police services for training or experience much…
At the institutional level, how many MPOs started out actually working investigations at the coal face? Does the commissioned leadership have much real experience in working the nuts or bolts in criminal files, and are they able to lead their institution in such a way that they can recognize and meaningfully act on systemic deficiencies?
I’ve done a lot of courses now with people from a variety of different police services, and only encountered MPs once. I don’t get the sense they cross-pollinate with other police services for training or experience much…
I could see that.
Booter
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I’m not sure what there current scheme is but CFNIS teams used to cover a large area, and some of it was remote supervision of files etc. but there file load was light. In that area I was anyways.
My experience with MPOs is they have no experience with investigations or police work in a broad sense. It is culturally (dated impression) avoided by MPOs as it’s not their work- that’s for NCOs and NCMs. Even in CFNIS.
I’ve come across MPs in most CPC courses and in places near bases you’ll see them on external agency courses. I have not been invited to any MP training however with the exception of their version of an active shooter course that was about a decade behind…
I think being an MP is a difficult and thankless. I can’t understand the idea of doing a career as one. Even if they are “real police”
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Just an idea; Nursing Officers and Surgeons spend a significant amount of time in civilian hospitals to get experience that the simply can't get in the military (unless deployed to an actual warzone with casualties). Perhaps the MPs that want to become investigators have to go to 2 years at a civilian investigative division?
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The ruling is quite damning.
108) Paradoxically, Sgt. Gauthier testified that she did not believe she had to document her phone calls and meetings with the complainant because “they were not relevant to the investigation.” Even if she held that belief sincerely, I am not prepared to trust her judgment as to what is or is not relevant to the investigation, given the way she conducted herself on this file.
...
126) The Crown properly concedes that the CFNIS investigators’ conduct in this case is offensive to societal notions of fair play and decency. The investigators adopted an untenable expansive interpretation of their jurisdiction that has no basis in law; refused to transfer the file to civilian authorities when specifically directed by the Provost Marshal to do so; shared confidential information about the allegations and the investigation with civilians (the complainant’s family law lawyer and the court-appointed psychologist); took exceptional steps, unique to this case, to support the complainant in matters unrelated to the investigation; involved themselves in the private family law dispute between the complainant and the Applicant, to the detriment of the Applicant; systematically failed to respect and comply with their duty to preserve and disclose relevant evidence; then tried to cover up, rationalize, and minimize their misconduct when they testified before me. As the Supreme Court stated in Babos, at para. 35, “there are limits on the type of conduct society will tolerate in the prosecution of offences.”
108) Paradoxically, Sgt. Gauthier testified that she did not believe she had to document her phone calls and meetings with the complainant because “they were not relevant to the investigation.” Even if she held that belief sincerely, I am not prepared to trust her judgment as to what is or is not relevant to the investigation, given the way she conducted herself on this file.
...
126) The Crown properly concedes that the CFNIS investigators’ conduct in this case is offensive to societal notions of fair play and decency. The investigators adopted an untenable expansive interpretation of their jurisdiction that has no basis in law; refused to transfer the file to civilian authorities when specifically directed by the Provost Marshal to do so; shared confidential information about the allegations and the investigation with civilians (the complainant’s family law lawyer and the court-appointed psychologist); took exceptional steps, unique to this case, to support the complainant in matters unrelated to the investigation; involved themselves in the private family law dispute between the complainant and the Applicant, to the detriment of the Applicant; systematically failed to respect and comply with their duty to preserve and disclose relevant evidence; then tried to cover up, rationalize, and minimize their misconduct when they testified before me. As the Supreme Court stated in Babos, at para. 35, “there are limits on the type of conduct society will tolerate in the prosecution of offences.”
Booter
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theyd spend months learning the systems and procedures of the local agency. And I did the experienced officer training for some MPs that lateraled over about 10 years ago…
Also, the appetite amongst police administrators for such things, outside of integrated specialty teams, is super low. There is significant organizational liability for such things now and so it’s had a cooling effect on expanding those
It’s not a bad idea but it has hurdles. Why would I stop my own peoples careers to take on extra guys from the MPs and fill spots? If they drive my cars who pays for the damage? The liability if they wipe a car out in an intersection?
Jarnhamar
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PSS postings to places like Thailand.
Jarnhamar
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Yikes. She's either flat out lying or been promoted to sgt while having zero experience as a MP (think postings to Wainwright, Shilo)
If I had to make a guess I'd say she suffered from major role creep and felt it was up to her to bring this evil man to justice, procedural fairness be damned. I have some guesses why too.
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